Harley's Plight

[Ed Sidders]

I've had 2 hardly's both amf era.First one was so crappy I didn't think another could be worse and shur nuff it was....I went in to their dealership a few years ago on my John Player Norton with the intentions of buying a new v rod...Salesman managed to really piss me off so I took my money elsewhere..A few years ago daughters husband bought a loaded out hardly from their private police druggie auction....I knew there was another reason that I can't stand that SOB..

 

[dcarver]

Wow, I drop a anti-metric bike bomb and not one feller yells back?

Geesh...

Happiness is riding your loud piped Harley to an FJR meet then brapping the throttle incessantly. Make sure the stacks are pointed towards the power rangers.

Yes, a new engine from HD is desperately needed. Suspension too. Brakes too. RIP Buell.

 

[mk2wilson]

Man, I thought Harley guys were known for bashing other brands! You guys are ruthless! I've had 7 Harley's since 03 and I can honestly say I never had a one of them leave me on the side of the road. That includes the 78 ironhead that was a hard tail. Now I don't own one now, but i probably will again someday. I truely think overall the fjr is a better bike, that's why I own one, but Harley has some of the best fit and finish of any of the major companies.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

dcarver, you got away with it because you are such a nice guy! Nobody wants to be mean to you!

The Harley you have pictured there is actually the one I would want to buy. I have wanted one since I was a child in the 70s. When Dad was shopping for his first bike about 1980ish, two of his friends came to our house on their bikes for Dad to look over and ponder. One was a Honda CB900 custom and the other was a black and gold 75th Anniversary Electra Glide. This was a 1200 cc AMF bike and at the time was one of the best looking things on the road. Each of those guys took me for short spin around the block and I was hooked. I remember the mirrors on the Harley were a useless silver blur and that my feet were numb from the vibration before I was out the driveway. I wanted a new Harley anyway.

 

[garyahouse]

Several years ago, it appeared that MAYBE Harley was starting to get it together. It seemed like they had the potential of really increasing their market share.They stepped up to the plate, and launched what looked like a new game plan. But, lIke the Titanic, they began turning the rudder, but alas, it was too late. The Titanic's rudder was no match for the size of the ship. The same anomaly that made Harley popular (the image they created) became their dictator: the combined voices of the loyalists rejected change of any sort. And oddly enough, even in the face of the recession and the cry all across the country to buy American, still Harley couldn't/wouldn't float their new boat... or step beyond their V-Twin.

How could they? Sales dictated that the experiment was not successful. Like it or not, It seems as though the loyalists just won't tolerate anything that's not air cooled and V twin. But I would say that it seems that the Harley phenomenon prooves beyond the shadow of a doubt: image trumps performance for most road-going motorcyclists in America.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[mk2wilson]

By the way, I don't think Harley is going anywhere. They will survive.

 

[Patriot]

short post from me:

Goldwing, VTX, Shadow

ok, a few more remarks:

my understanding that the greatest amount of profit company wide was from financing...anybody could buy a Harley (at list price) if they would sign a 19% collateral loan. Well, my local dealership has from 50-150 repo bikes day in and day out. They are trying to sell the used repos at above book and guess what...no or unaffordable financing on the used repos and they just sit.

So, I have no idea how their biggest share of profit is being replaced. It isn't

 

[bgross]

"God rides a Harley."

I won't bore y'all by reciting all of the similarities between European history, American history, The Church, and Harley history.

Political power, tradition, social cohesiveness, suppression of alternatives, unquestioning loyalty....

I have many friends who ride HD. As long as the conversation isn't a "point & laugh" fest, most will admit that their brand is what it is: a pig with lipstick and a g-string - but they love that pig! They buy it shiny clothes, spend hours & hours washing & shining it and embrace the camaraderie of their fellow pig farmers.

It's a large, far-flung family and they can find "cousins" anywhere they go. They embrace the same mythology, admire the same "in your face" icons, and accept friends with high BMI, BAC, and hearing loss as though those were virtues to be cultivated. They'll deny that their animal-skin & denim wardrobe can be improved upon in terms of function - just as they deny that an air-cooled, push-rod engine is the evolutionary equivalent of a biplane.

