Gravel Devil ate my 07

[fjrshanta]

Sorry to hear about the gravel incident. I think this bike is just so heavy, when you hit gravel like that, there isn't much hope of saving it.
On my FZ1 and my Blackbird I've had some incidents where I hit some and the rear slipped, but it grabbed again. On the FJR, when I hit gravel, I was sliding on my ass by the time I realized that anything happened.

If you are looking for pants, try the Fieldshier titanium air. They have nice kneepads, and have buttons above and below the knee to secure them in place so they don't slide around as much. They breath very well. And they did quite well sliding on the concrete at about 65 mph.

Oh-Oh, thats just the kind of pant I am looking for!! :yahoo: Thank you very much for the tip!! I will go shopping for them while the bike is being repaired!

Thanks Again!

Shawn

 

[SilveradoSlick]

Sorry about the bike & hope no serious damage was done to it. Sliders seem to be overwhelmed by seriously crashing the bike. I'm glad a sore arm was all you got out of it.

It was on Mines rd. just south of Livermore about 8mi.

Thought that road looked familiar. I used to bicycle it regularly. Lotta gravel. Never went down. Fortunately you were wearing better gear than I did.

Welcome to the crash club and remember there's no yearly dues.

 

[mcatrophy]

Glad you're OK. A bit worse than my little low-side, but as others have said, bikes can be mended (though expensively!).

As for insurance and you being "at fault", that's probably fair enough, since no-one else was involved. Certainly, here in the UK, insurance companies always call it the driver's fault unless the driver can get another party to pay the excess amount, even if it's whoever is responsible for keeping the road in good order.

Now, if you can sue the highway authority for having a dangerous road surface ...

Anyway, good for ATGATT, it's always been my policy; I would suggest changing at least any armour that's been "used" when you landed, it does crush and will be less benificial if ever (hope never) you need it again.

 

[Fred W]

I just got back from taking the bike to the dealer and meeting with the insurance inspector. Got a call from the insurance office about 20 min later saying they found that I was "At-Fault" and the gravel should have been avoidable.?? :blink:

I guess since it was a one vehicle accident there is nobody else to blame.

Does it matter in your state who's fault it is?

 

[fjrshanta]

I just got back from taking the bike to the dealer and meeting with the insurance inspector. Got a call from the insurance office about 20 min later saying they found that I was "At-Fault" and the gravel should have been avoidable.?? :blink:

I guess since it was a one vehicle accident there is nobody else to blame.

Does it matter in your state who's fault it is?

From what I have been able to find, it only allows the insurance company's to increase your rates legally.

 

[fjrshanta]

Sorry about the bike & hope no serious damage was done to it. Sliders seem to be overwhelmed by seriously crashing the bike. I'm glad a sore arm was all you got out of it.

It was on Mines rd. just south of Livermore about 8mi.

Thought that road looked familiar. I used to bicycle it regularly. Lotta gravel. Never went down. Fortunately you were wearing better gear than I did.

Welcome to the crash club and remember there's no yearly dues.

No yearly dues?? I wish I had found out that before I paid $1000 to the insurance co. :derisive:

 

[Draggon Rider]

What pants were you wearing, and how did they hold up?

I was wearing the Tourmaster venture "air" pants over jeans and they were only scuffed on the sitting part. I still cant understand how they came out so good but I think they are still usable. I have doubts about an impact with the knee pad section of them because they have never fit well in that area and the knee pads seem to move around too much. I might replace them with a better fitting pant if anyone has any recommendations .

And what underwear were you wearing???? JUST KIDDING!!!

Dude I know how you feel, I went down, fractured a bone in my knee, the bike was not damaged as bad as yours,

but the fact that your OK is all that matters.

My ego was in worse shape, I went down in front of groups of bikers... Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

 

[Draggon Rider]

I just got back from taking the bike to the dealer and meeting with the insurance inspector. Got a call from the insurance office about 20 min later saying they found that I was "At-Fault" and the gravel should have been avoidable.?? :blink:

I guess since it was a one vehicle accident there is nobody else to blame.

