had some fun with a K1600GT

[wheatonFJR]

Don,

I totally agree with you... your bike is a great one.

I just have issue with the "superior engineering" remark. Not true. I would say that they are both great engineered bikes...just 2 companies that build motorcycles very differently.

But to say that BMW's engineering is "superior"...nuh-uh.

...and that is coming from a guy, who's first lust was for a brand new 1974 BMW R90 touring bike...when I was 15. BMWs were only listed at $4000 back then.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Neat graph UP, I've got a couple of questions/obervations.

It appears that the C14 has a higher terminal speed in 5th than it does in 6th.

Is the FJR's overall gearing closer to the C14 in 5th or 6th?

Is the Beemer in 5th or 6th in this graph?

I will take a shot at your questions since I have a C14 and a 08 FJR. The FJR's 5th gear ratio is 3.92, the C14s gear ratios are 4.09 in 5th and 3.40 in 6th (I think 6th gear is much too tall, about a 3.70 gear ratio would give the same fuel economy and be more useful). The C14 has a higher terminal speed in 5th gear, I don't think it can even reach redline (10,500 rpms) even in 5th gear in stock configuration and the later models are limited to 156 mph. The C14 has a wide profile and that profile hurts its performance at higher speeds. The C14 also has secondary butterflies that limits its low speed performance, runs overly rich at the higher rpms, and has a really restrictive exhaust. Its pretty easy to add 10-15 HP with a slip on, PC, or the new ECM reflashing (which opens the butterflies much sooner) that is available.

The K1600's gear ratios are 4.12 in 5th and 3.50 in 6th, and after riding one for an hour last week, I think it is a safe bet to say that the chart reflects the K1600's performance in 6th gear.

 

[ScottyUSN]

Is there a graph that takes twisty roads into account?

Yes there is Wheatie, the Don Stanley seat of the pants Twisty-O-Meter. I now have 6K+ miles on my 2012 BMW K1600GT "Gisele" and 60K+ miles on my 2003 Yamaha FJR 1300 "Lucy Liu"!

Here is the bottom line: Both machines will turn 11 second flat quarter miles and while Lucy has a top speed of 145mph, her sister Gisele has a top speed of 155mph. Once rolling, since they are both heavy machines, they are equally nimble on twisty roads; I had a great chance to test that out in Northern New Mexico last month as Ride Leader of SW-FOG.

Acceleration, handling, top speed and all other M/C factors are so similar between both machines I almost have to look at the paint color while rolling at speed to see which machine I am on. No kidding around, their performance factors are amazingly similar to each other!

There's a great price difference: I paid $22,500 for Gisele used three months ago and I paid $13,250 OTD new for Lucy in September, 2002. But, I started riding street March of 1965, 47 years ago, and I've never once let price be a factor in to which bike I'll be purchasing next!

I will be in Castlegar, Briitsh Columbia next June for NAFO / CFR 2012, Mark I invite you to try Gisele out; you will really be surprised how closely the two machines resemble each other; Gisele weighs 50 lbs. more, but she has 15 more horsepower. Both are great motos!

If engineering includes features and function (that come at a cost) such as on the fly traction and suspension setting it's not hard to see which bike is "more modern".

Don... Assuming you are onboard the forums with many K1600 owners (not meaning to chum the water here), is the Gen-I K1600 showing any significant trends or issues for the owners?

 

[wheatonFJR]

I think people are getting mixed up between "features" on a bike and "engineering"...

a poor man's incomplete shorthand definition:

Engineering - greatest performance and reliability for least cost.

Anybody can build an expensive bike.

Some people can build a great bike...but one that is also greatly expensive.

Fewer people can build a great bike that performs well for the majority of it's intended users with components that are sufficient enough to perform the intended task well...with sufficient reliability to perform that task well for a great length of time without breakdown.

I think Yamaha's engineer's hit one out of the park with the FJR.

(Just in case you hadn't gleaned that from my prior posts )

 

[UselessPickles]

Neat graph UP, I've got a couple of questions/obervations.

