Harley accident

[cctxfjr]

was at a farm and ranch auction north of LLano in the Texas hill country this weekend when somebody turning in the auction yard pulling a gooseneck trailer turned in front of a man and woman on a big Harley. Real bad accident not sure if they made it woman had extensive facial injuries and severe damage to jaw,teeth, nose and eyes along with numerous other injuries including broken limbs. man was pretty well broken up including a suspected broken back. They flew them out-pretty grim picture and hard to keep from thinking about it. No helmets or riding gear only do rags. Makes me think that hot full face I wear is not so uncomfortable after all in the Texas heat.

 

[James Burleigh]

Terrible news. I'm sorry to hear it. Two folks out for a fun day on the bike. I'm seeing a lot of riders (mostly but not only on Harleys) wearing what I call their "summer riding gear," namely, flip-flops, shorts, and t-shirt. Every time I see one I think to myself, "I guess you're not planning on crashing today." And you're right, that full-face feels pretty good in the heat after all.

Have you got any further insight into the circumstances of the accident?

Jb

 

[noob]

very sad indeed. Doesn't sound too promising for them.

Seems many riders aren't prepared for the 'worst case scenario', not only

in their gear but also riding skills. I see them all the time in MSF classes.

Hoping for the best for these two unfortunate riders.

 

[cctxfjr]

Terrible news. I'm sorry to hear it. Two folks out for a fun day on the bike. I'm seeing a lot of riders (mostly but not only on Harleys) wearing what I call their "summer riding gear," namely, flip-flops, shorts, and t-shirt. Every time I see one I think to myself, "I guess you're not planning on crashing today." And you're right, that full-face feels pretty good in the heat after all.
Have you got any further insight into the circumstances of the accident?

Jb

It was a 2 lane straight country road with vehicles parked in both ditches the bike was traveling well below legal speed. The pickup was oncoming and had turned right off the roadway toward the ditch to allow for the turn (swing) radius of his gooseneck trailer and then turned hard left to enter the gate entrance of the auction and completely blocking the roadway with his trailer. The bike struck the side of the trailer about midway of the trailer length. I suspect that contributed to the severe injuries due to the height of the trailer from the ground and the trailer sides being structrual steel there was nothing to absorb the force of the impact but the bike and riders. The driver never saw the bike, perhaps the traffic (pickups and trailers)parked in both ditches blocked or confused his line of vision and prevented him from seeing the bike. Have not heard if charges were file- in Texas they generally wait for DUI tests before (if) any charges are filed.

 

[cctxfjr]

Terrible news. I'm sorry to hear it. Two folks out for a fun day on the bike. I'm seeing a lot of riders (mostly but not only on Harleys) wearing what I call their "summer riding gear," namely, flip-flops, shorts, and t-shirt. Every time I see one I think to myself, "I guess you're not planning on crashing today." And you're right, that full-face feels pretty good in the heat after all.
Have you got any further insight into the circumstances of the accident?

Jb

It was a 2 lane straight country road with vehicles parked in both ditches the bike was traveling well below legal speed. The pickup was oncoming and had turned right off the roadway toward the ditch to allow for the turn (swing) radius of his gooseneck trailer and then turned hard left to enter the gate entrance of the auction and completely blocking the roadway with his trailer. The bike struck the side of the trailer about midway of the trailer length. I suspect that contributed to the severe injuries due to the height of the trailer from the ground and the trailer sides being structrual steel there was nothing to absorb the force of the impact but the bike and riders. The driver never saw the bike, perhaps the traffic (pickups and trailers)parked in both ditches blocked or confused his line of vision and prevented him from seeing the bike. Have not heard if charges were file- in Texas they generally wait for DUI tests before (if) any charges are filed.

James forgot to add it was 5PM clear bright sunny day

 

[FJRMGM]

man, that sucks.

The Hill country has many hazards and turning vehicles is but one of them.

 

[xharleyrider]

man, that sucks.
The Hill country has many hazards and turning vehicles is but one of them.

