Garmin

[JimLor]

The following is my opinion, an opinion born of experience, but my opinion.

Here’s my story. Lorie has to go to Walter Reed for an appointment this morning. So, since I spent ~$700 on a Garmin 2720 w/MapSource software I thought, what the heck, I’ll invest 2 minutes and give Lorie the route to use on the GPS. I get the unit from the car, plug it in and connect it to the computer. I open MapSource. Go to “find†and select hospitals. Hmmmm, even thought Walter Reed opened its doors in 1909, Garmin Map Source has no idea that it’s a hospital, none, zippo, nada. So, I go to the internet and find the address. Go back to “find†and try and type in the address. Hmmmm, Garmin MapSource apparently doesn’t know that there is a Georgia Ave NW in Washington DC. Abraham Lincoln used to ride his horse up Georgia Ave to the Soldiers and Sailors home – but Garmin MapSource doesn’t recognize Georgia Ave. Of course there’s that nice little feature that doesn’t let you type and select the street you type – you get a list of “like†streets to pick from – yup, no Georgia Ave NW (hell, no Georgia Ave period) in Washington DC. So, I go to the unit and, amazingly, am able to type in the address (not listed as Walter Reed because remember, even though it has been opened for 98 years, Garmin MapSource has no friggin’ clue it’s there) and lo and behold it does find the address. I set the unit in the car and will be interested to see how it works for Lorie – frankly I don’t have much faith in this system to do anything but get me to places I already know how to get to. If fact, I took 2 minutes and used MapQuest on the internet (free) and printed out the route to Walter Reed for Lorie as a back-up.

I have a pretty long fuze, but once my patience is exhausted, it’s over. There are two company’s products I will never, never, never, friggin’ never buy again:

1. Any Chrysler product. I’ve owned 2 and both were/are the biggest piles of moving (sometimes), steaming crap I’ve ever owned. Yeah I know, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, well shame on me. We’re going to replace the latest pile of steaming crap and I was reading Consumer Reports the other night – the car issue. Gee, whaddya know, Chrysler makes piles of steaming crap – nice looking piles of steaming crap, but piles of steaming crap. Oh yeah, and what other car has just about the worst reliability, yup, Mercedes Benz – I guess merging with Chrysler worked out real well for them.

2. Yup, any Garmin product. This is absolutely the worst farkle I’ve thrown money away on. If you want to watch a map display while riding, it’s great and I think pretty accurate, unless of course the roads have changed in the last 10 years – yes, I have the latest update. If you want to watch the speed on the data page that’s fun too - but be careful of the max speed reading, yeah, I’ve had more than one whacko reading of 180+mph. But if you want something you can use to easily (easily) figure out how to get from point A to point B this isn’t it. The mapping software is absolutely the worst software I’ve used in 30 years. Intuitive – no. Well documented – no. Any mapping software you can get for free off the internet is better than this thing. I am just flabbergasted, yes flabbergasted, that in the year 2007 Garmin puts out software like MapSource. Maybe if I used this thing someplace I wasn’t familiar with I would be happy with it. Oh wait, I did use it in Charlotte, NC. I’ll cut to the chase and say that if Lorie hadn’t been a split second quicker than me I’d have thrown the damn thing out the window – literally, not figuratively. And then I’d have made an illegal U-turn and run over it, repeatedly.

Heck, this thing screws up going up and down the HOV here. Yes, I have the use HOV enabled. Which ever way I’m headed on the HOV it keeps telling me to make a U-turn and get on the road I’m on!!

Let me summarize – I don’t like my Garmin 2720 and I don’t like the MapSource software. I’m sorry I bought it and will never, ever buy another Garmin product. Whew, I feel a little better now. Thanks.

 

[bramfrank]

Hmm. Short fuse indeed.

My Mapsource (with V8 maps installed) doesn't list Walter Reed Army Medical Center as a point of interest (or as a hospital - could it be because it isn't a public institution?), but it certainly does list 6900 Georgia Ave NW, which is where it is located and the name shows up when you look at it on the map. Note that it IS a complex, so the address of the specific building you are looking for would probably help your wife get exactly where she is going.

One does need to use some common sense when using a navigator because they are pretty simplistic in their logic. Otherwise you can wind up driving off a cliff or through a 'road closed' barrier and into a river like I recently read some people had done. Feel free to use paper maps, but I have extremely good reasons for using real-time navigators in unfamiliar locations.

I used one of my units recently to drive from my home in Montreal, down to an apartment in Florida - completely without incident - and it took me to the hotel stops I had planned, found me gas late at night when most stations were closed and restaurants for the kids on Christmas day. And it saved me a few hundred miles of driving each way relative to what the auto club proposed.

If you do decide to toss your unit, I'll be more than happy to send you a box, preaddressed and with sufficient postage to allow you to ship your 2720 to me. A navigator is a terrible thing to waste.