It appears that the C14 has a higher terminal speed in 5th than it does in 6th.

Is the FJR's overall gearing closer to the C14 in 5th or 6th?

Is the Beemer in 5th or 6th in this graph?

I will take a shot at your questions since I have a C14 and a 08 FJR. The FJR's 5th gear ratio is 3.92, the C14s gear ratios are 4.09 in 5th and 3.40 in 6th (I think 6th gear is much too tall, about a 3.70 gear ratio would give the same fuel economy and be more useful). The C14 has a higher terminal speed in 5th gear, I don't think it can even reach redline (10,500 rpms) even in 5th gear in stock configuration and the later models are limited to 156 mph. The C14 has a wide profile and that profile hurts its performance at higher speeds. The C14 also has secondary butterflies that limits its low speed performance, runs overly rich at the higher rpms, and has a really restrictive exhaust. Its pretty easy to add 10-15 HP with a slip on, PC, or the new ECM reflashing (which opens the butterflies much sooner) that is available.

The K1600's gear ratios are 4.12 in 5th and 3.50 in 6th, and after riding one for an hour last week, I think it is a safe bet to say that the chart reflects the K1600's performance in 6th gear.

What he said...

The 6th gear on the C14 is really an overdrive gear for reducing RPMs (and probably increasing MPGs) at freeway cruising speed only. If you run through 5th gear, then shift to 6th in hopes of getting some more speed, you'll actually slow down So the C14 has more of a 5-speed transmission with overdrive, rather than a 6-speed.

The K1600GT is a bit more fuzzy. It appears that its top speed can be reached right near the top of 5th gear, but also somewhere in the middle of 6th gear (going off of memory; don't have the data with me, so I don't have exact RPMs, etc.). So its 6th gear is like a partial overdrive gear. You can reach top speed in 6th, but you won't go any faster than if you were in 5th. I used its 6th gear in the graph.

 

[SkooterG]

Here is the bottom line: Both machines will turn 11 second flat quarter miles and while Lucy has a top speed of 145mph, her sister Gisele has a top speed of 155mph.

How would you know? Have you ever had either over 120? FJR will do more than 145mph. You would know that if you actually ever tried a top speed run. FJR will do more like 155mph.

There's a great price difference: I paid $22,500 for Gisele used three months ago and I paid $13,250 OTD new for Lucy in September, 2002. But, I started riding

What you fail to mention is you got a great price on a USED BMW from a private party (no sales tax). And if you paid $13,250 OTD for your FJR you were robbed.

I don't know how you can say they feel the same. The BMW feels MUCH bigger to me.

 

[beemerdons]

I don't know how you can say they feel the same. The BMW feels is MUCH bigger to me.

Yeah SkootyG but it's because you're a "little" tiny Girlie-Man instead of muy Macho like tus primo Enrique, if you weren't such a fecking "dwarf" it'd feel better to you!

 

[beemerdons]

Is there a graph that takes twisty roads into account?

Yes there is Wheatie, the Don Stanley seat of the pants Twisty-O-Meter. I now have 6K+ miles on my 2012 BMW K1600GT "Gisele" and 60K+ miles on my 2003 Yamaha FJR 1300 "Lucy Liu"!

Here is the bottom line: Both machines will turn 11 second flat quarter miles and while Lucy has a top speed of 145mph, her sister Gisele has a top speed of 155mph. Once rolling, since they are both heavy machines, they are equally nimble on twisty roads; I had a great chance to test that out in Northern New Mexico last month as Ride Leader of SW-FOG.

Acceleration, handling, top speed and all other M/C factors are so similar between both machines I almost have to look at the paint color while rolling at speed to see which machine I am on. No kidding around, their performance factors are amazingly similar to each other!

There's a great price difference: I paid $22,500 for Gisele used three months ago and I paid $13,250 OTD new for Lucy in September, 2002. But, I started riding street March of 1965, 47 years ago, and I've never once let price be a factor in to which bike I'll be purchasing next!

