wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Looks like Suomy makes a pretty tough lid:
Helmets
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Duster19
Well-known member
I have a HJC flip (Sym II) and I'll add a couple of things that I have noticed.
1. I had to order seperate check pads to get the proper fit I was looking for. I agree that a helmet should be fitted properly to work. I coach football and my players always complain that their helmet is too tight. I tell them if I don't see your eyebrows moving when I lift the helmet it's not tight enough.
2. I have notice that my D-rings from time to time DO not allow me to snuggle tighten the chin strap. Since, reading about Dennis I have made it a point NOT to accept the it's kind of tight. It's kind of hard to explain. It's like the strap gets twisted. It's snug, but doesn't allow you to really get it snug.
Just my two thoughts,
Dave
PS. I love the flip up concept, but might be looking for a once piece on my next purchase
1. I had to order seperate check pads to get the proper fit I was looking for. I agree that a helmet should be fitted properly to work. I coach football and my players always complain that their helmet is too tight. I tell them if I don't see your eyebrows moving when I lift the helmet it's not tight enough.
2. I have notice that my D-rings from time to time DO not allow me to snuggle tighten the chin strap. Since, reading about Dennis I have made it a point NOT to accept the it's kind of tight. It's kind of hard to explain. It's like the strap gets twisted. It's snug, but doesn't allow you to really get it snug.
Just my two thoughts,
Dave
PS. I love the flip up concept, but might be looking for a once piece on my next purchase
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MCRIDER007
Well-known member
I think when you talk about the safety of a flip up helmet, you need to go back to what Harry Hurt said a number of years ago,
"the cheapest full face DOT approved helmet available is much safer than the most expensive, Snell Approved, open face helmet that you can buy".
I have always thought that the difference in safety between a full face and a open face is the chin guard and there isn't any way that a flip up helmet is going to have as strong of chin guard as the one piece chin guard you get with a full face. Granted, as the flip designs improve so will their safey but they will always be a bit behind their full face counterparts.
With all that being said, I just bought a Scorpion EVO 900 helmet to go with my EVO 700 (Snell Approved) and EVO 400, which actually scored higher than the 700 in Motorcyclist's helmet tests. The 900 has a very robust chin design and appears to have a very good locking mechanism, its hard to believe that the flip would open or that the helmet could come off my head in an accident. Its about 6 ounces heavier than the 700 and most of the extra weight seems to be in the front, when not riding it seems to be "front heavy". Its also noticeably wider than the 700 and seems to have as much, if not more, padding than the 700.
The 700 is a more comfortable helmet (it has also been broken in to my head), but the 900 has some nice features, such as the inner drop down sun screen. I am thinking that the 900 is probably a better hot weather helmet but I am wondering if the extra weight is going to be fatiguing on a long day.
"the cheapest full face DOT approved helmet available is much safer than the most expensive, Snell Approved, open face helmet that you can buy".
I have always thought that the difference in safety between a full face and a open face is the chin guard and there isn't any way that a flip up helmet is going to have as strong of chin guard as the one piece chin guard you get with a full face. Granted, as the flip designs improve so will their safey but they will always be a bit behind their full face counterparts.
With all that being said, I just bought a Scorpion EVO 900 helmet to go with my EVO 700 (Snell Approved) and EVO 400, which actually scored higher than the 700 in Motorcyclist's helmet tests. The 900 has a very robust chin design and appears to have a very good locking mechanism, its hard to believe that the flip would open or that the helmet could come off my head in an accident. Its about 6 ounces heavier than the 700 and most of the extra weight seems to be in the front, when not riding it seems to be "front heavy". Its also noticeably wider than the 700 and seems to have as much, if not more, padding than the 700.
The 700 is a more comfortable helmet (it has also been broken in to my head), but the 900 has some nice features, such as the inner drop down sun screen. I am thinking that the 900 is probably a better hot weather helmet but I am wondering if the extra weight is going to be fatiguing on a long day.
moldman
Active member
I too have been reading everything about helmet safety due in part to this forum and all the accident reports. I have a Nolan N102 flip up and a Nolan open face helmet (the wife's that after all the reading will be replacing) and my helmet is around 4 years old. I was looking at the Nolan N103 because of the internal sun shield and now I'm wondering if that shield is down and the front of the helmet is hit will that shield run into the face? Maybe that sun shield is not such a good idea.
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RaYzerman19
Go Wings!
I have an EXO 900 now, to replace an HJC SymaxII and Nolan 102. It should be noted the EXO 900 is ECE & DOT approved.
Weight is not a factor, but balance is. I have been on long day trips (not hot), and head fatigue was no worse than any other. Balance is good. The 900 seems quite robust, and it custom fits the cheek pads and lower neck band by using the inflatable feature. More chin room. Great helmet in my book.... of course, none of us want to test the hinge mechanisms....... but the latch is very good, and way more secure than HJC's. Nolan's is metal and may be better with it's two button design. Just my 2 cents.
FJR-RemingtonRider
Their Sunset / My Sunrise
After reading that article, I tried to search for that z1r-zp-1 helmet that was used in the test. Wanted to get a feel for what it was about.
Could not find it anywhere. e-mailed z1r website for some updated info.
Curious if they z1r, updated the model or just discontinued it?
Still helmet searching.
Could not find it anywhere. e-mailed z1r website for some updated info.
Curious if they z1r, updated the model or just discontinued it?
Still helmet searching.
I have two problems... the world's largest head, and I wear prescription glasses. I don't wear hats often, but I think a fitted baseball cap for me needs to be an 8 1/4 or so, maybe an 8. I have lost 45 pounds over the past year but it hasn't made my head any smaller.