Does it matter in your state who's fault it is?

From what I have been able to find, it only allows the insurance company's to increase your rates legally.

If the claim is too large the insurance company may deside to put a "Salvage Retention" in the bikes history with the DMV.

Which will cause you to have to go through a bunch of Safety inspections when it comes time to renew your tags.

I would check with your carrier.

I found this out the hard way.

 

[fjrshanta]

I just got back from taking the bike to the dealer and meeting with the insurance inspector. Got a call from the insurance office about 20 min later saying they found that I was "At-Fault" and the gravel should have been avoidable.?? :blink:

I guess since it was a one vehicle accident there is nobody else to blame.

Does it matter in your state who's fault it is?

From what I have been able to find, it only allows the insurance company's to increase your rates legally.

If the claim is too large the insurance company may deside to put a "Salvage Retention" in the bikes history with the DMV.

Which will cause you to have to go through a bunch of Safety inspections when it comes time to renew your tags.

I would check with your carrier.

I found this out the hard way.

Thanks for that tip! That is the kind of information that only experience can provide and is better known before hand.

 

[Toecutter]

The speed at the time the GPS came off of the bike it recorded 43mph and I think that is about correct. The corner is posted at 35mph and the approach path was textbook according the book "Total Control by Lee Parks" and to my memory :mellow: .

Nothing wrong with that, except Lee made his fame riding on the track, where there's no gravel. I've read the book and I've taken his clinic. Great stuff, but in the real world, "textbook" sometimes bites you, as you've seen firsthand, and the insurance investigator took another bite.

I attended a local Police PR day a while back, put on for slow-speed skills improvement. The training officer said their officers only get one of two possible findings when they're involved in a crash: "At fault" or "Avoidable". Kinda harsh, but it's their policy, not mine. Probably very similar attitude with insurance companies and single-vehicle accidents.

I tend to try to ride in the car "wheel tracks" as they are generally more clear of gravel.

This type of get-off is one of the main reasons I don't apex corners on the street. Any gravel (or other slippery crap) on the road surface will get cleaned off first in the places where the car tires travel, and moved to the places where they don't.

I guess maybe the takeaway is to ride the outside wheel track in your lane all the way through the corner in questionable road surfaces (possible loose stuff) rather than late apexing and crossing the center of the travel lane on a lean.

I preach staying in the right-side tire track, which gives away several feet of your lane (AKA: Big safety margin) to oncoming lane violators. The original topic is available for reading in the "Stay Right-Stay Alive" link in my sig.

Apologies to those who've endured this sermon previously....

 

[airboss]

I do the crash investigations for my company( yes crash not accident), there's only two kinds of crashes preventable or non preventable. About the only way for a driver to score a non preventable is if the wheels weren't turning.

 

[fjrshanta]

The speed at the time the GPS came off of the bike it recorded 43mph and I think that is about correct. The corner is posted at 35mph and the approach path was textbook according the book "Total Control by Lee Parks" and to my memory :mellow: .

Nothing wrong with that, except Lee made his fame riding on the track, where there's no gravel. I've read the book and I've taken his clinic. Great stuff, but in the real world, "textbook" sometimes bites you, as you've seen firsthand, and the insurance investigator took another bite.

I attended a local Police PR day a while back, put on for slow-speed skills improvement. The training officer said their officers only get one of two possible findings when they're involved in a crash: "At fault" or "Avoidable". Kinda harsh, but it's their policy, not mine. Probably very similar attitude with insurance companies and single-vehicle accidents.

I tend to try to ride in the car "wheel tracks" as they are generally more clear of gravel.

This type of get-off is one of the main reasons I don't apex corners on the street. Any gravel (or other slippery crap) on the road surface will get cleaned off first in the places where the car tires travel, and moved to the places where they don't.

I guess maybe the takeaway is to ride the outside wheel track in your lane all the way through the corner in questionable road surfaces (possible loose stuff) rather than late apexing and crossing the center of the travel lane on a lean.

