Going out doing what you love to do...

[fjrchooser]

Didn't want to post in the other thread but this is something that has always bugged me.

Ever since I asked a friend at work "Who died ? " several years ago with a smile on my face cuz he was wearing a suit instead of his normal jeans and found out it was indeed the case, I've tried to be a little more sensitive.

Anyway, the phrase "at least ___ died doing what they loved to do" doesn't make me feel any better, nor I'm guessing the family either.

Especially if it's something risky that they are likely currently really pissed that the person participated in.

I mean, I like to target shoot but I'm not going to be very happy if I or someone else happens to accidently shoot me dead while I'm doin it.

Pretty much the same thing if I take myself out on the bike. I know my wife will be mad as hell at me and likely go ape shit on the first person who lays that phrase on her.

Not trying to belittle anyone who feels differently or has already said it so please don't take it that way.

What do you all think, am I off base here ? Just something that struck me once again while thinking about our downed brother Larry, his family and friends. - Ross

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I think it's a hell of a lot better to say, "He went out doing what he loved." Than something like, "Everything happens for a reason."

You know, I'd much rather die doing something I love as it speaks well for me. I think people that don't do things out of fear of the consequences must have a very empty existence.

What I don't want on my headstone:

Andrew Knight

Another Bump on the Log

That Wore Off

Nothing will make Larry's family feel better now...some deaths are untimely, unwarranted, have no purpose and suck. There is no explanation, there is just "is".

However, in the future, sometime someone might reflect on his love of riding and smile. At least he had that love.

"Better to have loved and lost

Than never to have loved at all."

 

[slapnpop]

I've always told my family the following.

If I go young, I'd rather it be on my bike than any other way. The bike is a risk I know about, and every time I ride the thing I know I may not come back. To me, the experience is worth the risk, so I continue to ride. There are very few other areas of my life where I risk my life on a regular basis. I don't want to die in some freak accident that can't be explained. I'd much rather go doing something I felt was worth the risk, than something mundane I never expected to be a problem.

That being said, I think the more important thing is how you lived before you die. It doesn't matter how you go if you never lived. All of us are here because we made the decision that we'd risk death to live!

 

[fjrchooser]

I agree with you both as far as how WE feel about the risk, my question was more related to the survivors reception of the comment.

Some professions are risky, yet noble. The fireman, policeman, rescue worker, soldier etc. The comment made there at the time of loss would be construed as tribute to thier sacrifice and selflessness. However-

Motorcycling, skydiving, hang gliding etc. while adding immeasurably to lifes enrichment are not 'noble' nor necessary in and of themselves.

My wife may take comfort in that I lived a rich life somewhere down the road but likely have no appreciation for the same comment while mourning a fresh loss.

 

[Randy]

In looking for the words to explain my feelings, I can't say it better than S-N-P and Andrew have said it.

I've lost a few friends recently that were relatively young. Both died of heart failure - one died while mowing his grass and the other died while enjoying a weekend at the ski slopes with his family. Given the choice, I know which of the 2 I would have rather been doing.

Old age/natural causes is a boring way to go and, frankly speaking, it just ain't my style.

 

[dcarver]

FjrChooser,

Your post is well thought out and written.

I've had several life-threatening situations that could have gone either way that did not involve racing or riding.

During the most threatening situation, I asked immediate family to place one rose in the vase if things were bad, a bouquet of roses if things were good.. that way, when I first regained consciousness from surgery, I could tell myself what was what. My *second* thought, after first seeing the BOUQUET, was, what a f$##D way to go should it have gone that way.. and vowed to live life fully from that point forward.

That is why I always encourage folks to truly live. To chase their dreams, to excite their adrenal glands, to live life like it is not a dress rehearsal. And sometimes this philosophy bites back in the most severe way. Such are the risks and rewards of living life fully.

I sincerely hope that when my time is up, I’m doing something I really enjoy doing. My family and friends, after 49 revolutions of my life around the sun, has come to realize that I would not be me if I didn’t do what I want and/or like. They now understand, to the best of their abilities. I would be proud to have them say ‘He went out doing what he loved to do’.

My truest regrets are not of those times I’ve been injured or in the future even possibly killed but of those times I’ve said ‘NO” or didn’t do things I wanted to out of fear.

