Hard start/No start around the freezing mark

[900gc]

First time in 20 mo. of ownership the bike has given me trouble starting. Bike sits in my 70 deg. garage over night, starts right up. Bike sits outside in 30ish deg. all day, no start up; cranked strongly but no catch until letting it sit a few min., tried again then finally started.

Did a search on forum and Google, found some comments but had a few questions still:

1. Is this a symptom that occurs when this cold common to the FJR?

2. Could this be caused by the "winter" gas here in N. England? Moisture in gas? Bad tank(s) of gas?

3. The battery is original and appears to crank strongly but would a "slightly weak" battery cause this problem? (terminals clean and tight)

4. Is there some starting technique that works better when this cold beside just hitting the starter button?

The bike is ridden almost every day for about a 50 mi. round trip commute to work. I've never run any fuel additive/cleaner stuff through it...yet. Maybe I should? 27K mi. on bike.

Thanks.

 

[Ignacio]

Summer fuel leftover in tank? We're on the season shoulder where they switch to winter fuel blend.

 

[JamesK]

Would not hurt in the slightest, to run a bottle or two of SeaFoam through the tank

 

[RossKean]

+1 on a fuel system cleaner like Seafoam. Residual moisture in the system will give you some problems when the temperature drops but gas line freezing is less of a problem in these days of ethanol in gasoline. That is, of course, assuming that there is not enough water to cause phase separation. That gets really messy.

+1 on better starting performance with "winter blend" gas. Winter gas has a higher proportion of volatiles.

+1 on battery - a very likely culprit normally but not as likely if it cranks strongly without odometer/clock reset

What viscosity oil are you using? The Rotella synthetic (5W40) flows better than a 20W50 in colder temperatures

To answer your question - it is not a common problem at modest temperatures; high 20's to low 30's. At least not in my experience.

In cold weather starting, I will sometimes give the throttle a bit of a tweak while cranking. Don't know if it helps but I haven't had any problems yet and I am still on the original battery ('07 and 105,000 miles). Other than with startup after a winter's layover, startup after tank-off maintenance or a cold restart (shutoff without letting the engine warm up), I don't think I have ever had to crank it more than 5 seconds.

 

[Fred W]

First time in 20 mo. of ownership the bike has given me trouble starting. Bike sits in my 70 deg. garage over night, starts right up. Bike sits outside in 30ish deg. all day, no start up; cranked strongly but no catch until letting it sit a few min., tried again then finally started.

Ross has done a good job in answering all of the questions in your list. I'll just add an opinion based on the bolded statement above. If it cranked strongly, I would not be suspecting the battery. Usually a battery that isn't delivering the CCA's in cold weather will result in a bike that turns over slower than normal. Same would generally be true if the oil was too heavy when cold.

I have noticed that, for some unknown reason, not all gas stations have switched over to winter blend fuel in New England. Some have, and others have not (yet), so there must be a glut of summer fuel leftover in the supply chain this year. I can always tell when they have switched over on the FJR as the bike goes into reserve about 20 miles sooner than the normal 200 miles.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Seafoam, Seafoam, Seafoam!

Have you ever changed your plugs?

Dave

 

[ionbeam]

Once it does start, is it running at high idle speed, and what is that idle speed? Does it run smoothly when it starts?

The previous posts address the possibility of lower fuel volatility, fuel starvation (fuel cleaner to fix possibly plugged injectors) and battery condition. Just to balance things out, there is a possibility that it was flooded. This is not an unheard of occurrence with the FJR. The fix is easy, hold the throttle wide open and crank in short bursts and it will start. The fact that it starts after standing for a few minutes may point more toward flooding on a cold start where fuel enrichment is at maximum.

 

[Afast03nNJ]

Check the resistance of the engine coolant temp sensor when it's cold.

 

[ionbeam]

Check the resistance of the engine coolant temp sensor when it's cold.

This can be done by reading the value in diAG.

 

[RossKean]

Check the resistance of the engine coolant temp sensor when it's cold.

Why? I understand that if the ECU "thinks" the engine is hot, it will not provide an appropriate mixture to a cold engine. A bad sensor would show up in Diag mode but also on the dash temperature readout.

 

[900gc]

Thanks Guys.

Lets see:

I run T-6 Rotella 5W-40, though the 8oz. of STP goop I add may make it 10W

Plugs are Iridium with 10 K mi. on them

Idle is set to 1100 rpm

I'll check the temp sensor but nothing had indicated that that is NG.

Battery voltage checks good at rest, only cranks a little slower (like everything does) @ freezing temp.

Maybe the gas is contributing because come to think of it, I've filled up at the same station for the last mo. on a weekly basis, so could be they still have summer blend. I'll run Sea Foam through it for 2-3 tanks and try a different station and see what happens.

 

[garyahouse]

First time in 20 mo. of ownership the bike has given me trouble starting. Bike sits in my 70 deg. garage over night, starts right up. Bike sits outside in 30ish deg. all day, no start up; cranked strongly but no catch until letting it sit a few min., tried again then finally started.

...If it cranked strongly, I would not be suspecting the battery.

I agree with this. I've done quite a bit of battery testing on my FJR and have become rather familiar with how my Gen 1 starts when the battery is weak. There comes a certain point where it will turn over, but it will not start. My FJR is very consistent. It always starts if there is at least a certain amount of voltage, as evidenced by a high enough cranking speed. However, on my bike at least, at the point where it will not start, it is cranking significantly slower and showing a much lower voltage, which can be heard easily. There is no question that at this battery level, you can hear that it's barely cranking.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[900gc]

UPDATE:

Must have been fuel. Changed to a different gas station, ran SeaFoam through 2 tanks, has started perfectly ever since even below freezing. I have to admit though that my enthusiasm to ride drops in proportion to the temperature as it gets in the 20's!

 

[JamesK]

UPDATE:Must have been fuel. Changed to a different gas station, ran SeaFoam through 2 tanks, has started perfectly ever since even below freezing. I have to admit though that my enthusiasm to ride drops in proportion to the temperature as it gets in the 20's!

Good to hear you solved the problem.As for riding in cold weather, all you need is some heated gear, than the only thing you need to worry about is black ice, because you're so comfy and warm that you can easily forget how cold it actually is.

https://www.warmnsafe.com/ This stuff just works

 

[Fred W]

Yup the key to winter riding in the northeast can be summarized in two words: Heated Gear.

Do it. You'll wonder why you waited so long. And I second James' recco on the WarmnSafe (aka First Gear)

 

[900gc]

Now that's a winter ride James! Did you debate taking the snowmobile instead?

Actually I have been enjoying the benefits of heated gear since the 80's (and now gloves for the first time to go with the heated grips

). It's more the fear of icing conditions during my night time commute to work that can make me a little nervous, otherwise I do enjoy a brisk ride on a dry, clear DAY.

 

[Northwoods Snowman]

What do you guys have to do to set up your bike for cold weather operation? I had to move in December and I tried to start my bike in temps around zero (F) to load it and all it did was try and crank over a few times and then the starter solenoid would start clicking. Had the battery tender on it so I don't think it was the battery failing. I suspect the oil was like molasses. Can't remember what viscosity I have in it right now, what ever is recommended for summer.

 

[PhilJet09]

Sounds like you have a bad battery. Just because it's been on the tender doesn't mean it didn't die on you. I'll bet fresh gas and a new battery solves your problem. I'd definitely change to a winter weight oil though.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Combo of battery and oil viscosity...oil is like molasses at those temps.

--G