Head shake

[FJR Bill]

My 09 has not had head shake untill I recently had new PR2's installed. Previous PR2's were fine so I don't suspect the tires but think maybe the dealership did something wrong on the installation. It's speed related and occurs around 40 MPH. Higher speeds she's steady. Any recommendations or ideas of what might have been done wrong during the tire change?

Thanks, Bill

 

[MrZappo]

Sure, not balanced correctly across a wide range of speeds ? Or not balanced at all ? Or put in on the wrong direction ?

 

[user 31223]

yep exactly my experience with the PR2's i had fitted - not balanced - fine after the dealer re-balanced

 

[Fred W]

Also possible that you got a PR2 that had been stored improperly. PR2's are mostly new old stock now.

The fact that the tire is new doesn't exclude it from being a possible cause, it actually makes it the most likely thing based on the MRFWU principle: When looking for a new problem, always suspect the Most Recently F#$%ed With Unit.

 

[RadioHowie]

+1 WHAT THE HEATHEN ABOVE WROTE.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Since it is speed related and seems fine above and below 40 mph and because the PR2 is generally a high quality tire, I am thinking it is a balancing problem.

I completely agree with Fred and Howie, the tire was the most recently changed item. It almost has to be something related to that change. I am going with balancing.

Good luck, and please let us know what you find.

 

[garyahouse]

Bill,

I'm going to disagree with everybody. I'd be willing to bet that if it's indeed not your steering head bearings (only you can make that judgement), that if you replaced the tire with another just like it, you'd fix the problem.

I had this same issue with a PR3. I reported it on this forum. We went round and round with the same suggestions: pressure, bearing condition/torque, re-balancing, etc. Keep in mind what you you're experiencing is relatively rare. Here's the deal: My old PR2 was fine. The day the dealership put the PR3 on the front, the handlebar shaking started. I noticed it on the way home. At about 40 and up to near 50, the handlebars would shake back and forth if I loosened my grip on them, especially when decelerating. I took it back at about 500 miles. They pulled the tire, rebalanced it, and I put it back on. Maybe a little better, but same problem. I had the problem until I replaced the tire with a PR2 at something like 15k miles. But the day I put the new PR2 on, head shake was completely gone.

I already greased and re-torqued the steering head bearings last year. We did this very carefully, taking care to torque everything properly. That was long before we installed the head shaking PR3. So - this was NOT the issue. I'm going to step out on a limb here, based on some input I picked up along the way. I talked to a LOT of people about that tire. The consensus: some tires are just plain BAD right from the factory. One fella told me that tire manufacturers won't admit this, but they do have a percentage of tires that even when properly balanced, are still out of round, or at least out of whack somehow.

I came away having learned that even careful balancing won't cure what ails a small percentage of tires. I was thinking that I wanted to avoid PR3's in the future because of this experience. But feedback on this forum leads me to think that there's no problem with the PR3's in general. It was just MY PARTICULAR PR3. It's not that PR3's are crummy, or your choice of a PR2. These are not bad tires. But I do believe, like that one fella told me, that occasionally a bad tire is produced, and on my FJR, it caused handlebar shaking. And no amount of balancing would cure that.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Just Krusen]

Bill,I'm going to disagree with everybody. I'd be willing to bet that if it's indeed not your steering head bearings (only you can make that judgement), that if you replaced the tire with another just like it, you'd fix the problem.

Yes, sometimes you just get a bad tire. I have had the same issue on several different bikes. Each time it happened I just rode it until the tire was ready for replacement. The wobble would usually go away with the next set of tires. But I did have one set that actually made the wobble worse, and another that was slightly better but still had it. The 30 to 45 mph wobble is a very common complaint on message boards for almost all brands of bikes. I have had this issue on Goldwings, RT, Concours and others. So far my FJR has been wobble free but I'm sure it will show up one day with a fresh set of tires.

 

[RadioHowie]

Bill,I'm going to disagree with everybody. I'd be willing to bet that if it's indeed not your steering head bearings (only you can make that judgement), that if you replaced the tire with another just like it, you'd fix the problem.

Gary

darksider #44

Erm, Gary...I believe you just agreed with everybody... (except RFH. But WTF does a Cajun know!)

And YOU teach reading?!?!?!

 

[garyahouse]

Howie:

This is the final week of the year. The kids have had it. I've had it. I just need to survive one more week. Besides, I don't do the reading. I make the kids do that. I get paid to criticize the WAY they do it.