Reminds me of an accident I was behind a few years ago in Hill country. This group of riders were about 1/4 mile ahead of us when I saw a cloud of dirt. Sure enough came up to a bad accident. The Ulta Classic the hubsand and wife were on hit a doe throwing them both off the bike. I stoped to give aid since I have a clinical background. ( I would of stopped any how ) The woman was in the middle of the road, she hit her head on the pavement. NO HELMET! He was thrown to the side of the road, grass area face down. NO HELMET! I ran to her first, she had pretty much cracked her skull wide open and had a huge puddle of blood. I knew she was not going to make it. I then ran to him turned him over with the aid of my friends as if he was on a back board and established an airway. He was breathing in a lot of pain, hard to ***** what was broken. He was thrown a long distance I am sure something was broken! They were both chopped out to Austin trauma center. I later heard that night that she died in route, and he had a broken back.

I never judge others who don't wear helmuts. It's a choice, but I know she would of survived if she had one on! He was lucky to land in a grassy area to help with the impact otherwise he would of died as well!

 

[cctxfjr]

man, that sucks.
The Hill country has many hazards and turning vehicles is but one of them.

Reminds me of an accident I was behind a few years ago in Hill country. This group of riders were about 1/4 mile ahead of us when I saw a cloud of dirt. Sure enough came up to a bad accident. The Ulta Classic the hubsand and wife were on hit a doe throwing them both off the bike. I stoped to give aid since I have a clinical background. ( I would of stopped any how ) The woman was in the middle of the road, she hit her head on the pavement. NO HELMET! He was thrown to the side of the road, grass area face down. NO HELMET! I ran to her first, she had pretty much cracked her skull wide open and had a huge puddle of blood. I knew she was not going to make it. I then ran to him turned him over with the aid of my friends as if he was on a back board and established an airway. He was breathing in a lot of pain, hard to ***** what was broken. He was thrown a long distance I am sure something was broken! They were both chopped out to Austin trauma center. I later heard that night that she died in route, and he had a broken back.

I never judge others who don't wear helmuts. It's a choice, but I know she would of survived if she had one on! He was lucky to land in a grassy area to help with the impact otherwise he would of died as well!

I tried to check on their condition nothing in print yet-they were flown to Austin trauma center (first of two bad accidents in that area this past weekend no details of second accident other than another man and woman were involved and also choppered out to Austin ) -deer strike risk in Texas hill country is probably the highest in USA most of the experienced riders I know myself included will not ride dawn, dusk or night time in Texas hill country

 

[Bounce]

we have an office group that rides at least one weekend a month. they've been bugging me about why i've not been riding to work since i broke my finger. i tried to explain to them that my glove doesn't fit with the splint in place. some understand but the do-raggers sometimes get this blank look.

 

[Bull]

It sure is a shame when riders like the two featured in this thread get caught up in this type of worst case scenario - and it sure looks like it's not their fault at all. Sad.

As a sidebar - on the topic of wearing full face and good protection - I have four wonderful reasons to wear all the best protective kit when I ride.

My wife and three great kids. I like to tuck them in every night.

I've heard many stories on this forum and across in 'face plant' where good folks have taken a tumble or slide whilst wearing ATGATT (sometimes their own 'fault', sometimes not) - and some of them get up and dust themselves down - then thank their lucky stars and all their respective Gods (often inclulding Darien - the God of elbow skin, and Shoei, the God of un-cracked skulls, etc.....)

sorry for the hi-jack friends - but I heard once - no-one ever plans to crash - but it's true that some of us do. If my number ever comes up, the last thing I want going through my head whilst airborne is the thought, "Wish I was wearing my full face today....."

ride safe dudes - Bull

 

[Sherman]

It sure is a shame when riders like the two featured in this thread get caught up in this type of worst case scenario - and it sure looks like it's not their fault at all. Sad.
As a sidebar - on the topic of wearing full face and good protection - I have four wonderful reasons to wear all the best protective kit when I ride.

My wife and three great kids. I like to tuck them in every night.