PS: My 2000 Chrysler LHS has been rock solid except for a leaking water pump that was replaced under warranty.

 

[cota95]

Sorry to hear about your problems with Garmin. I've had my Quest for the last two years and am very pleased with the performance.

 

[FJRocket]

I was able to find Walter Reed Army Medical Center (what I assumed was the complex) by looking at the waypoint choices under "Walter Reed". I chose the "station" which appears to be a post office on the outer edge of the complex. I was also able to find Georgia ave NW on the east side of the complex. Granted, this was a real PIA to locate, but it worked. I have to cross check a LOT of POIs and addresses by googling them.

I have to agree that Garmin MapSource City Navigator is a difficult and clunky piece of software. And it ain't cheap. Hopefully they will make the workings of the software more intuitive and add POIs to the database. They probably get their POIs from Microsoft (the software looks a LOT like Ms Streets & Trips). I think MS only adds addresses to their POIs if you pay them. I sent them the address of a museum via email. They got back to me about 6 weeks later and said that would forward the information to that department. I'm not holding my breath.

The MapSource learning curve is very high and broad, and the information is somewhat difficult to find. Waypoints aren't that hard to add to the system, but they could be a lot easier. Hopefully future editions of the software will get improved, but again... I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Luke]

So how much do you want for your Garmin?

 

[Bounce]

actually garmin gets their mapping data from 3rd party gis companies just like M$ does.

the problem with S&T is that it doesn't talk to a gps (it only listens) so it won't upload routes.

there are a lot of people who use multiple packages (mapsources, delorme, etc.) not only to cross check but to get the best baseline route for their purposes (which may be one package one time and another under different conditions).

delorme has a good package (imo) and it compliments the city select (or other mapsourse databases). even using 3rd party route upload tools to get S&T to upload routes into the gps, it still has a tendancy to name roads with odd names like "SR2" when all the local signs are named things like "State Street".

Out of curriosity, is there a reason why you went with a "top shelf" model instead of testing the waters with a decent refurb model that comes with a full factory warranty, does only gps map/routing, and sells for half the price?

BTW: I did a search on my old-old version of Metroguide (mapsource database pre-2610). I didn't find a Walter Reed Hospital, but did find a Walter Reed Mini Mall Cafe by simply searching on "Walter Reed". On the map, just to the east (0.5 miles according to the distance tool) is US29 that you can hover your mouse over and see is also known as Georgia Ave NW and the address is displayed for where my mouse hovers. Moving up and down US29 I quickly found that 6900 is at about the intersection of Georgia Ave NW and Butternut St. NW. Hmmm...

I suspect it's more of a learning curve as to how the software works than anything else.

 

[JimLor]

Thanks to all for reading my rant and providing feedback. Interesting that some folks don’t seem to mind navigating an admittedly difficult program. Let me posit something – I “think” that younger folks who have grown up with computers all their lives see navigating an unfriendly program as a way of life. Old farts, like me, think that if we (I) pay $700 for a program and the latest technology, we shouldn’t have to perform unnatural acts or outsmart it to make it work correctly – it should be intuitive and “simple” to use thus making life easier and fulfilling the promise of computers. I thought that’s what computers were going to do for us – you know, make life easier so we could spend more time away from “work” enjoying ourselves - utopia. Anyone out there think that’s what has happened? I want this thing to serve me, I don’t want to wind up serving it! BTW, I’m reading “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” so excuse me if I “philosophize” a little (good read if you’re interested).

We did a warfighting experiment back in ’96 (no, 1996 not 1896) at 29 Palms. Set up a high level HQ with all the geewiz computers etc that were available at the time. You could sit in the CP and look at a screen and see where all of your units were located to 10 digit grid accuracy. One of the takeaways from this was a generational challenge or difference. Younger folks looked at the screen and took what was displayed as gospel. Older folks looked, ran it through their common sense/experience model, and then either accepted or questioned the data displayed. While “stuff” was going on, the younger folks tended to watch the screen and wait for information to get posted, the old farts were pro-active and sought out what they needed to know and checked the screen for the “latest” information when things quieted down.

I’m going to bite the bullet. I will sit down (once again) with the instructions provided with the unit, and do my level best to make a route for a 2-up EOM ride with directions (roads) provided by the good graces of Splbnk. If anyone out there would be willing to help me out – you know, like an outreach program, I’d appreciate a PM with a phone number I could call for help! I’m an intelligent human being and I can figure this out – the bottom line is that it pisses me off that I have to!

And by the way, if St Peter offers me a Chrysler when I get to the gates of heaven (Lorie’s gonna try and get me in), I’m going to refuse and go to hell instead!

 

[HaulinAshe]

Jim,

I'll trade you an Escort 8500 radar detector for it, even money!



Then all you have to do is plug it up and twist!

Sorry to hear about the GPS woes, really!

