Hi, my bike won't start.

[chrisz]

I always keep it overnight on a trickle charger (battery tender) but today I wanted to go to ride but no go.  I believe the battery is at least 4 years old (its how long I had the bike) but it could be original, just don't know if it has ever been replaced.  Besides a no start, what other symptoms are there with a dead battery?  I re-attached the battery tender, but it glows red meaning it won't charge the battery.  I tried another battery tender but it shows 25% battery strength after about an hour.  I've ordered another battery which will be ready on Monday.

Initially my no start was: I would put the key into the ON position but the gauges would not move (display was blank other than a flashing red key symbol) then hit the start button, and nothing.  After keeping the other trickle charger on for about an hour and getting 25% battery life the gauges would move and when hit start engine button I heard a fast clicking sound but no start.  Hence my thought is that the battery is dead and not accepting a charge.

 

[road runner]

sounds like a bad battery. What is the voltage of the battery? Make sure the lead and fuse between the tender and battery are good. In other words, make sure the charger is actually getting to battery. Also the tender puts out high charge for a little while then goes to trickle charge. So if you unplug and replug it it will go back to high charge again for a while. If your battery was dead you may have to cycle the charger a couple times to bring it back. 

 

[RossKean]

I agree with road runner in that it seems most likely to be the battery.  You really should check the voltage and even if it is apparently OK, check it when you hit the starter button.  (Resting voltage may be OK but could drop way low when trying to draw some current.)

For what its worth, I have the OEM battery in my 2011 with 133,000 km (bought it used at 58,000 km a few years ago).  I got something like 250,000 km and 11 years out of the OEM battery on my '07.  I have never used a battery tender - battery gets a "top-off" charge twice over the winter layoff.  The FJR has a very low parasitic draw (key off) and a modern AGM battery in good condition has a very low self-discharge rate - shouldn't be more than a few per cent per month.  Self-discharge rate may increase as a battery ages and reserve capacity tends to drop off - that's why I replaced the battery in the '07 and why I'll probably have to replace the one in the '11 next season.

Are you using a "battery tender" or a "trickle charger"?  You used both terms in your original post.  A battery tender "knows" when to stop but a trickle charger is dumb and will continue to charge (overcharge) the battery and eventually kill it.  Same can happen if a battery tender goes bad.  Note:  Some battery tenders are "temperature compensated" and will adjust voltage output (float voltage) based upon ambient temperature.  This is preferred to prevent under charging or over charging.

 

[Bounce]

I find that the SW summers in the US can kill a battery pretty quickly compared to other places I've lived. After the 2nd time of getting stranded on a Wing with a battery I tried to keep longer than was wise, I started swapping at 2.5 years. Better to swap early than to get stranded and held hostage to local dealer gouging... just like tires.

 

[infrared]

Chrisz,

Dirty or corroded battery terminals will act exactly like a dead or dying battery.  You want them to be clean and shiny-bright.  Dull metal is corroded.  Also, each battery cable has two ends.  Both ends of a cable can get corroded. 

Most auto-parts stores can load-test your battery, so no guesswork needed.  Last I looked, Amazon had the OEM battery at a fair price.

 

[chrisz]

Thanks guys,

I'll pick up a new battery today.  However I took another crack at the old battery, it registered around 10V.  I put it on another battery charger and charged it to 12.97V at which time the charger stopped further charging.  I then load tested it myself (1/2 CCA for 15 seconds) and it passed, didn't drop from full charge.  Makes me think the battery may be fine.  Will still pick up the new battery, but will have to check for corrosion on battery terminals and cables.

But this dead battery (no start) happened after I did something new, typically when I would shut down the bike for the day, I would just leave the ignition in the key "Off" position, however during the past few days I have been leaving the ignition in the key "locked" position.  I don't see  how there would be more of a parasitic current draw in the "locked" position than in the "Off" position...

 

[RossKean]

I find that the SW summers in the US can kill a battery pretty quickly compared to other places I've lived.

High ambient temperatures will reduce battery life for sure.  They "prefer" cool.

I don't see  how there would be more of a parasitic current draw in the "locked" position than in the "Off" position...

I agree.  I don't think that could be the issue.  Not sure I have ever used the "lock" position but I have been known to kill the engine with the sidestand switch (or the kill switch) in my garage and walk away from the bike with the key still in the "on" position.  (Happened twice and thankfully the battery survived the deep discharge.)

 

[mcatrophy]

...

But this dead battery (no start) happened after I did something new, typically when I would shut down the bike for the day, I would just leave the ignition in the key "Off" position, however during the past few days I have been leaving the ignition in the key "locked" position.  I don't see  how there would be more of a parasitic current draw in the "locked" position than in the "Off" position...

