chivvalry
Well-known member
. Perhaps Yamaha smelled the coffee? One can always dream...
HAAHAHAHAA!! :lol2: ...oh damn... that was a good one...
. Perhaps Yamaha smelled the coffee? One can always dream...
Yamaha would have to really have their heads firmly stuck in... the sand in order for them not to notice all these harnesses being replaced. And if they have to make more because all the warehouse stock is used up, it's not a big deal to do an ECO to fix the problem by getting rid of the spiders entirely. Basically re-create the Gen I harness with the proper connections to the Gen II components.In some industries, the "indefinite" lack of supply sometimes indicates a new version coming down the pike. Perhaps Yamaha smelled the coffee? One can always dream...Gosh... I wonder why they are out of harnesses? What ever could be causing those to be used up quickly?
Installed roadrunner's two fan harnesses the other day. I didn't do all four (the two lights) 'cause I'm a cheap bastidge when it comes to farkle money but I'm pretty confident tripling the ground paths is sufficient.
I totally agree with you. I don't know why they used those connectors for that much (possible) current, but it's not up to us. All I'm saying is, they need to go threw the paces. I know it's frustrating, but I'm sure they'll fix this. So I guess we'll have to wait for Yamaha, or come up with our own fixes (which I did) until they do.Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing Yamaha. I wasn't.
RZ350 already showed what the problem was, which any minimally competent electrical engineer would see immediately upon getting a look at how the grounds are routed in the Gen II harness. It's all about routing large currents through connector pins that aren't rated for that much current. There is no functional reason for those connectors to even be present in the harness, they could just as easily be replaced with crimped connections. I can speculate as to why they might have been added to the harness, but getting it right the 2nd time isn't going to be hard. Simply ditch all the spider connectors, and increase the wire gauges of certain wires as necessary.
Very well put LAF, couldn't agree more!This is a very interesting discussion and I am happy I am going to be around to watch how it turns out.
I did order mine here and waiting for it to arrive. I will install it and forget about it.
I know this chaps some guys *** to no end but all bikes have issues that are resolved by the riding community first, and sometimes the only way it gets resolved.
I paid 22,000.00 for a 07 BMW K1200LT and I had to bring it home, pull all the Tupperware and replace the fuel hose connectors. They had a tendency to break and spew your tank of gas all over the right side of the bike including your boot. Now the fix was a set of metal quick disconnects for ease of removing the tank when servicing the bike. It is a well documented occurrence so BMW had to know about it. The did change them about 08 or so but still went with plastic.
I did not like doing the labor and spending 80.00 on jiffy tight QD's but I did it for safety and peace of mind. It was trial by fire as getting a LT nakid is doing something. I see this as the same type of thing. I know it seems Yamaha dropped the ball on this but every manufacturer has it's quirks. And I don't see them ripping out an entire harness and putting in the exact same thing, not in my bike. What is the sense?
Like I said before, being proactive on this using either persons method, or your own if inclined, makes this a non issue. To me it is a safety issue so it needs addressed so I ordered what was needed before I officially owned the bike.
I know very little about electric except it can bite, but I showed the documents on calculated current to a person who I call Sparky and he was impressed to say the least. He also said the variances that may be there are a non issue in the application we are talking about. He also said it was very cool for hobbyist to recognize and come up with these fixes before manufacturers recognize, admit, and fix the problem.
I guess because I am new, and still high on smelling that Liquid Silver out in the carport when I go out and stare at her, I accept this a bit easier then you guys that have been riding Yamaha for a lot longer.