Jeff

 

[Geezer]

Well, I too have the 2720 and I also am not happy with the software, both on the unit itself and on the Mapsource program. However, it is still a very big improvement over driving around blindly on unfamiliar roads looking for a campground or hotel after a long day's ride. Also much better than trying to follow a map by constantly looking down at your tamk bag or pulling over every couple miles to check directions.

Now that I have gotten used to having it on the bike I take it whenever I ride. Frequently I just set it in 'map' mode so it displays the road ahead, then I can use it to find my way home without having to worry about how I got where I am.

I'm sure all of the GPS software will improve over the next couple of iterations. If you really want the good stuff you'll have to wait another year or two.

 

[BobMercer]

Going to Hell would be less painfull than owning another Chrysler product. I had a '93 Eagle Vision that I loved (to look at and drive), but it didn't reciprocate. It had to be the most unreliable piece o crap of all the cars I've ever owned. So I can relate to your opinion of Chrysler products, I would never own another. The Garmin 276C however isn't too bad. It has led me astray by routing me to the locked back gate of a friends mobile home park, rather than going through the front entrance, but the back was a shorter route! Just couldn't get in, even though we were about 200 feet from our friends home. I also suspect that Garmin doesn't list Walter Reed as a hospital to avoid a situation where a user needs an emergency room and would go there to no avail. I must admit it is frustrating at times to program a new destination, but at other times it is extremely helpfull getting somewhere. It just needs to be more intuitive, rather than to have to break out the owners manual each time.

Bob

 

[Pjturbo]

You have it easy, Jim. We have a navigator in my wifes chrysler minivan. The worst of all worlds. My new 2720 is a breeze compared to the chrysler unit.

Phil

 

[JimLor]

Pjturbo - you're already in hell!

 

[raclow]

Sorry to hear you are having problems with the Garmin unit. Garmin is a great company to work with and will help you with technical issues if you will call them at 1-800-800-1020.

Map Source can, at times, be a little difficult to use if you don't know what it needs to find what you are looking for. Keep putting in different combinations of things and you will start to understand how it is thinking. I have spent hours putting in various addresses, out of the phone book, to see how it works. Once I understood what it needed from me, then it became a whole lot easier. Try it and if I can help you in any way to better your experience, PM me and I'll call you to work it out for you.

I would rather see you in heaven.

 

[FJRay]

I have an old street pilot and most of the time I can't enter an address but if I use the cusor and wander aimlessly until I find the address it will find the route. I have two friends with the same units and the same problem. :angry2:

 

[Bounce]

I “think” that younger folks who have grown up with computers all their lives see navigating an unfriendly program as a way of life. Old farts, like me, think that if we (I) pay $700 for a program and the latest technology, we shouldn’t have to perform unnatural acts or outsmart it to make it work correctly – it should be intuitive and “simple” to use thus making life easier and fulfilling the promise of computers.

define "old fart". i'm 52.

 

[Inlaw1]

at times, be a little difficult to use if you don't know what it needs to find what you are looking for.

There is an understatement if I ever read one! I've plugged in an address and Map Source won't find it. I go and find it on another mapping source such as S&T or mapquest, zero on on Mapsource by using the cursor and find the street. This one was spelled Main St not Main Street. AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! :angry: MS S&T will at least give you some choices. I've even found the street off the map using the cursor yet when I spell it's iteration out in the "Find" menu of Map Source it still won't find it! :angry2:

Garmins Map Source is an embarrassing piece O crap for software and I curse it everytime I have to use it. That said, I like the Quest I have as it gets my honey around the country side for social work visits. It's a pain sometimes getting the address's for the routing, using several different mapping sources, but so far it gets done.

 

[VMax_03]

I “think” that younger folks who have grown up with computers all their lives see navigating an unfriendly program as a way of life. Old farts, like me, think that if we (I) pay $700 for a program and the latest technology, we shouldn’t have to perform unnatural acts or outsmart it to make it work correctly – it should be intuitive and “simple” to use thus making life easier and fulfilling the promise of computers.

define "old fart". i'm 52.

I'm 62 and I'm an old fart.

I also drive a Chrysler 300C and use a 2610 on the bike ... no maintenance or use issues with either.

JW

 

[JimLor]

Bounce - I would, in this instance, define "old fart" as anyone who graduated high school without ever using a computer. Or, if you ever played Pong and thought it was pretty cool, you may be an old fart. If you ever ever did math without a calculator (a calculator without a paper tape), you may be an old fart. Then again, remember, you're only as old as you are!

 

[radman]

MapSource is the least intuitive, least user friendly, least resourceful piece of mapping software I have ever used. What's especially fun is unlock coding and set-up, you don't know it's screwed until you finally get to the point attempting to use the unit it's installed in. But apparently, to paraphrase a political cliche, it's the worst one out there, except for all the rest.