Gen1 - new high power stator ... ground spider issues?

[RedTitan]

Full of questions as I learn the bike ... I am upgrading the stator for the additional 100 watts for goodies. I tour 2-up a couple of times a year and mama likes the comfort of heated gear.

Question is ... With increased current, do I need to be concerned about potential ground spider issues on the '05, or are the Gen1/Gen2 wiring harnesses significantly different?

Thanks again ...

 

[ionbeam]

Gen I and Gen II harnesses are quite different. No spiders on Gen I. An upgraded stator (Electrosport?) will have a short life. If you get 40k miles out of a high watt stator you have been real lucky.

Edited to add from an old post of mine:

I feel your pain and smell your smoke. The evening before EOM I had my FJR apart doing a stator swap. I have to check some old posts (or my records) but I belive my Electrosport had roughly 30k miles on it when it burned.

New Electrosport:

Used Electrosport:

 

[Donal]

I always understood the stator was fully loaded at all times due to the design of the shunt type regulator.

The only thing that changes is what actually happens to the available current. It either goes to supply 'loads' or is shunted to ground.

The stator doesn't know the difference..................

 

[ionbeam]

I always understood the stator was fully loaded at all times due to the design of the shunt type regulator.
The only thing that changes is what actually happens to the available current. It either goes to supply 'loads' or is shunted to ground.

The stator doesn't know the difference..................

Of course you are correct. Previous post edited.

 

[FJRay]

My first one died instantly but I think it had something to do with the metal wiring clip that stuck to the magnets and I didn't see it. the smoke came out quickly.

The second one gave up at just over 30k and number three has about 15k on it. When it dies I will put the original back in.

I don't need the extra juice anymore cause the wing has lots to spare and it's the two up bike of choice.

 

[huron52]

After my first electrosport stator went south just like in ionbeam's photo I put the stock stator back in. With a voltage meter my electrical usage has been within the happy zone.

Edit

I looked up my maintenance on the FJR and I installed the electrosport stator March 2008 at 118,000 kms and removed it June 2009 158,000 kms.

The stock one is still in the bike at 259,000kms.

I have heated grips run heated vest when required and have soltek lights. It all takes just a little management

 

[griff]

I had about 55k on my electroshit when I replaced it with the stock. I guess I was lucky that the smoke didn't escape, but it looked pretty toasty.

 

[SkooterG]

I've always wanted to upgrade my Gen I with the Gen II components. Just haven't found the Gen II parts cheap enough on ebay. Time and money kind of thing. And having four bikes in the garage. I am no expert but the one thing I might be concerned about over the long haul is the ignition switch handling the increased current. Which is why I have a Brody ignition switch harness waiting if I ever do the upgrade.

 

[Twigg]

I've always wanted to upgrade my Gen I with the Gen II components. Just haven't found the Gen II parts cheap enough on ebay. Time and money kind of thing. And having four bikes in the garage. I am no expert but the one thing I might be concerned about over the long haul is the ignition switch handling the increased current. Which is why I have a Brody ignition switch harness waiting if I ever do the upgrade.

What can be done?

I'd like to replace the Gen 1 dash with the Gen 2, especially as the paint is lifting on my dials, but I don't know if there are hidden traps.

 

[ionbeam]

I don't know if it is possible to swap a Gen I Meter Assembly (dash) with a Gen II. The ECU 'talks' to the Meter Assembly via a serial communication wire so the Meter Assembly and ECU need to 'talk' together in a very specific way. The Gen II dash has features that the Gen I dash does not so the Gen II dash may be unhappy with the lack of gear & temp information and different coolant temp display.

It seems that the FJR gauges tend to blister around the two mounting screws and around the needle pin. You can get replacement gauge faces. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't more info on the Forum should someone look

 

[Twigg]

Thanks ... Yes mine are blistering around the screws.

I've seen those and will probably go that way. I rather think those white faces would look quite good.

 

[SkooterG]

They all blister around the screws. At least I haven't seen one that doesn't. Especially when hot out in the sun. And when it cools off they get small again. 226k on one bike, 147k on another and it just doesn't bother me.