I guess that might be my epitaph. Shit. Now I’m tearing up. Bye.

 

[GunMD]

I also am among those who have expressed to my family and friends that in the event that this sort of fate should befall me, they should take comfort in the fact that my last moments were of my choosing. There are many, many things in this world that can kill me, but very few of those are things that I am passionate about. I only hope that if my time should come before I've had the chance to live a full life I'll be enjoying my last few moments passionately.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I agree with you both as far as how WE feel about the risk, my question was more related to the survivors reception of the comment.

I suppose it all depends on who you are talking to then. However, I think most people would think the statement one that would provide some solace.

It might be different if he was smoking and died of lung cancer. Then the statement might be construed as off.

That said, we all make our choices, but very few decide how to die, they decide how to live and death just might come as a result of their decisions. Larry decided how to live and I applaud him for that. I hope the quality of his shortened life does provide his loved one's solace at some time, if not now.

 

[Windjammer]

I guess in the end I don't care that much what I'm doing if I die suddenly, as long as it hapens a long time from now! :haha:

I don't think it's incorrect to say to a loved one, "He died doing what he loved". I think most people who are grieving would understand that even if they don't agree with your statement, you are only trying to say something to ease their grief. It's hard to choose the perfect words at a time like that.

 

[sparky3008]

I have read the stories of men that died while riding and their wives felt it was their duty to stop motorcycles from taking someone elses life.

Kind of like when a gun victims survivors find it their duty to take away all guns.

While I don't want to die riding my street bike or dirt bike I know it is a possibility.

This weekend one of my dirt riding friends was taken out by hellicopter. I think he will be ok but another was taken out in the same place to be paralyzed from the neck down. He was a newlywed and she left him soon after.

I have been hit from the rear sitting at a light and it kept me off of the street for a few months but I knew I would be back.

It is something I love to do and staying away just isn't in me.

While some who don't ride may not understand I take the risk and accept the possible outcome.

I have done a little hunting and I know all to well that I could be shot by someone not practicing safety. I accept that risk.

Cops, firemen, our troops (no draft) while it is a job they all choose this path because something about the job drives them. They want to help people and the job also gives them the excitement that many of these people crave also. My mom has been a cop for almost 30 years. When she started she was one of the few women to make it and of those who did she was the only one to not be driven out by men. I have always been proud and known this was what she loved doing.

My friends mother is dying, lying in bed and can't move. They come in every 5 minutes to move her. She is very over weight and for the 25 years I have known her she sat in front of the tv doing cross word puzzles day in and day out. I would not have wanted her life for anything. I have lived more life in 36 years than she has in 82, no thanks...

 

[dcarver]

FjrChooser.. I really do think you said it all..

Cuz living is about choices !

+1BaZillion.

 

[exskibum]

Well, first, there is NO way to say something that everyone will feel is appropriate. From most of our perspectives, it is those left behind that will suffer the loss, not he who died. Yet maybe it was he who died that we knew best, and not the others left behind. NOTHING will make it much better for those left behind. (To know that he was well liked or respected may be gratifying, but it often only deepens his widow's pain of loss. To be told he was an asshole or irresponsible, or weak or just vulnerable can sting like a slap across the face.) So what is the truth, and what part of it do you tell within the bounds of decency in any such situation? I try not to be too critical of people trying to offer condolences, remembrances or thoughts intended to give a perspective that may soften the sharp pain of loss.

As for me, when I go, I want it to be after or contemporaneous with my having lived my life and done those things that I love -- doesn't matter if that's the thing that kills me so much as it matters that I don't constrain my experiences to those things that don't make me love being alive, solely to reduce the risk of injury or death.

We all have different perspectives on life, seen from different stages in our own lives and with different goals. At 54 this month, divorced and without kids, I don't expect to have the same perspective as a 38 year old father of 2 with a loving wife who is making a future for all of them. For me, living in the physical world, complete with its risks, is what makes life worth continuing. If it kills me, so be it. Living without doing the things I love (that happen to be somewhat risky) would kill me, or I would. I try to be good at what I do, and my skill level and concentration has saved me more than once, but that doesn't mean that I will be skillful enough tomorrow to avoid fatal consequences if my time is up. To me, it is about your time coming or not coming, so I won't tiptoe up to that line worrying about whether it's my time. It's a trade off and I've chosen -- no amount of bad news about other riders having their time come up will make me stop riding.

