Harley-Davidson Seeks Bank Bailout Funds

[PapaUtah]

This one looks just like your's Mike. $30,000 invested. $20,000 takes it home. 9,920 miles on it. At least the guy rode it!

2008 H-D, $30K in, $20K OBO out.

Stage II Screamin' Chicken kit already installed. Probably 85hp or so. Spyder bet watch out for this one!

 

[08FJR4ME]

What options do US citizens have to stop this misappropriation of funds? Any lawyers here? The idea that I go to work everyday to help out these over priced *** bags makes me want to vomit.

+1

Same options we have allways had, Bend over. :russian_roulette:

 

[dcarver]

oops, my bad, Never Mind!

 

[SockMonkey]

Just to be clear, this thread was not intended to be an H-D bash of any sort. As far as that goes, an XR1200 would be quite welcome in my garage. The point of the post was/is that the economic crunch is effecting everyone from all walks. By its end, no-one will be left unscathed. But as a matter of personal opinion, I'm loathe to agree with the bailout of a financial entity that finances what would otherwise be classified as a leisure or luxury item. I just don't feel good about my tax dollars being spent in such a manner. The same would be true if either HSBC or GE Money Bank (Yamaha's consumer credit partners) asked for bailout funds.

 

[dcarver]

Just to be clear, this thread was not intended to be an H-D bash of any sort. As far as that goes, an XR1200 would be quite welcome in my garage. The point of the post was/is that the economic crunch is effecting everyone from all walks. By its end, no-one will be left unscathed. But as a matter of personal opinion, I'm loathe to agree with the bailout of a financial entity that finances what would otherwise be classified as a leisure or luxury item. I just don't feel good about my tax dollars being spent in such a manner. The same would be true if either HSBC or GE Money Bank (Yamaha's consumer credit partners) asked for bailout funds.

Thank You for the reality check Mr. SockMonkey; - I simply flared and posted in anger. My bad, post deleted, your good - Thanks for keeping it real. :clapping:

 

[MikeYork5]

This one looks just like your's Mike. $30,000 invested. $20,000 takes it home. 9,920 miles on it. At least the guy rode it!
2008 H-D, $30K in, $20K OBO out.

Stage II Screamin' Chicken kit already installed. Probably 85hp or so. Spyder bet watch out for this one!

Well as usual I appreciate your concern an open mindness - it's refreshing here of the FJR forum. Eighty-five or 67 hp is all I need to get me from point A to point B at this point in my life - enjoy.

 

[MikeYork5]

Just to be clear, this thread was not intended to be an H-D bash of any sort. As far as that goes, an XR1200 would be quite welcome in my garage. The point of the post was/is that the economic crunch is effecting everyone from all walks. By its end, no-one will be left unscathed. But as a matter of personal opinion, I'm loathe to agree with the bailout of a financial entity that finances what would otherwise be classified as a leisure or luxury item. I just don't feel good about my tax dollars being spent in such a manner. The same would be true if either HSBC or GE Money Bank (Yamaha's consumer credit partners) asked for bailout funds.

Nice thought, but as you probably know, anytime HD is mentioned on this site it evolves into a an HD bash, but hey it IS the FJR forum!

 

[odot]

Don't fret it, york.....this forum will bash anything other then fjrs. Heck, they even bash gay pups. Ask bustanutjoker how his feelings are handling it. Or, even renojohn, kansaskiddielover, Dcarver....them pups cry themselves to sleep everynight. This forum is disgusting. Damn haters.

 

[RenoJohn]

Don't fret it, york.....this forum will bash anything other then fjrs. Heck, they even bash gay pups. Ask bustanutjoker how his feelings are handling it. Or, even renojohn, kansaskiddielover, Dcarver....them pups cry themselves to sleep everynight. This forum is disgusting. Damn haters.

While paying for these expensive machines (HD) is a tall order ......it really pales in comparison to the genuine hardest part of Harley Davidson ownership:

"Telling your parents that you're gay"

OK, so not intended as harley bashing on the FJR forum ...rather just one of my favorite jokes that I tell when around HD galz.

 

[PapaUtah]

It's not just The Motor Company®. Yamaha Motor has this kind of talk swirling around it...

"…recession in developed nations has started to knock on to emerging economies, and earnings are worsening in all Yamaha’s business units…"

"…double-digit declines in European and US demand for motorcycles, ATVs, and outboard motors…demand in Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Brazil, and other emerging nations has also turned down double digits..."

"...the high-tech recession is taking toll, surface chip-mounters are suffering…sharp downturn…"

"...factors that could help US sales bottom are being swept away."

