Group Ride Casualty

[CAJW]

Tom - Sorry your friend got hurt, but then again, stuff happens. Every rider knows when they throw a leg over their bike it could end up in disaster, but then so could crossing the street on foot. Just boils down to acceptance of risk and no group ride leader can accept that risk on another riders behalf. It's understandable why you're having a pang of remorse, but don't let it work on the cranial matter too much as the most important part of riding IMHO is the enjoyment/freedom aspect and if we over think things we'll lose that enjoyment. BTW, I don't think most folks actually RIDE with Fairlaner, normally we just ask where the destination is and we'll arrive after him!

 

[yamafitter]

I used to guide trail riders in the local forest for a samll dirtbike tour company in the past. I was leading my group of 4 riders when I came across the other group of 6 riders that had lost their leader. There was supposed to be a rule that you waited for the next rider at each intersection since it is very to get lost in this particular forest. I then ended up with a group that was far too large. All of these customers were motorcycle cops from Finland that were in Canada for some training. I was leading the group to a rest stop down a straight trail but unfortunately one of the riders somehow got off the trail and hit a stump in the tall grass. The rider suffered a concussion and I called for an ambulance but the rider refused assistance.

After the ride was over the owner of the company attempted to blame me for leading such a large group instead of blaming the other guide for losing his group. Needless to say I was not impressed and do not work for this company after that incident.

I now ride mostly solo and if I am in a group ride I prefer not to lead and ride at my own pace usually riding in the sweep position.

 

[BikerGeek99]

Eek!

Glad Rob is relatively OK. It's not often that a bike tangles with a cage's bumper and the rider is around to tell the tale.

Personally, I used to really enjoy group rides, the bigger the better. My riding skills have evolved (but I'm still slow!) as have my preferences. Nowadays, if I'm gonna ride in a group I prefer groups of 3 - 5 bikes. And I HATE to be the ride leader (just ask yamafitter, Bungie and vabrzn when we went for a romp at NAFO).

I overheard a comment at (IIRC) EOM '08 by Fencer (I think - damn strawberries). It went something like, "I'm a better hound than I am a fox."

 

[beemerdons]

BTW, I don't think most folks actually RIDE with Fairlaner or FJRONAMISSION, normally we just ask where the destination is and we'll arrive after them!

CAJW, I hope you don't mind; I went ahead and fixed it for you, you're welcome!

 

[TomInPA]

I think a lot of us like to give something back to other riders, and my knowledge of the roads in our region is the gift I have in return for riding many many miles. The down-side of that is you end up with a lot of less experienced riders and 2-up couples. If I'm not leading or sweeping, I rarely ride with the group. The local FJR riders are a completely different dynamic, and very much my equal or better in skill and respect for the road.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm not going to assume a lot of personal responsibility on this one, but will plan routes to avoid a series of urban intersections in the future as best I can. We did fine in the countryside and this ride went pretty well, as most do, at least until we had this incident.

 

[beemerdons]

When I ride with Fairlaner he is a alot faster than me and is a better rider. I know this from the start and never try to keep up with him especially knowing he stops every 30 minutes to smoke

Actually Dan, on the last FJR Forum ride from Temecula to Palm Springs: Richard went 40 minutes before he had to stop to light up a ***!!!

 

[CAJW]

When I ride with Fairlaner he is a alot faster than me and is a better rider. I know this from the start and never try to keep up with him especially knowing he stops every 30 minutes to smoke

Actually Dan, on the last FJR Forum ride from Temecula to Palm Springs: Richard went 40 minutes before he had to stop to light up a ***!!!

Don, Thanks for fixing my post, but I'm not going to touch this one with a 10' pole!

 

[SacramentoMike]

Another voice just saying hope your buddy's ok and don't blame yourself. After all, If YOU'D been the one to broadside a cage, would everybody else have too? But I do want to comment about all the anti-group-ride sentiments expressed here.

One big group is very unwieldy, no doubt. But a big group becomes multiple small groups and re-forms into a big group over and over if everybody is using their noodle. Like at stop signs. (!) All the comments about leaders waiting for the group and everybody watching for the guy behind are right on the mark, but each rider still has to think a little. The problem comes, as in this case, when everybody focuses on keeping the group intact, no matter what.

When a driver wants to go faster than a group of bikes, a solid, closely-spaced line is going to be a hindrance, and maybe cause a stupid and dangerous pass, or cutting in on the line without enough cushion. Same with groups that get into the no. 1 (fast) lane of 2 or 3-lane highways and stay there, even when they're being passed over and over on the right. I've seen it a lot. We have to think more than car drivers do; we've got more to lose. We can ride safely in a group, but we need to do it with our brains running, not just following the guy in front, and watching the conditions. Be safe out there, everybody.