I will be in Castlegar, Briitsh Columbia next June for NAFO / CFR 2012, Mark I invite you to try Gisele out; you will really be surprised how closely the two machines resemble each other; Gisele weighs 50 lbs. more, but she has 15 more horsepower. Both are great motos!

If engineering includes features and function (that come at a cost) such as on the fly traction and suspension setting it's not hard to see which bike is "more modern".

Don... Assuming you are onboard the forums with many K1600 owners (not meaning to chum the water here), is the Gen-I K1600 showing any significant trends or issues for the owners?

https://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-general-discussions/1411-heres-list-my-problems-k1600gtl-list-yours-here-too.html ScottyUSN: Here's the thread where K1600GTL and GT owners post up the problems they are having so far on their BMW's.

So far, with 15K+ miles between us, AZ Beemers Enrique Garza and Papa Chuy Viejo have not had any of these problems. Knocking on my wooden head for luck!

"Henry" Garza is my illegitimate bastard Hijo (Son) SkooterG's Primo (Cousin), the one that has a real job as a City of Mesa Firefighter/EMT instead of being a Bum!

 

[HotRodZilla]

I don't know how you can say they feel the same. The BMW feels is MUCH bigger to me.

Yeah SkootyG but that is because you are a "little" tiny Girlie-Man, if you weren't such a fecking "dwarf" it would feel better to you!

Well said Don! Who the **** asked Skooter what he thinks anyway? Why do you let him talk to you like that? Ride that Beemer over to his house and kick his scrawny ass.

 

[beemerdons]

I don't know how you can say they feel the same. The BMW feels is MUCH bigger to me.

Yeah SkootyG but that is because you are a "little" tiny Girlie-Man, if you weren't such a fecking "dwarf" it would feel better to you!

Well said Don! Who the **** asked Skooter what he thinks anyway? Why do you let him talk to you like that? Ride that Beemer over to his house and kick his scrawny ass.

+1, Gunny; es Verdad ese, SkooterG: "El Pachuco"!

On the left is my illegitmate bastard Hijo "El Pedo Feo" and on the right is mi Sobrino "El Hombre Guapo".

 

[MCRIDER007]

I don't know how you can say they feel the same. The BMW feels MUCH bigger to me.

After riding a K1600GTL in May, a K1600GT in July, and the same K1600GT again last week, I have to go with SkooterG on this one, even the smaller K1600GT is much bigger than the FJR. I don't know where Don is getting his weight figures but Motorcyclist listed the 2003 FJR at 641 lb (wet), and Cycleworld listed the K1600GT at 755 lb (wet). I don't what the actual wheelbase is for the K1600GT, I see it listed from 63 to 66 inches, but its definitely longer than the FJR and extends even further when use the front brake. My FJR seemed like a big scooter after riding the K1600GT but it was certainly more nimble going through tight corners.

 

[oldryder]

The Beemer represents some real interesting engineering but at a substantial cost premium. worth it if you want all the newest goodies and can live with the inevitable long term high maintenance costs.

The multi-function thumbwheel switch is really cool but I shudder to think what it'll cost to replace when it fails It strikes me as a complicated design that IMHO will be prone to failure. A dealer told me an ABS failure on an RT1200 was over $2000 and I've no reason to expect it to be any cheaper on the 1600.

thanks but I'll stick to the FJR.

 

[UselessPickles]

I don't know where Don is getting his weight figures but Motorcyclist listed the 2003 FJR at 641 lb (wet), and Cycleworld listed the K1600GT at 755 lb (wet).

I think there's a lot confusion about the weights. Not only is there the normal wet vs. dry weight confusion potential, but there's also the with/without bags confusion with both bikes, and the potential to confuse weights between the K1600GT and the K1600GTL.

The official BMW spec sheet for the K1600GT lists the wet weight at 703lbs (excluding options and accessories). I believe this excludes side cases. I've also come across something that said that the BMW wet weights do not include a full tank of gas, but rather something like 80% or 90% full.