I preach staying in the right-side tire track, which gives away several feet of your lane (AKA: Big safety margin) to oncoming lane violators. The original topic is available for reading in the "Stay Right-Stay Alive" link in my sig.

Apologies to those who've endured this sermon previously....

This is all good stuff! I agree now that apexing a corner may be better left to the track as theoretical practice will apply more often (i.e. controlled conditions) in that arena. I did note after looking at the crash photos that the bike and I stayed exclusively in the proper lane for the given direction of travel. If I had been unfortunate enough to have gone down without apexing the turn I wonder if I would have had the same "in lane" finishing place. :worriedsmiley:

 

[fjrshanta]

I do the crash investigations for my company( yes crash not accident), there's only two kinds of crashes preventable or non preventable. About the only way for a driver to score a non preventable is if the wheels weren't turning.

Hi airboss,

Here is the way I see that. Tell me what you think.

After speaking to the insurance co., they stated to me that the label "At-Fault" was due to the fact that I was traveling too fast for the given road conditions. Technically, that is correct however, while taking that corner and the 322 just before it, I saw a clear road with no degradation of road surface or traction conditions. No special signs were placed on the roadway stating a change in conditions or the like. Therefore, my only judgment for road speed was the posted speed limit and the clear looking roadway. :blink:

Shawn

 

[weekend rider]

I hate to say this but the secret is in your last sentence, " POSTED SPEED LIMIT". That is where the insurance got you. It is not how fast you can go through a corner safely and not crash but if you crash and were ecxceeding the speed limit. It is all in the wording, meaning the signage and the inssurance companiee's interpetation.

Ust so you do not feel to bad this happened about a month ago. The wind was blowing here in Woodland real bad gust to about 45-50 mph. A city cop on a ST1300 was writing a ticket to a speeding cager,he had his bke on the side stand and the wind came up to a real strong gust and blew the bike over, did severl hunderd dolars worth of damage, the good part I got to see it on its side..

Now you tell me, wheels were not turning was this preventable or not - preventable??

Get it fixed and get ridding that is the cure for this problem :bike:

 

[fjrshanta]

I hate to say this but the secret is in your last sentence, " POSTED SPEED LIMIT". That is where the insurance got you. It is not how fast you can go through a corner safely and not crash but if you crash and were ecxceeding the speed limit. It is all in the wording, meaning the signage and the inssurance companiee's interpetation.

Ust so you do not feel to bad this happened about a month ago. The wind was blowing here in Woodland real bad gust to about 45-50 mph. A city cop on a ST1300 was writing a ticket to a speeding cager,he had his bke on the side stand and the wind came up to a real strong gust and blew the bike over, did severl hunderd dolars worth of damage, the good part I got to see it on its side..

Now you tell me, wheels were not turning was this preventable or not - preventable??

Get it fixed and get ridding that is the cure for this problem :bike:

I would like to have seen that!!

I actually, don't feel too bad about the incident or the legal mumbo-jumbo that gets thrown around when rules regarding money are on the table. The ins. co. is just trying to do their job.

I feel VERY fortunate that I was uninjured and have learned a piece or two of information that, with any luck, will keep me on the bike for a long time to come. This hiatus without the bike is just allowing me to enjoy it that much more when I get it back.

Thanks to everyone for posting their valuable tid-bits of information!!

Shawn

 

[Fred W]

This is all good stuff! I agree now that apexing a corner may be better left to the track as theoretical practice will apply more often (i.e. controlled conditions) in that arena. I did note after looking at the crash photos that the bike and I stayed exclusively in the proper lane for the given direction of travel. If I had been unfortunate enough to have gone down without apexing the turn I wonder if I would have had the same "in lane" finishing place. :worriedsmiley:

I'm thinking that if you were in the right hand wheel track (on a right hand turn) and went down you would have had a very similar trajectory and ended up in the same place. OTOH, when in the right hand wheel track and you slide out you don't get much room before you're off in the woods.

I think that you have to vary your approach depending on whether you can see through the entire corner or not, and whether there is oncoming traffic or not.