 

[ynotride]

When I ride with Fairlaner he is a alot faster than me and is a better rider. I know this from the start and never try to keep up with him especially knowing he stops every 30 minutes to smoke

Actually Dan, on the last FJR Forum ride from Temecula to Palm Springs: Richard went 40 minutes before he had to stop to light up a ***!!!

Yeah I remember and I was also there for the ride with Fairlaner and FJRonamission at WFO. Why do you think I got back to the hotel an hour later and with only 2 out of the 6 guys I left with. It only took me 5 minutes to figure out I wanted no part of that ride :lol: I'll give Richard credit for day two going to the lost coast. He said he was going to take it easy and he did and we all had a really fun ride that day.

As you know Don when I led you and Dan on the ride down from Montery. He had his fun and we had our fun. I have no problem staying back and riding my own ride. Plus it is always a good feeling knowing Richard is ahead clearing the POPO for us.

EDIT- I apologize for the offtopic rambling. I'm stuck in the Philippines working and it's 330am and I'm bored

 

[beemerdons]

When I ride with Fairlaner he is a alot faster than me and is a better rider. I know this from the start and never try to keep up with him especially knowing he stops every 30 minutes to smoke

Actually Dan, on the last FJR Forum ride from Temecula to Palm Springs: Richard went 40 minutes before he had to stop to light up a ***!!!

Yeah I remember and I was also there for the ride with Fairlaner and FJRonamission at WFO. Why do you think I got back to the hotel an hour later and with only 2 out of the 6 guys I left with. It only took me 5 minutes to figure out I wanted no part of that ride :lol: I'll give Richard credit for day two going to the lost coast. He said he was going to take it easy and he did and we all had a really fun ride that day.

As you know Don when I led you and Dan on the ride down from Montery. He had his fun and we had our fun. I have no problem staying back and riding my own ride. Plus it is always a good feeling knowing Richard is ahead clearing the POPO for us.

Well, at least this Englishman is good for something: Cleaning Poo-Poo; and clearing POPO also!

 

[TomInPA]

Another voice just saying hope your buddy's ok and don't blame yourself. After all, If YOU'D been the one to broadside a cage, would everybody else have too? But I do want to comment about all the anti-group-ride sentiments expressed here.

One big group is very unwieldy, no doubt. But a big group becomes multiple small groups and re-forms into a big group over and over if everybody is using their noodle. Like at stop signs. (!) All the comments about leaders waiting for the group and everybody watching for the guy behind are right on the mark, but each rider still has to think a little. The problem comes, as in this case, when everybody focuses on keeping the group intact, no matter what.

When a driver wants to go faster than a group of bikes, a solid, closely-spaced line is going to be a hindrance, and maybe cause a stupid and dangerous pass, or cutting in on the line without enough cushion. Same with groups that get into the no. 1 (fast) lane of 2 or 3-lane highways and stay there, even when they're being passed over and over on the right. I've seen it a lot. We have to think more than car drivers do; we've got more to lose. We can ride safely in a group, but we need to do it with our brains running, not just following the guy in front, and watching the conditions. Be safe out there, everybody.

Well said and worth repeating. In the open countryside, I frequently get on the jets and am well ahead of a group I am leading, and let the members choose their comfortable pace. I cover this in the pre-ride briefing, and suggest riders that are comfortable with a faster pace ride near the front of the pack, and let the tailgunner watch for stragglers. But always, ride your own ride and only go as fast as you are comfortable, this is not a competition, and make your own traffic decisions. In urban areas we do try to keep a group tighter to make the lights work, and for very large groups, the tailgunner will often block. Cliff is particularly good at this. :lol:

 

[wheatonFJR]

Another voice just saying hope your buddy's ok and don't blame yourself. After all, If YOU'D been the one to broadside a cage, would everybody else have too? But I do want to comment about all the anti-group-ride sentiments expressed here.

One big group is very unwieldy, no doubt. But a big group becomes multiple small groups and re-forms into a big group over and over if everybody is using their noodle. Like at stop signs. (!) All the comments about leaders waiting for the group and everybody watching for the guy behind are right on the mark, but each rider still has to think a little. The problem comes, as in this case, when everybody focuses on keeping the group intact, no matter what.