I think in the case of adding spider protection a dealer wouldn't blink if a recall was issued on the harness. I could understand them making a stink on a fully farkled bike possibly since that could add to the grounding stress - although most are run to the battery or other ground block (but you know how dealers like to point to a farkle as a problem even when it isn't part of the loop.) In my mind I have already resigned myself to telling the dealer to KEEP your harness plugged in if a harness recall ever happens. My service manager is cool enough they would do it. Heck they added my MC riser for only $25 when they did the ignition switch recall yesterday! Better to be safe than sorry.Speaking of covering they're ars. You're lucky they let you take it. Although once you put in an after market part that may have taken them off the hook. Oh no !! (a light just came on). :huh:
Yeah, I thought of that already, but since the jaw-dropping episode, I think I convinced them that we can control the situation in this case. I think Scrib is correct, again in this case, if and when the replacement OEM harnesses show up they know they will be able to send the bill to Yamaha, and I think they are cool with that. Besides I think they understand that either Yamaha sends a replacement harness that will eventually fail and the road runner harnesses will be in place, or they send a "new and improved" model and the road runner harnesses are [hopefully] redundant, and immaterial to the repair.Although once you put in an after market part that may have taken them off the hook. Oh no !! (a light just came on). :huh:
I've handled the spiders, and roughed them up with sandpaper prior to soldering them to the pins (having removed the pins out of the plastic connectors), also soldering on a heavy gauge ground wire to the top (physically wrapped through the hole in the center of the spider). From what I can remember the spiders did NOT appear to be made of Aluminum, but rather some kind of steel with maybe tin plating.Oh what the heck, let me add my 2 cents and be shot down. I am not an expert in electrical engineering but I do have a long a defective memory. In the 60's they started putting aluminum wiring in houses. Soon thereafter, said houses started burning down because of the aluminum wiring. Now I haven't looked at the spyders in person yet to know for sure, but from the pictures, they appear to be made of aluminum. If that is the case they whatever solution you decide on should include removing the spyder. Google the words "aluminum wiring", there are sites that show the problem in houses and corrective measures. Basically they say that anything short of replacing the aluminum with copper (removing the aluminum) is iffy. They show some pictures of failed connections and they look alot like the pictures of failed spyder on the forum. They also mention using a corrosion preventative grease on the connections (dielectric grease), but to be effective, they recommend applying the grease then ruffing up the surface of the aluminum with fine grit sand paper, the wiping off the excess grease.
Actually all he said was "and I do believe it's just carbon steel, the spider that is.."According to this poster the spider is made from Carbon Steel
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=668972
Please note though I sanded the contacts before soldering them and under the tin looked like copper, and the solder stuck to it very well.Actually all he said was "and I do believe it's just carbon steel, the spider that is.."According to this poster the spider is made from Carbon Steel
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=668972
I've just put a magnet to one and it's not attracted to the magnet. So it's definitely not normal carbon steel. I also tried a grinding wheel on it- zero sparks. Another vote against carbon steel. So, for all I know it could be aluminum. Maybe I'll try some lye on it and see what that does.
But- it doesn't really matter what the spiders are made of. The problem is the harness is designed to pass too much current through a single pin of the connector, more than the connector is rated for. The spider could be hard gold plated and still overheat due to the excessive current in the mating connector's socket.
Like I said, what the spiders are made of, or whether the contacts in the connector are BeCu or whatever, is not the root cause of the problem. The problem is too much current going through a connector not designed for it, which is further compounded by the connectors corroding due to lack of proper weather sealing.Please note though I sanded the contacts before soldering them and under the tin looked like copper, and the solder stuck to it very well.Actually all he said was "and I do believe it's just carbon steel, the spider that is.."According to this poster the spider is made from Carbon Steel
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=668972
I've just put a magnet to one and it's not attracted to the magnet. So it's definitely not normal carbon steel. I also tried a grinding wheel on it- zero sparks. Another vote against carbon steel. So, for all I know it could be aluminum. Maybe I'll try some lye on it and see what that does.
But- it doesn't really matter what the spiders are made of. The problem is the harness is designed to pass too much current through a single pin of the connector, more than the connector is rated for. The spider could be hard gold plated and still overheat due to the excessive current in the mating connector's socket.
You're right, I was just worried that in addition to a basic design flaw, there was an issue with mat'l.Like I said, what the spiders are made of, or whether the contacts in the connector are BeCu or whatever, is not the root cause of the problem. The problem is too much current going through a connector not designed for it, which is further compounded by the connectors corroding due to lack of proper weather sealing.Please note though I sanded the contacts before soldering them and under the tin looked like copper, and the solder stuck to it very well.Actually all he said was "and I do believe it's just carbon steel, the spider that is.."According to this poster the spider is made from Carbon Steel
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=668972
I've just put a magnet to one and it's not attracted to the magnet. So it's definitely not normal carbon steel. I also tried a grinding wheel on it- zero sparks. Another vote against carbon steel. So, for all I know it could be aluminum. Maybe I'll try some lye on it and see what that does.
But- it doesn't really matter what the spiders are made of. The problem is the harness is designed to pass too much current through a single pin of the connector, more than the connector is rated for. The spider could be hard gold plated and still overheat due to the excessive current in the mating connector's socket.
Keeping the spiders from corroding will no doubt help. That's what I've done to S5 (?), along with soldering a ground wire to the back of it. I completely cut off the S4 connector, and crimped all those ground wires together with a larger gauge ground going directly to the battery negative post.
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