Are you sure you didn't turn the key beyond the "Lock" position to the "P" position? On a Gen 2 this puts the parking lights on and allows the hazard lights to function, on my Gen 3 it allows the hazard lights to operate though the parking lights don't come on, but this may be market-specific. 

 

[chrisz]

mcatrophy, I reread the manual regarding the Park position, while I didn't specifically want to put the bike into the Park position I may have inadvertently done so.  If in Park, I didn't see any lights being on, but perhaps there is still some current draw somewhere?  The owner's manual states; "Do not use the Parking position for an extended time else the battery will discharge".

Regarding the old battery which I now believe is original, seems to be keeping the charge.  The terminals were heavily corroded which may be the root cause of No Start.  I will put in the new, freshly charged battery on the bench and keep the old battery as a spare?

BTW, the Battery Tender I was using (cheap 750mA) will not maintain a battery any more, red light keep showing, I think it died over the last few days.

 

[mcatrophy]

Found the exercise I went through to measure current draw under various conditions. One video shows the current when switched to the Park position, nearly 1.5 amps!

Click on the image to play. Switches to Park about 39 seconds in.



Full set of images from my trials here.

 

[chrisz]

Hmm, very interesting!  Makes me think that there may have been several contributing factors. 

1st: corroded battery terminals

2nd: possibly placed the ignition switch inadvertently into Park instead of Locked

3rd: battery tender died and didn't supply the juice needed to mitigate the above two issues

mcatrophy: what are the steps to determine the current draw, I'd like to see if/what it is on my bike once I install the new battery tomorrow.

Thanks,

 

[mcatrophy]

...

mcatrophy: what are the steps to determine the current draw, I'd like to see if/what it is on my bike once I install the new battery tomorrow.

I used a meter that has a 10 amp current range. Never run the starter motor with its current going through the meter, far too high, will blow your meter's fuse. You need a dc clamp meter if you want to measure that.

I managed to do the measurements without completely disconnecting the battery from the bike's electrics, though that doesn't really matter - you might lose clock and trip settings if it does disconnect, but nothing important.

Slacken the negative battery terminal, hold the cable against the terminal while you remove the screw. Using clips on your meter, connect one clip to the battery's negative terminal, connect the other either to the battery cable or to a suitable frame point (you can see where I connected mine). Now you can move the battery cable away from the battery terminal, and any current will flow through the meter.

Now you can play switching ignition and ancillaries.

If you do want to try anything with the engine running, or even headlight current with the engine stopped with the kill switch, with the meter connected as above push the battery cable against the battery terminal while you start the engine. I would suggest holding it there for a minute or so to let any initial high charging current die down, then move the lead away from the terminal, expect to see a charging current flowing through your meter.

If you want to see the headlamp draw with the engine stopped, stop the engine with the kill switch, but remember this will be quite a high current, about 4 amps for the ECU and parking lights plus maybe 10 amps for the headlights on your 2013 (or for anyone with a Gen 1  or 2). For anyone wanting to try this with the later Gen 3 with LED lights, this will be somewhat lower. 

The small print: I take no responsibility for anything untoward that may happen.

[Edited to correct my meter's current range]

 

[DiggerDr.]

One of the great things this forum offers. The willingness to help others. This procedure will work.

However, I would like to emphasize a few points. He wrote

 Using clips on your meter,

This could be critical. A slip while holding 2 probes and turning switches could be bad.. High open circuit voltage with the engine running could possibly damage electronics. Get a good battery that is charged and follow the steps exactly. If in doubt, stop and ask. Blowing a fuse in your meter would also create an open circuit. Let it idle down and let the charge current drop if you must check running.

 

[Bounce]

Are you sure you didn't turn the key beyond the "Lock" position to the "P" position? On a Gen 2 this puts the parking lights on and allows the hazard lights to function, on my Gen 3 it allows the hazard lights to operate though the parking lights don't come on, but this may be market-specific. 

THAT'S what I was digging around in my brain for yesterday morning. I was stuck on there being something in there that, if moved to the wrong point, could CAUSE a problem but I got stuck on it being some not-all-the-way-to-lock thing instead of moving past into "Park" which leaves the tail light on.

Thank you for stepping up and hitting it out of the Park (heh).

 

[mcatrophy]

THAT'S what I was digging around in my brain for yesterday morning.

I was going to reply with something about my memory, but I've forgotten what it was. 

 

[chrisz]

Thanks all, I'm back on the road

Cables have been cleaned, dielectric paste applied, new battery installed.  Current draw with the bike in Off position is nothing after about 5 seconds.  Didn't test current draw in the Locked or Park positions as I forgot   Hence will not be using the Locked or Park positions in the future.

Until the next time...