 

[Fred W]

My experience running heated gear on a 1st Gen with the stock stator and R/R while observing the Battery Voltage via a dash mounted Datel meter is that you can run two 90W jacket liners and two sets of gloves (whatever the Warm'nSafe glove wattage is) with no problems. The reason is that you use a pulse width modulated solid state controller to regulate the heat on the heated gear and, * assuming you are using it correctly, you never have the jacket liner turned up beyond 1/2 way, and the gloves about 2/3rds of max. My wife is able to turn her gear up higher than me,. but anything above those levels is very uncomfortable (if the gear is being used right)

But... that is with no other big loads on the alternator. Other big loads include heated grips, halogen or incandescent aux lights, etc. I found that the two sets of heated gear and a set of heated grips is just enough load to put the charging system into battery depletion mode. But the good news is, it still doesn't fry the stock stator (unlike certain after-market units). I also had a set of Hella FF50 aux lights for a while that would also send the charging system over the cliff.

Towards the end of my tenure I had a set of LR4 aux lights (4 Cree LEDs in each housing) and those did not push it over the line. The key is having a fairly accurate battery voltage indicator so you know what the alternator is delivering to the battery while you are fiddling with the loads.

* Using heated gear correctly means wearing only a single thin layer (like a LS tee shirt, etc.) between your skin and the heating element. Any added insulation layers should be added on the outside of the heating elements and only serves to make the heaters more efficient. The gloves should be fitted snuggly when purchased. If they don't feel snug, get the next size down. Having the heating elements close to you makes them work a whole lot better at lower power levels.

 

[TomInPA]

I noticed that as my battery approached end of life, the voltage drops using electric gear were much larger. It seemed the battery no longer buffered the demands. So I would see voltage from 12.6 to 13.8 using electric gear, and fluctuations from 13.2 to 14.2 under other loads. That battery didn't actually discharge, but it had me worried. With a new battery the fluctuations are much smaller and tend to stay higher. Does that sound right?

 

[Donal]

I always understood the stator was fully loaded at all times due to the design of the shunt type regulator.
The only thing that changes is what actually happens to the available current. It either goes to supply 'loads' or is shunted to ground.

The stator doesn't know the difference..................

Of course you are correct. Previous post edited.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass, this is a topic that I have always been interested in.

I guess in an ideal world we would have a series type regulator that controlled the output from the alternator to maintain a constant voltage.

With little or no bike loads there would be little or no current flowing in the alternator.

Schindengen are working on this and my understanding is they have a 35 Amp regulator (SH-775) and are working on a 50 Amp version.

However, reading around the net there appears to a problem with the regulator at higher RPMs (which equates to a higher frequency).

I can only assume that the frequency response of the Mosfets or SCRs gets a bit squirrelly.

The frequency output from the alternator is a function of RPM and the number of 'poles' exciting the stator.

Some interesting stuff and further reading can be found here

 

[Fred W]

I noticed that as my battery approached end of life, the voltage drops using electric gear were much larger. It seemed the battery no longer buffered the demands. So I would see voltage from 12.6 to 13.8 using electric gear, and fluctuations from 13.2 to 14.2 under other loads. That battery didn't actually discharge, but it had me worried. With a new battery the fluctuations are much smaller and tend to stay higher. Does that sound right?

When your battery was on its way out it was (most likely) putting a bigger load (lower resistance, higher current demand) on the charging system on its own, so that when you added your accessories the total current from the alternator was higher. It is the internal (infernal?) resistance in the stator windings that cause the voltage to drop when you overload it. That same resistance creates heat and, given a high enough load, will damage those stator windings eventually. That is why it is important to monitor the alternator voltage at the battery.

Regarding the shunt regulators, yes they do draw a full, but normal load from the generator at all times to regulate the voltage output at 14.1-14.3V. It just dumps the extra energy in the form of heat (that's why they have big heat sinks with fins, and they do get hot). But that is OK because the Stator is designed to handle that load (at 100% duty cycle) just fine.

There is excess capacity built into the alternator so that it can recharge he battery after it has been depleted somewhat during starting. When the battery voltage is lower it will it will draw more current from the charging system and the regulator will shunt less keeping total current drawn from the stator the same.

When you run into trouble is when the power demand increases beyond the amount that the regulator held in reserve. That is when the current (power) demand from the stator begins to increase above its nominal, and that is when you begin to see the charging voltage drooping significantly.