I don't what the actual wheelbase is for the K1600GT, I see it listed from 63 to 66 inches

The same spec sheet I linked above says 66.1 inches. The FJR has a 60.6 inch (2006-2008) or 60.8 (2009+) wheelbase according to the FJR model comparison matrix (is this really correct?). Don't know about prior to 2006 (Gen I).

 

[Old Michael]

... Don't know about prior to 2006 (Gen I).

Who cares?

This thread's about modern motorcycles.

 

[user 6393]

... Don't know about prior to 2006 (Gen I).

Who cares?

This thread's about modern motorcycles.

:assassin:

 

[wheatonFJR]

... Don't know about prior to 2006 (Gen I).

Who cares?

This thread's about modern motorcycles.

AND...by modern motorcycles, you mean ones with vibrating seats I suppose.

 

[SacramentoMike]

...so I'm cruising through the desert a couple of weeks ago, minding my own business, loafing along on my FJR at about 60.

Well, up in the sky behind me comes this smartass Air Force dude in his fancy, over-priced F-15. He pulls alongside me and we size each other up.

Pffft. This guy obviously doesn't know what he's dealing with. I downshift into 2nd and you shoulda seen the look on his face!

............jus' sayin'.

Shit! Same thing happened to me except the plane was upside down right over my head and the freakin' pilot flipped me the bird! I heard he got his though. He was showing off and flew through another jet's stream and killed his partner during an ejection!

Sad story. On a much happier note, camping a few years back, sitting around a picnic table and discussing a wide range of topics, the wife of one of the guys (and she's blonde--honest) commented that her father ejaculated over North Korea. It was really quite a while before anyone spoke. Or could.

I think I need me a ZX-14 with its superior engineering...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think people are getting mixed up between "features" on a bike and "engineering"...

a poor man's incomplete shorthand definition:

Engineering - greatest performance and reliability for least cost.

Anybody can build an expensive bike.

Some people can build a great bike...but one that is also greatly expensive.

Fewer people can build a great bike that performs well for the majority of it's intended users with components that are sufficient enough to perform the intended task well...with sufficient reliability to perform that task well for a great length of time without breakdown.

I think Yamaha's engineer's hit one out of the park with the FJR.

(Just in case you hadn't gleaned that from my prior posts )

True dat, Mark. But aren't Harleys expensive? :huh:

 

[Nitro]

In April some buddys, my brother and I went to the Laughlin River Run. It is a full on Pirate Parade, but we always have fun, so we go.

We had gone on a ride to this little town called Oatman that is outside of Bullhead City on the Arizona side.

On the way back, there was this small group of bikes we were hitting the lights with. This one guy would hammer it from red light to red light, but always end up stopped with us. Same deal with the open pipes, so I thought I'd be funny and let him know he wasn't impressing me.

At the next light, I left him way behind and like him, got caught at the next red. He slowed up a bit, but at the next light, some tool pulled up between us on this big loud chopper. He proceeded to rev the bike to let me know he had about 70 horses dancing under that tank.

So...He raced off. I, of course, being the ass that I am rode next to him until he looked over...Then I pinned the throttle and smoked him.

Patch308 was next to him at that point and nearly fell off his bike laughing because when I hit it, the guy got this dejected look, shook his head and just slowed down.

Of course, we all stopped at the red light to make the left turn over the bridge and into Laughlin. That gut pulled up next to me, gave me that meek, "What's up" wave and then calmly pulled out ahead of me and made his turn. He was done proving himself...

Haha...Assholes racing on the roads. Where the Hell are the cops when you need them??

Ha ha, that brings back memories. I used to live in Bullhead City. Worked in a parts store at the time. During the yearly "Laughlin Run" we sold a lot of nuts, bolts, loctite and 6 cyl. chevy points. Invaribly there would always be at least three Harley's usually more with parts missing or about to fall off and being wrenched on in our parking lot.