 

[wnyfjr]

I've had PR2's on my FJR right from the time I bought it used in 09. New or old tires, if I loosen my grip on the bars at right around 40, I get the wobble too. Worse when the tires are worn, but even with a new set of PR2's installed last Wednesday, I noticed the wobble this weekend. Only happens if I loosen grip on both bars at the same time. My solution? Don't loosen my grip on the bars. All good. I'm not talking death-grip here either, just normal pressure.

 

[Old Guy]

May I agree with everyone too? I'd take it back to the dealer and ask them to rebalance it. And while the wheel's off the bike, check the steering head bearings.

Hey Fred?

How does one improperly store a tire? I have been known to buy them a few months ahead of time when I find a bargain and just set them in a corner 'til needed. So far, so good, but should I be doing something differently?

 

[Fred W]

Hey Fred?How does one improperly store a tire? I have been known to buy them a few months ahead of time when I find a bargain and just set them in a corner 'til needed. So far, so good, but should I be doing something differently?

edit - let me preface this by saying: It depends on how long you intend to store it. If it is stored for a couple of years it makes a much bigger difference than a couple of weeks or months.

Store MC tires laying on their sides on a flat surface, preferrably in an air and water tight opaque bag, or in a dark, dry and cool location, but at the very least least no direct sunlight UV or ozone exposure.

If you store tires standing up, like in a tire rack, especially if any weight is set on top of the un-inflated tires, you may develop flat spots. Just standing by itself in the corner somewhere is fine.

Also you do not want stack the tires too high, even on their sides, as the weight of the stack will cause the bottom ones' sidewalls to compress and the tire will take a set that makes it hard to seat the beads when installed. It won't destroy the tire, but it makes it a PITA to get it inflated.

 

[gumba]

I'm not buying any of the bs above. steering neck bearings - bad tire - balance - my ***. It's all in front end alignment in my opinion. I have a 09 that put my *** through a $ 3000 ringer before I got off my ***, paid attention to the shop manual, and got some results. Start with parallel fork tubes and then pay attention to fork slider grab on the axle. I think the Gen2 are a little more prone to the headshake, but fixable. My 013 has no wobble with totally ****** tires times 2. My Gen1 didn't either.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, well... having the forks misaligned can surely cause the steering to pull one way or the other, but you'll have to explain to all the rest of us dummies the physics that would cause oscillation (aka Head Shake) from a fork misalignment.

 

[gumba]

Don't know the physics - don't care. Give it some thought - try it. You'll like it. I don't have the dreaded 45 mph head shake any more, even on my 09.

 

[gumba]

And I should add; this headshake thing didn't completely come together for me until a MCN advised torquing the lower triple tree pinch bolts first. Can't get any more parallel. I have an 09 and 013, both with about 7k on the front tires. Both tires look totally ******. They don't feel good, but no head shake. So much of this suspension thing is a black art. If I had the physics thing down, I'd be working for NASCAR at my price.

 

[Old Guy]

Hey Fred?How does one improperly store a tire? I have been known to buy them a few months ahead of time when I find a bargain and just set them in a corner 'til needed. So far, so good, but should I be doing something differently?

edit - let me preface this by saying: It depends on how long you intend to store it. If it is stored for a couple of years it makes a much bigger difference than a couple of weeks or months.

Store MC tires laying on their sides on a flat surface, preferrably in an air and water tight opaque bag, or in a dark, dry and cool location, but at the very least least no direct sunlight UV or ozone exposure.

If you store tires standing up, like in a tire rack, especially if any weight is set on top of the un-inflated tires, you may develop flat spots. Just standing by itself in the corner somewhere is fine.

Also you do not want stack the tires too high, even on their sides, as the weight of the stack will cause the bottom ones' sidewalls to compress and the tire will take a set that makes it hard to seat the beads when installed. It won't destroy the tire, but it makes it a PITA to get it inflated.

Makes perfect sense. I don't do it often, but occasionally I'll get a deal and buy a set on sale that I know I won't use for a few months.

Thank you, Sir.

 

[garyahouse]

I'm not buying any of the bs above. steering neck bearings - bad tire - balance - my ***. It's all in front end alignment in my opinion.

Hmmm... feeling a little abrasive today? I cannot speak for the OP here, but I believe you are wrong in my case. Explain to me how it is possible that my handlebar shaking took place from the first moment I mounted that PR3, and disappeared completely the day I took it off. There were no other changes made to the bike. The second time the same tire was balanced, I watched the tech do it. It appeared to be just about perfect to me. He took extra care to do so. It still shook the handlebars back and forth like a jackhammer.

I can understand how front end alignment could cause head shake. But it makes no sense that alignment would cause head shake with one tire but not another... especially with no other changes made to the forks.

Gary

darksider #44