"...Yamaha Motor needs to implement a full-scale restructuring program.."

And Yamaha Motor released this little diddy on Friday..

Yamaha Motor Co. said Friday it will suspend production at 11 domestic plants for seven to 10 days in February and March.

The major motorcycle manufacturer has decided to cut production of motorcycles, water motorcycles and components because demand for such products has declined amid the global economic downturn.

 

[RAVENRIDER]

This is sad to say, but I just wouldn't miss H-D if it went the way of the dinosaurs. Never got so much mindless attitude at a dealership in my life.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

This one looks just like your's Mike. $30,000 invested. $20,000 takes it home. 9,920 miles on it. At least the guy rode it!
2008 H-D, $30K in, $20K OBO out.

Stage II Screamin' Chicken kit already installed. Probably 85hp or so. Spyder bet watch out for this one!

*******************************

I'd say that if he gets anywhere close to the 20K he's asking, his cost per mile will be lower than most of the sellers out there. Assuming he gets his asking price of 20K ... 30K invested less the 20K sale price divided by 9920 miles = $1.01/mile . I did some calculations based on "total invested" vs miles vs asking price on some of those ads. Most came out to almost $2.00 per mile ( and that dont include whatever interest was accumulated on the loan and insurance paid). Factor in those missing pieces, and I bet some of those bikes are running well over $3.00 per mile to own. Pretty expensive just to say you are a HOG.

My own brother in law has had his well farkled 2003 Deuce for sale for well over a year...started out asking $16,000 and his latest ad is down to $12,000, and no bites on it. He claims he has over 22K invested. I think he only has 9-10K on the odometer.

Don't know about the rest of you guys out there (save for the millionaires), but I can't/won't spend money on a bike that costs me $2.00+ a mile to own and is not ridden enough to even get any enjoyment out of.

I just calculated my ownership costs of my 2004 FJR that I sold recently based on the same factors as the above ad. My cost per mile was $.06/mile. ( total invested - selling price / mileage). We are talking about owning a bike of equal or greater quality/comfort/performance/looks for only 6% of the cost?

I am not trying to bash HD, but maybe it's because I am an accountant, but that kinda financial decision making just dont make sense or do it for me. Guess I 'm just a hard case

 

[wfooshee]

^^^^^^^ THANK YOU!!!!

I've been trying to find a way to say that and couldn't quite put it into words that made sense.

H-D makes no bikes I see as anything remotely resembling good value.

In your figuring, you're just doing (buy-sell)/miles, right? Not even considering operating costs for gas, oil, tires, gear, whatever? So just depreciation is 2 or 3 bucks a mile??!?!?! Makes you laugh when they use the word "invested" in their ads, doesn't it?

I worked up my bike (purchased used) with all that factored in, and if I threw my bike off the end of a pier right now, my total cost of ownership, with gas, oil, tires, gear, GPS, insurance, all of it, is right at 50 cents a mile. If I sold it for anything close to its actual value that goes under a quarter.

(If I threw it off a pier I'd probably take some farkles off first, so drop that first number a bit, and it was a used bike, so I didn't eat any depreciation.)

Using your (price-sell)/miles, the original owner, who bought it new, ran about a dime a mile, no operating cost figured in. Myself, depreciation only (estimated) would be under 3 cents a mile, since I got it used.

Getting back to the original topic, though, I see no justification for a federal bailout for HD. They don't make a "necessary" product, they don't employ or cause to be employed (meaning suppliers) hundreds of thousands or even millions of people.

The Big Three bailout is being justified as the lesser of two evils, bail them out or put "millions" of folks out of work. H-D doesn't even begin to approach an economic impact of that magnitude. If they lent money to folks who could barely afford the bikes even in good times, that's just a bad business decision they'll have to live with. They're not worth public money just for the alvation of an "icon."

Maybe they shouldn't oughta messed with MV Augusta. . . . .

 

[PapaUtah]

^^^^^^^ THANK YOU!!!!
I've been trying to find a way to say that and couldn't quite put it into words that made sense.

Ahh Grasshopper! You have made the mistake that many do about Harley-Davidson®. Once you see the light it all makes sense. h34r: :assassin:

In the immortal words of Jeff Bluenstein, former President of The Motor Company®, "Sir, at Harley-Davidson® we do not sell motorcycles. We sell a lifestyle and an image. The motorcycle is secondary in that transaction."

In that light the rebirth of Harley-Davidson® over the past 15 years has been one of the greatest marketing jobs the planet has ever seen.