I've heard many stories on this forum and across in 'face plant' where good folks have taken a tumble or slide whilst wearing ATGATT (sometimes their own 'fault', sometimes not) - and some of them get up and dust themselves down - then thank their lucky stars and all their respective Gods (often inclulding Darien - the God of elbow skin, and Shoei, the God of un-cracked skulls, etc.....)

sorry for the hi-jack friends - but I heard once - no-one ever plans to crash - but it's true that some of us do. If my number ever comes up, the last thing I want going through my head whilst airborne is the thought, "Wish I was wearing my full face today....."

ride safe dudes - Bull

Even from just the scant information we have I cannot agree that it is not his fault.

If you are on a 2 lane road with cars and truck on both sides of the road that is a big warning that there may be heavy foot traffic. I always assume that there could be a child ready to come out from between the cars onto the road. 5 to 10 MPH is a good rule of thumb for these situations.

The truck/ trailer was probably not invisable. WTF could the biker be thinking about to broadside a trailer?

We know that drivers are out to kill us, and he was responsible for his passenger's life - he failed her. Then we have the irresponsible no-gear issue, another lapse in judgment.

Sounds like excessive speed for the conditions. You are not allowed to hit someone just because they are in your lane. We are the only one's responsible for our survival. I believe that it was avoidable and therefore completely his fault.

Bruce

 

[FJRMGM]

The truck/ trailer was probably not invisable. WTF could the biker be thinking about to broadside a trailer?

You are not familiar with the Texas Hill Country terrain. Lots of short, blind corners, short, steep hills with driveways right at or on the other side of the top of the hill and very limited sight lines.

This could happen very easily.

Almost happened to me out there two years ago. Cruising along one of those nice roads at a pace that was right on or maybe five miles above limit and watching for this situation. Came up over the top of one of those "hog back" hills and there was a pickup - pulling out of a driveway on my right and turning towards me - with a lowboy trailer attached that was completely across the road.

I hit the brakes HARD and stopped OK only about five feet from the trailer.

BUT, if I had been going faster or had not been looking for it or not using all the brakes I had I could/would have run right into the damned thing.

I always keep that little near-miss in mind when I am riding out there now.

 

[James Burleigh]

sorry for the hi-jack friends - but I heard once - no-one ever plans to crash - but it's true that some of us do. If my number ever comes up, the last thing I want going through my head whilst airborne is the thought, "Wish I was wearing my full face today....."

I'll say it again: rely on the three degrees of separation (Pat Hahn):

1. Good strategies: Select the correct speed and lane position, given the circumstances of hill country, heavy parked cars, etc. If strategies fail you, then rely on:

2. Good skills: braking and swerving skill. Was the rider's skill where it needed to be for stopping in time. Harleys are also pretty poor on the brakes. If skill fails you, then rely on:

3. Good gear: ATGATT. If gear fails you, then, well, you got nothing left except luck.

Looks like degree 3 was not in place. Were any of them? I tend to go with the default "it was the rider's fault," because if I didn't believe that I was responsible for my safety in 99.9% of situations, or to put it another way, if I believed that my life was more than .1% in the hands of the ******* idiots driving cars, then I would not ride a motorcycle.

I'm sorry, but I cannot fathom the mentality of people who ride without helmets. Hell, I won't ever wear a half helmet. I don't want to lose my face any more than my brain!

Jb

 

[jmdaniel]

You are not familiar with the Texas Hill Country terrain. Lots of short, blind corners, short, steep hills with driveways right at or on the other side of the top of the hill and very limited sight lines.
This could happen very easily.

While I agree that your description of the terrain here applies in some areas, it's impossible to say, without having been there, that it applied in this case. What I think should have tipped off the driver, from the original description, were the cars and trucks on both sides of the road. We've all seen that at an auction site, no matter what part of the country the auction is being held. That alone should tell a driver to slow down and be careful.

My wife works at the trauma center ER here, but wasn't that day. If you want to see NoGATT, c'mon down for the ROT rally, weekend after next! :blink:

 

[cctxfjr]

You are not familiar with the Texas Hill Country terrain. Lots of short, blind corners, short, steep hills with driveways right at or on the other side of the top of the hill and very limited sight lines.
This could happen very easily.