And they believe that anyone who disagrees is either stupid, a girlie-man, or a both.

Who can argue with that?

Do my HD friend enjoy their rides? I haven't met one yet who said that they didn't.

Just because that bike and it's props are not for me, doesn't mean that my priorities & choices are better. Just different, like me.

Now, back to reality.

 

[SacramentoMike]

Referring to that last post--I read something written by Ralph "Sonny" Barger, one of the founders (I think) of the Hell's Angels, or at least one of their best known leaders. Not an admirable guy by much of any standard, at least in my opinion, but somebody who knows motorcycles and knows who he and his bunch are pretty clearly.

Unfortunately, I don't remember where this came from and I can't provide a link, but what struck me was that he said he felt the earliest founders and members settled on Harley Davidson as their bike of choice. He conceded that the imports--in particular the Japanese sport class--were faster and better handling, more reliable and probably superior for what they wanted to do. But they didn't start with them, and with the "image" so ingrained, they were pretty much stuck with them. I thought it was pretty surprising to hear this admission from him about the despised "Jap" bikes they love to hate. Not that they were a better product, just hearing him acknowledge it.

Edited: I got curious so I googled "Sonny Barger on Japanese Motorcycles " and got a lot of hits. They refer back to quotes from his autobiography "Hell's Angel." A quote:

"It's always been important for Hell's Angels to ride American-made machines. In terms of pure workmanship, personally I don't like Harleys. I ride them because I'm in the club, and that's the image, but if I could I would seriously consider riding a Honda ST 1100 or a BMW. We really missed the boat not switching over to the Japanese models when they began building bigger bikes. I'll usually say, "F*** Harley-Davidson. You can buy an ST 1100 and the motherf***** will do 110 miles per hour right from the factory all day long ... While it's probably too late to switch over now, it would have been a nice move because Japanese bikes today are so much cheaper and better built. However, Japanese motorcycles don't have as much personality."

I guess the fact that he published it in 2000 explains the glaring omission of FJRs. Personally, I'm SO glad the Hell's Angels don't ride FJRs.

 

[lonerider]

Referring to that last post--I read something written by Ralph "Sonny" Barger, one of the founders (I think) of the Hell's Angels, or at least one of their best known leaders. Not an admirable guy by much of any standard, at least in my opinion, but somebody who knows motorcycles and knows who he and his bunch are pretty clearly.
Unfortunately, I don't remember where this came from and I can't provide a link, but what struck me was that he said he felt the earliest founders and members settled on Harley Davidson as their bike of choice. He conceded that the imports--in particular the Japanese sport class--were faster and better handling, more reliable and probably superior for what they wanted to do. But they didn't start with them, and with the "image" so ingrained, they were pretty much stuck with them. I thought it was pretty surprising to hear this admission from him about the despised "Jap" bikes they love to hate. Not that they were a better product, just hearing him acknowledge it.

Edited: I got curious so I googled "Sonny Barger on Japanese Motorcycles " and got a lot of hits. They refer back to quotes from his autobiography "Hell's Angel." A quote:

"It's always been important for Hell's Angels to ride American-made machines. In terms of pure workmanship, personally I don't like Harleys. I ride them because I'm in the club, and that's the image, but if I could I would seriously consider riding a Honda ST 1100 or a BMW. We really missed the boat not switching over to the Japanese models when they began building bigger bikes. I'll usually say, "F*** Harley-Davidson. You can buy an ST 1100 and the motherf***** will do 110 miles per hour right from the factory all day long ... While it's probably too late to switch over now, it would have been a nice move because Japanese bikes today are so much cheaper and better built. However, Japanese motorcycles don't have as much personality."

I guess the fact that he published it in 2000 explains the glaring omission of FJRs. Personally, I'm SO glad the Hell's Angels don't ride FJRs.

I remember reading that and thinking, "this guy's a real rider, not a poser". Also not afraid to say what he thinks, no matter who likes it or doesn't.