 

[DeweyIsgod]

The Big Three bailout is being justified as the lesser of two evils, bail them out or put "millions" of folks out of work. H-D doesn't even begin to approach an economic impact of that magnitude. If they lent money to folks who could barely afford the bikes even in good times, that's just a bad business decision they'll have to live with. They're not worth public money just for the alvation of an "icon."

A quick look at the HD balance sheet shows that they've got about $4.3 billion in finance receivables - up over by $1 b over earlier this year. Also, their corporate debt is up by about $1 b...meaning they (read HD investors and managers) chose to bear the risk of financing sales themselves instead of reselling those customer notes in a secondary market with the appropriate discount for default and collection risk. I'd have a hard time believing that more 25% of their financing is noncollectable which means that HD has enough money (or will collect enough) to pay it's debt. They don't need a bailout to stay in business.

Bailout funds make a lot of sense when it means that financial markets keep functioning. A bailout of HD would only serve to protect the shareholders in HD...i.e. the same people who chose this path.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...I bet some of those bikes are running well over $3.00 per mile to own. Pretty expensive just to say you are a HOG....I can't/won't spend money on a bike that costs me $2.00+ a mile to own and is not ridden enough to even get any enjoyment out of.

I just calculated my ownership costs of my 2004 FJR that I sold recently based on the same factors as the above ad. My cost per mile was $.06/mile. ( total invested - selling price / mileage). We are talking about owning a bike of equal or greater quality/comfort/performance/looks for only 6% of the cost?

...I am an accountant, ...that kinda financial decision making just don't make sense or do it for me.

This from someone I know who's a hard-core H-D fan:

"My Road Glide was one of the cheapest bikes I ever owned. ...I rode it for nearly 2 years and when I sold it ... I got almost what I paid for it. I priced it for quick sale, sold it in 24 hours, and maybe lost $1500. ...It was cheap to maintain, no valve adjustments, had a belt drive and got 50 mpg. Basically I changed the oil and tires.

You've lost waaaay more money on that "bargain" FJR than I ever did on The Glide. If a cheap to own, cheap to maintain, comfortable touring bike is important to you, you'd look good on a new Road King. You'd probably get more girls too!"

 

[gregarious]

<snip>...I bet some of those bikes are running well over $3.00 per mile to own. Pretty expensive just to say you are a HOG....I can't/won't spend money on a bike that costs me $2.00+ a mile to own and is not ridden enough to even get any enjoyment out of.

I just calculated my ownership costs of my 2004 FJR that I sold recently based on the same factors as the above ad. My cost per mile was $.06/mile. ( total invested - selling price / mileage). We are talking about owning a bike of equal or greater quality/comfort/performance/looks for only 6% of the cost?

...I am an accountant, ...that kinda financial decision making just don't make sense or do it for me.

This from someone I know who's a hard-core H-D fan:

"My Road Glide was one of the cheapest bikes I ever owned. ...I rode it for nearly 2 years and when I sold it ... I got almost what I paid for it. I priced it for quick sale, sold it in 24 hours, and maybe lost $1500. ...It was cheap to maintain, no valve adjustments, had a belt drive and got 50 mpg. Basically I changed the oil and tires.

You've lost waaaay more money on that "bargain" FJR than I ever did on The Glide. If a cheap to own, cheap to maintain, comfortable touring bike is important to you, you'd look good on a new Road King. You'd probably get more girls too!"

He got almost what he paid for it- but did he include the 5,000 in accessories that almost all HD riders add? My friend sold Harleys for a while, and he said people would trade in bikes, and be happy with 80% of their bikes cost when new, not considering the cost for all the pipes, chrome,etc. Ask your HD friend if he added all the farkles in the cost? Just wondering, not a Harley basher- have several friends with HD products.

 

[odot]

After the farkle question....ask how much was paid in parts per week for the constant breaking down of said harley. I'd average 100 bucks every time I had a prob with the scoot. Not including the time I spent tearing **** down to replace a part.

 

[SockMonkey]

Here's this morning's follow-up on my original post: Harley-Davidson to Slash 1,100 Jobs

BMW is really the only manufacturer seeing any growth at the moment. (BMW Retail Sales Up in 2008) Everyone else is sucking fumes. (New Unit Retail Sales Plunge 36% in Q4) And, unfortunately, good dealers are dropping like flies...

 

[Geezer]

I don't blame any company for asking for free money. In fact, I would consider management incompetent if they had a chance and didn't try for it. Whether or not they should get it is an entirely different issue.