 

[Harald]

I hate to say this but the secret is in your last sentence, " POSTED SPEED LIMIT". That is where the insurance got you. It is not how fast you can go through a corner safely and not crash but if you crash and were ecxceeding the speed limit. It is all in the wording, meaning the signage and the inssurance companiee's interpetation.

Not sure about other states, but here in WA those yellow corner speed signs are not regulatory. A white speed limit sign is regulatory, but yellow signs are only cautionary and you can't get ticketed for exceeding that speed (unless you do something else to warrant a ticket like leave your lane or crash). So those corners speed signs amount to a "recommended" speed sign.

In this case I'm guessing the insurance company is saying you are at fault because you exceeded the recommended speed?

 

[CHRIS_D]

I hate to say this but the secret is in your last sentence, " POSTED SPEED LIMIT". That is where the insurance got you. It is not how fast you can go through a corner safely and not crash but if you crash and were ecxceeding the speed limit. It is all in the wording, meaning the signage and the inssurance companiee's interpetation.

Not sure about other states, but here in WA those yellow corner speed signs are not regulatory. A white speed limit sign is regulatory, but yellow signs are only cautionary and you can't get ticketed for exceeding that speed (unless you do something else to warrant a ticket like leave your lane or crash). So those corners speed signs amount to a "recommended" speed sign.

In this case I'm guessing the insurance company is saying you are at fault because you exceeded the recommended speed?

Back in December, I had an unplanned dismount similar to this (same thing, no warning the bike just slide out from under me), and Geico charged me at fault. I started to complain and they essentially told me unless an animal jumps out in front of you (it's put under comprehensive then) that any single vehicle crash is considered "at fault".

My bike did the same by flipping on both sides. I had sliders and It still ended up costing over 6K to repair which was mostly plastic.

 

[airboss]

I do the crash investigations for my company( yes crash not accident), there's only two kinds of crashes preventable or non preventable. About the only way for a driver to score a non preventable is if the wheels weren't turning.

Hi airboss,

Here is the way I see that. Tell me what you think.

After speaking to the insurance co., they stated to me that the label "At-Fault" was due to the fact that I was traveling too fast for the given road conditions. Technically, that is correct however, while taking that corner and the 322 just before it, I saw a clear road with no degradation of road surface or traction conditions. No special signs were placed on the roadway stating a change in conditions or the like. Therefore, my only judgment for road speed was the posted speed limit and the clear looking roadway. :blink:

Shawn

I hate to say this but the secret is in your last sentence, " POSTED SPEED LIMIT". That is where the insurance got you. It is not how fast you can go through a corner safely and not crash but if you crash and were ecxceeding the speed limit. It is all in the wording, meaning the signage and the inssurance companiee's interpetation.

Ust so you do not feel to bad this happened about a month ago. The wind was blowing here in Woodland real bad gust to about 45-50 mph. A city cop on a ST1300 was writing a ticket to a speeding cager,he had his bke on the side stand and the wind came up to a real strong gust and blew the bike over, did severl hunderd dolars worth of damage, the good part I got to see it on its side..

Now you tell me, wheels were not turning was this preventable or not - preventable??

Get it fixed and get ridding that is the cure for this problem :bike:

Sorry, Shawn you and I bought score a preventable, we out rode our sight line and didn't see the gravel in time to avoid it.

Weekend rider the city cop gets a non preventable IF he has followed his departments directives concerning parking and securing motorcycles while unattended.

 

[fjrshanta]

Made me sick looking at it. Sorry , but thank goodness you're not hurt. I can't tell what kind of sliders you had on-it looks like one of them took quite a hit.

After looking VERY closely at the broken T-rex slider from my recent get off, I found this!! Look near the mounting location of the attachment bolt. THERE IS A VOID IN THE MATERIAL. This would cause a weakness in the structure!!! Be careful of the T-rex stuff. They were cheap but, now I can see why!!!!

Link for the broken T-rex slider;

https://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/F...T-rex%20slider/