At the end of the summer, the Honda Blackbird community lost two outstanding riders that many had gotten to know personally due to their years on motorcycles and regular attendance at meets all over the country. It was a freak accident that took them both instantaneously. I rode with one of them last June -- the kind of guy you immediately like. Warchild knew them both. It's still hard to believe they're gone, especially when you have footage of them riding roads you rode together. There's no changing it, and if either had known how that last ride would turn out, I'm sure they wouldn't have taken it -- for the sake of the others in their lives. But not knowing the fate that ride held, there's no way either would have stopped riding -- it was far too much a part of who they were. And it was because of their riding, their love for it, and who they were that they touched so many lives. They took a risk being dedicated motorcyclists, but their lives were enriched by their experiences and the people they met in that world. They certainly enriched the lives of the rest of us that met them. They did what they loved before they went out.

I'm going to do the same and continue to understand and respect anyone who chooses not to take the less risky road because he or she has a passion for life experiences that cannot be known by playing it safe. If others feel differently, that is their choice, but given that this is a motorcyclists' board, I suspect that most of you know what I mean.

 

[twowheelnut]

I'm a firm believer in the old saying, 'When your number is up, it's up.' In my circle, folks have passed away, or been killed more precisely, doing very mundane things.

Then, I look at my brother and his cadre of Special Forces buddies. They are all still kickin'! Der Colonel, as the family calls him, has hundreds of jumps, routinely goes spelunking in Afghanistan and from what I can only educatedly assume, has been playing in the Sand Box doing serious good guy, nasty shit off and on since Desert Storm.

I know of people who have been boozing or have been dopers for decades and yet they still go strong. Still, a young man here in the complex died last year of complete heart failure. He was a personal trainer - seemingly fit as a fiddle and never touched 'the stuff'.

Long and short? You never know when you're number is up, but it's pre-programmed into the cosmos, so go knock your socks off and enjoy life. This is the only chance you got!

 

[madmike2]

One of my cousins has questioned my sanity after the "cliff diving--total of the '04 FJR", and asked me about it. I told him that I don't want to enter the gates of heaven having lived safely and conservatively. I'd rather slide over the threshold like sliding into home plate saying, "Thank you God for all you gave me to enjoy and for the ability to enjoy as much as I could."

OTH, my children are raised and on their own, unlike my co-worker, a couple of years ago, who stupidly drank beer all morning then crashed his custom H.D. into a pole because the road turned and he didn't, leaving an 18 yr. old son and an 11 yr. old daughter for someone else to raise.

I doubt my "princess" would take kindly to someone offering that phrase as comfort, though she has made that kind of statement to other family members in my defense. Bad things happen and never at an "opportune" time. I think we hear and read the "At least..." comment more to assuage our own emotions and thought processes concerning our choice to ride and the attendant risks.

Hopefully, anyone comforting the family at this time will be wise enough to "Mourn with those who mourn..."

 

[skyway]

Here's what it's all about for me. Those who don't ride will never understand it and no amount of words will help them.

 

[fjrchooser]

Such are the risks and rewards of living life fully.

That said, we all make our choices, but very few decide how to die, they decide how to live and death just might come as a result of their decisions. Larry decided how to live and I applaud him for that.

It's hard to choose the perfect words at a time like that.

I have lived more life in 36 years than she has in 82, no thanks...

I'm going to do the same and continue to understand and respect anyone who chooses not to take the less risky road because he or she has a passion for life experiences that cannot be known by playing it safe.

Yet maybe it was he who died that we knew best, and not the others left behind.

so go knock your socks off and enjoy life. This is the only chance you got!

There are many, many things in this world that can kill me, but very few of those are things that I am passionate about.

Wise words all and something I came to terms with long ago. Thanks for helping me out with this. I've been staring at the board all night and thinking about this past weekends conversation with my wife. She gave me permission to pick up a GXSR or R1 while keeping the FJR.

She almost started to cry when she asked me what I was running away from..or to.

Strange , I'd had the same thought earlier in the day as I stood amongst the line of bikes at the dealership. Trying once again to justify it and decide which one for the umpteenth time in the last several months.