When a driver wants to go faster than a group of bikes, a solid, closely-spaced line is going to be a hindrance, and maybe cause a stupid and dangerous pass, or cutting in on the line without enough cushion. Same with groups that get into the no. 1 (fast) lane of 2 or 3-lane highways and stay there, even when they're being passed over and over on the right. I've seen it a lot. We have to think more than car drivers do; we've got more to lose. We can ride safely in a group, but we need to do it with our brains running, not just following the guy in front, and watching the conditions. Be safe out there, everybody.

GREAT comments.

Some of my favorite riding was flying through SE Ohio with some newfound FJR friends on Thompson Ridge road, watching the group of 8 snaking around, following the ridge, left, right, down, up...an awesome sight that I can still picture.

George/escapefjrtist was there...great times.

 

[jwhite518]

That really sucks. I hope the guy is OK.

And I hate group rides. HATE EM. I won't be leading or participating in any group rides unless the circumstances are exceptional.

 

[Hudson]

I think group rides can be done safely, but it requires a few things:

1. Know your group. No newbies unless you have a frank talk with them, and if you find out quickly they are not up to snuff, either slow it down or get someone to ride with them.

2. Impress the need to ride your own ride and ask the group to organize themselves accordingly as to speed/skill so you don't have slower guys in the same pack with faster guys

3. Discuss, at the start of the ride, what your style is, the expectations (passing, losing a leader or sweeper, hand signals), and where/when to regroup.

4. No more than 5; otherwise break into 2 groups.

I've ridden with the PNW crew and with Carver and friends at WFO, where all of us were moving pretty good, and it was one of the best rides ever. Everyone there knew their capabilities and didn't try to impress. A few (up front, and you know who you were) were really pushing hard.

The few times it didn't work well were always a violation of one of the above rules. I can think of the first and last time I rode with PNWriders (a forum usually composed of wanna bees and grizzled riders) where it was basically every person for hisself. We lost Stephen/Monroe within the first 5 minutes, and the leader's response was telling: "f'em if he can't keep up!" Needless to say I don't ride with that group.

Th one ride I led up to Canada for a day, I made the big mistake of inviting friends on cruisers who couldn't keep up (we formed 2 groups). But we formed two groups (naturally, as the cruisers were a lot slower) and it worked out fine.

Tom, it was an accident and you can't blame yourself. If you try to babysit too much, you put yourself and others at risk if you crash due to inattention to your own ride. But following those rules above will greatly diminish the chances of an incident.

Otherwise,

 

[TomInPA]

I think in general we sometimes allow too large of a group. We usually split the group when it is larger than 10-12 riders, but we have had over 30 show up for rides. That makes it tough.

We have rides scheduled every week of the year, and this is the second incident. The first was in June last year when a rider just wasn't paying enough attention and caught the gravel on the side of the road and slid out. This was potentially more serious, and was again rider inattentiveness. Could have happened anyway, group or no group. The rider is very experienced and has been on many rides with us, in fact I think he is in the group more than I am. We have about 9 of us who split up the ride-captain and sweep duties. If it becomes a burden or chore, I'll quit. Its usually a pretty good time, with the caveat the group is slow.

 

[patch308]

Uh, +1 on EVERYTHING...Cougar8000 makes an INCREDIBLY valid point on where to place bikes. Give cagers PLENTY of time to react to something (God forbid) being in the roadway where they may actualy have to stop texting and react. If there's a curve, place bikes on the approaching side of the curve. Pre-ride brief, I feel, is a must...it fills people in on possible hazards if they're not familiar with the area, reminds them to ride THEIR ride and reasures them that the ride leader will be waiting for the group at each intersection, etc. Glad to hear that's all that happened, hairline fractures heal, helmets and bikes can be replaced, and hopefully the lesson learned sticks. Not your fault, stay safe!

 

[TomInPA]

It looks like Ron will be going to live at an assisted living place for a few weeks before he can come home, hopefully close to Sacramento. Its going to be a very painful recovery, please keep him in your prayers. I didn't think he was injured this badly. :huh:

 

[beemerdons]

It looks like Ron will be going to live at an assisted living place for a few weeks before he can come home, hopefully close to Sacramento. Its going to be a very painful recovery, please keep him in your prayers. I didn't think he was injured this badly. :huh:

So very sorry to hear this Tom, Ron will be in the Prayers of The Stanley Boys!

 

[wheatonFJR]

Sorry to hear that...glad the doctors got a look at him.

 

[Joe]

He will be in my prayer also. Heal fast

Joe