I can get my head in an XXL full face helmet (some of them, Icon won't clear my temples) but only the Shoei RF1000 allows me to get my glasses on. Even then, it's very tight and I'm positive I'd break the glasses sooner rather than later. I tried on a 3XL RF1000 that seems to fit properly.
I wear a Shoei J-Wing 100% of the time right now. It's comfortable, I can get my glasses and sunglasses on with room to spare (not much but enough), and it beats wearing a DOT half helmet. I'm waiting for the new Shoei RF-1100 to hit the market and see how it fits me.
I can get my head in an XXL full face helmet (some of them, Icon won't clear my temples) but only the Shoei RF1000 allows me to get my glasses on. Even then, it's very tight and I'm positive I'd break the glasses sooner rather than later. I tried on a 3XL RF1000 that seems to fit properly.
I wear a Shoei J-Wing 100% of the time right now. It's comfortable, I can get my glasses and sunglasses on with room to spare (not much but enough), and it beats wearing a DOT half helmet. I'm waiting for the new Shoei RF-1100 to hit the market and see how it fits me.
MotorToad
Well-known member
I think the jury's still out on this one...
Some anecdotal evidence regarding the initial issue (HJC lids), a riding buddy in BHam was a precinct chief and mentioned that a long string of fatalities he'd worked or seen involved HJC helmets which weren't on the rider anymore. (One of these, though, wasn't in his precinct so he didn't know at the time if the guy had it clasped, it's not uncommon to see inner-city thugs riding with their lids on top of their heads.) How much this anecdotal string is due to the sheer number of HJCs on the road or is just coincidence is impossible to say. I've never been the biggest fan of HJC but I would consider one of their higher line lids, but I wouldn't recommend their cheaper plastic ones. (Which I think is what wfooshee has, which I told him not to buy.)
Checkswrecks
Well-known member
I really have to go back to two of the original points, sort of adding one:
1) Was he truly fitted?
1A) An unmentioned and very related point was whether the helmet STILL fit like new? Ive got two RF-1000s that were both snug when new and the older one is definitely looser than the newer one!
2) Was the strap really and truly snug? It is totally normal to see shoes and even zipped boots come off at accident sites. There is an incredible amount of stretch that exists in both people and what we're wearing.
As for the Snell hard/soft debate that rages, think about it from an engineering standpoint. We ungeneerds have to design to a desired outcome. We want to decelerate the brain at a certain max rateand have to start from an estimated initial velocity. The typical initial design velocities have been something that resembles faster highway or race speeds. That means that you want to use harder helmet materials to absorb the peakier (engineer-speak) amplitude of the G-pulse. Clearly, this is better for the racers. The problem is that we typically aren't racing in the real world, as we street riders generally get off at 35-ish mph. We want softer liners and I'm really glad that the new Snell standards reflect that better. Of course, our helmets give us less protection now if we hit a stationary object from a highway get-off.
Is the new Snell standard right for what our helmet threats are, initial velocities, and other key questions? This is supposed to be one of the key questions for the new NHTSA/AMA/Industry accident study, unofficially known as Hurt Report II. My concern is that the report won't have enough raw data, as the funding is already far short of what the study needs, and the results will be THE reference for years to come.
Modular vs full-face? Either beats open face or none, which is what most of the world uses. For most us us, the choice probably doesn't make much difference.
My own 2 cents.
Checks
1) Was he truly fitted?
1A) An unmentioned and very related point was whether the helmet STILL fit like new? Ive got two RF-1000s that were both snug when new and the older one is definitely looser than the newer one!
2) Was the strap really and truly snug? It is totally normal to see shoes and even zipped boots come off at accident sites. There is an incredible amount of stretch that exists in both people and what we're wearing.
As for the Snell hard/soft debate that rages, think about it from an engineering standpoint. We ungeneerds have to design to a desired outcome. We want to decelerate the brain at a certain max rateand have to start from an estimated initial velocity. The typical initial design velocities have been something that resembles faster highway or race speeds. That means that you want to use harder helmet materials to absorb the peakier (engineer-speak) amplitude of the G-pulse. Clearly, this is better for the racers. The problem is that we typically aren't racing in the real world, as we street riders generally get off at 35-ish mph. We want softer liners and I'm really glad that the new Snell standards reflect that better. Of course, our helmets give us less protection now if we hit a stationary object from a highway get-off.
Is the new Snell standard right for what our helmet threats are, initial velocities, and other key questions? This is supposed to be one of the key questions for the new NHTSA/AMA/Industry accident study, unofficially known as Hurt Report II. My concern is that the report won't have enough raw data, as the funding is already far short of what the study needs, and the results will be THE reference for years to come.
Modular vs full-face? Either beats open face or none, which is what most of the world uses. For most us us, the choice probably doesn't make much difference.
My own 2 cents.
Checks
DieselBadger
New member
Look any helmet is better than no helmet. I am sure we can all agree on this. I just bought a HJC Cymax-II. Have not ridden with it yet. After reading all of this got me thinking maybe it wasn't a good purchase. However there are a lot of variables that go in too motorcycle crashes. I was involved in a crash in which a van pulled out in-front of me. Trying to avoid him I swerved and ended up clipping his rear bumper. Bent in 90 degrees back. bike stopped upon impact. I went flying into the street. This all happened at about 30 miles an hour. I walked a way with not much more then a bruised knee and a sprained wrist. I was wearing an open faced helmet. The helmet had a scratch on the back. otherwise unharmed. I do not wear it anymore but keep it around. Anyway, I guess it makes a difference of knowing how to crash. Landing in the street and hitting the pavement was much better than taking his van broadside. Sometimes you need to use what is in the helmet and not just rely on the helmet.
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