Suddenly it dawned on me that nearly everyone of all ages was behind me checking out the ' safe ' bikes - cruisers. And here was the 53 yr old old fart, standing alone in the middle of the big cc. crotch rockets contemplating his next purchase. Did I have a death wish ? Wasn't the FJR enough for me ? I felt more than a little selfish. Perhaps the wife would ride more often with me if we were on one of them I thought ? But no, even 35 years ago she was no fan of our Harleys.

Then I shrugged. Cruisers just don't do it for me, if thats all the motorcycle world consisted of then I'd be a full time cager now. Boils down to stress relief and enjoyment. Even staring at them parked or waxing the Feej has the same effect on me as petting a dog. Riding them has me howling at the moon !

Thats when she gave her blessing and I realize now that she understands more than I thought she did. I just hope she can forgive me if Larry's fate becomes mine someday. And thats something I guess I still have to come to terms with...soon.

P.S. Just don't tell her " at least... "

 

[wpbfjr]

imho there are two things appropriate for the family that has had ANY loss:

1. 'i am sorry for your loss' is simple, true, and stays away from judgement;

2. do a service deed: cut their grass, shine their shoes before the service, bring food in disposable containers with disposable utensils, drive them places, quietly pick up the tab for something, just sit and listen to them.

in short: give them hope.

dana

 

[Toynut]

Fjrchooser,

I am continually and profoundly touched and impressed by the insightful self -introspect that the forum members (both young and older), continue to demonstrate on such sensitive, soul searching issues.

I have been fortunate enough in life to build an excellent business, which has afforded my family the opportunity and choices to live not only quite comfortably, but with the opportunity to taste and enjoy many of life's more pleasant pursuits.

I have found that many of my contemporaries, as well as family members have lived considerably more "tepid" lives, for a multitude of reasons, both personal, and some due to financial considerations. I have always gravitated to pursuits that are totally out of the norm for my culture (being Jewish), such as hunting throughout the globe, fly fishing, hangliding (in college), scuba diving, drag racing, etc. as well as enjoying all sorts of motorized toys . I can take comfort that I have lived a moral life, have raised a couple of great kids, keep my wife reasonably amused, and continue to contribute financially and personally to many good causes. I have always grown up(as many on the forum have), being scolded that I will be hurt (or worse) doing this or that in my life, I still make my mother nervous to this day.

I know it will pain my wife and family if the unfortunate was to happen to me. I take some sense of comfort knowing that I have made arrangements that my wife and family (and business) will be in the most capable hands if the unthinkable should happen (this is a crucial priority).

I have gone to many funerals in my life, family members, customers, employee's family members, business associates, etc . How many of them died "doing what they loved" would be in question. Is dying at your office more honorable than dying in a hospital bed of a self-inflicted (smoking) cancer? I don't think most of us would be amenable to maximizing our lifespan by hiding indoors and avoiding all "dangerous activity". TWN is partially right, when your number is up................

I do insist that anyone engaging in potentually dangerous persuits would predicate you approach it rationally, and with some measure of personal responsibility, by trying to be competent in your activity, practicing safety, use the best safety equipment possible (ask Teerex), and being honest about your abilities/capabilities.

Above all, live a moral life and make sure that at the very least, you have your finances in order if the unthinkable happens.

I may be a bit over-dramatic in my response. It is always painful and sobering

to hear of a tragedy in your community.

If you live life and treat your family, friends, and employees as a "Mensch", you will leave a positive mark on the world, no matter when your time is up. One can only hope we leave this world with all of our senses intact, and with as few regrets as possible.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I can't resist getting in on this one.

I died once already. Drowned when I was eight years old. Was given the choice to come back, and did because I didn't feel my life was yet complete.

My Father grew up riding motorcycles and so did I. He chose not to take a heart transplant and extend his life a few months (at best) because it did not offer him the quality of life he demanded.

Death sucks in any form. But there does seem to be some differentiating factor between being gunned down by a punk on the street and dying during an activity that crucially defined who you were.

"He died doing something that he loved" simply flips the coin of death over to show a reflection of the good that someone leaves behind. Their legacy of choices they made, not the flickering moment of tragedy when they died.

It's not about death. The experience is far over-rated. I know personally!