While I agree that your description of the terrain here applies in some areas, it's impossible to say, without having been there, that it applied in this case. What I think should have tipped off the driver, from the original description, were the cars and trucks on both sides of the road. We've all seen that at an auction site, no matter what part of the country the auction is being held. That alone should tell a driver to slow down and be careful.

My wife works at the trauma center ER here, but wasn't that day. If you want to see NoGATT, c'mon down for the ROT rally, weekend after next! :blink:

any way of knowing their condition? the crashed happened May 30th 5PM on Hwy 16 north of Llano directly in front of Duncan Auctioneers

 

[k7lvo]

Even from just the scant information we have I cannot agree that it is not his fault.
If you are on a 2 lane road with cars and truck on both sides of the road that is a big warning that there may be heavy foot traffic. I always assume that there could be a child ready to come out from between the cars onto the road. 5 to 10 MPH is a good rule of thumb for these situations.

The truck/ trailer was probably not invisable. WTF could the biker be thinking about to broadside a trailer?

We know that drivers are out to kill us, and he was responsible for his passenger's life - he failed her. Then we have the irresponsible no-gear issue, another lapse in judgment.

Sounds like excessive speed for the conditions. You are not allowed to hit someone just because they are in your lane. We are the only one's responsible for our survival. I believe that it was avoidable and therefore completely his fault.

Bruce

IMO, you're confusing "at fault" with defensive riding/driving. (Insurance companies like to do this because it allows them to raise EVERYONE's rates, not just the "at fault" drivers/riders.) Could the rider have taken precautions and possibly have prevented the wreck? Sure, but that doesn't make it his fault. I worked for a state police agency as a civilian technician for over a decade and got to read the report of every fatal wreck that happened. I read them to LEARN from them. For example, if I'm riding down the highway and a car blows a stop sign from a side street and takes me out, is it my fault? Of course not. However, if I could see the car approaching the intersection without slowing, should I figure that he's gonna slam on his brakes at the last second, or should I take action to avoid arriving at the intersection at the same time that he does, just in case? I always remember that it will hurt just as much no matter whose fault it was.

One other very recent example: A couple of weeks ago a couple were riding their Gold Wing along the Oregon coast. They were northbound which meant that the coast was to their left, as were all of the viewpoints and turnouts. When they stopped to turn left into a turnout, they were rearended by a car. The lady was killed instantly and the man died 10 days later when they removed life support. Was this their fault? Certainly not! Will it change the way I ride/drive? Yes! For as long as I can remember I've tried to keep an eye out in my mirrors when slowing or stopping on a roadway, whether for a left turn, traffic jam, or whatever. I've "abandoned" left turns a lot of times due to people coming up behind me faster than I was comfortable with. After this sad event I will be even more vigilant, and will aviod left turns through traffic more than I used to. Life is too short to experience every mistake myself!

 

[Bull]

"Life is too short to experience every mistake myself!"

I have to agree with K7LVO here - you can be 100% correct and still be 100% dead at the very same instant.

 

[FJRMGM]

You are not familiar with the Texas Hill Country terrain. Lots of short, blind corners, short, steep hills with driveways right at or on the other side of the top of the hill and very limited sight lines.
This could happen very easily.

While I agree that your description of the terrain here applies in some areas, it's impossible to say, without having been there, that it applied in this case. What I think should have tipped off the driver, from the original description, were the cars and trucks on both sides of the road. We've all seen that at an auction site, no matter what part of the country the auction is being held. That alone should tell a driver to slow down and be careful.

My wife works at the trauma center ER here, but wasn't that day. If you want to see NoGATT, c'mon down for the ROT rally, weekend after next! :blink:

I agree - we were out riding in the country and came up to a livestock auction barn and I was in the lead and slowed "just because".

Sure enough - out from the middle of a group of vehicles on the right side came a truck pulling a trailer - and he turned left towards us. If we had not been watching for it and aware it could have been bad.

360 degree awareness at all times on the bike.