Holeshot headers with oxygen sensor??

[Wicked Webby]

Hello again,

First, I wanted to know if anyone has welded an inlet for the O2 sensor on their Holeshot headers or if you can get them made up that way. That is the main thing I like about the Muzzy full system(O2 sensor inlet).

With that in mind, I have noticed the O2 sensor (on my 07) is located on the bottom right side of the stock exhaust(in the main collector though). I am guessing that if you added one on the Holeshot headers that you would place it on the right side header(Cylinders 3-4)just after the 2 becomes 1. I thought this mainly because the #3 cylinder is the base line for TBS adjustments and based on where the stock system has it. Anyone have any ideas on this OR; Any MUZZY full system owners care to share where Muzzy placed it on their system?

Edit: Well, I think I just figured out one of my questions....(Check it out below)

I am planning on getting some slip-ons for my 07 and (later) mating them with the Holeshot headers. I was wondering if anyone has done this (welded a inlet for the O2 sensor and how does it run)?? I have heard that a good share of Muzzy full system owners have been happy with how the O2 sensor tunes itself without the use of a power commander.

Does anyone know how much tuning the O2 sensor really does on the Gen. II models?? My thinking is that I could still fine tune it some with the barbarian jumper mod and adjusting the CO values???

What do you think? Too simple to work very well?

Anyone?

Thanks for any input.

WW

 

[Shadow]

I doubt that the O2 sensor alone could handle such a big difference in breathing.

Standard header with a can change yes, but that would be too much.

A Power Commander with the oxygen sensor disconnected would be a better and safer choice.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Well, I wonder about that too. Muzzy claims that their full systems(with the oxygen sensor) doesn't need or require a power commander. So I am guessing that it wouldn't be a motor safety issue or they wouldn't make that type of product claim... But who knows for sure.

WW

 

[Geezer]

Well, I wonder about that too. Muzzy claims that their full systems(with the oxygen sensor) doesn't need or require a power commander. So I am guessing that it wouldn't be a motor safety issue or they wouldn't make that type of product claim... But who knows for sure.
WW

Well, I'm not entirely satisfied with Muzzy but I do have their header with O2 sensor instlled and a Uni air filter with no PCIII, I've put over 20k miles on the bikes with this setup and have no problems with it. My only complaint is the Muzzy is a loy louder than I like. I think the Holeshot header with stock cans would be ideal for me if the supported the O2 sensor.

Have you asked Dale Walker if they can provide a header with the bung installed for the sensor?

 

[BrunDog]

Stop f'ing around: Skip the O2 sensor, get a PCIII and make everything right with the world. The bike will run MUCH smoother and a little cooler.

I was skeptical and concerned about running without the sensor, but considering that it is running in closed loop only during mid-throttle consistent running, the base map is primarily used anyway. Got a PCIII last year, and would NEVER go back, and that was compared to the Barbarian mod.

-BD

 

[fossilrider]

Well, I wonder about that too. Muzzy claims that their full systems(with the oxygen sensor) doesn't need or require a power commander. So I am guessing that it wouldn't be a motor safety issue or they wouldn't make that type of product claim... But who knows for sure.
WW

Well, I'm not entirely satisfied with Muzzy but I do have their header with O2 sensor instlled and a Uni air filter with no PCIII, I've put over 20k miles on the bikes with this setup and have no problems with it. My only complaint is the Muzzy is a loy louder than I like. I think the Holeshot header with stock cans would be ideal for me if the supported the O2 sensor.

Have you asked Dale Walker if they can provide a header with the bung installed for the sensor?

I run the Muzzy with 4 into 1 system, +7 CO and the O2 sensor connected. Runs like a charm including the our last trip from Ontario across Canada, through the Rockies, down into Montana and back. No hesitation, no bottoming issues and averaged 43mpg riding 2 up. Excellent combination in my opinion.

john

 

[Wicked Webby]

Thanks for pitching in on my questions fellas.

Brundog, I do agree that the power commander is a great tool(although, I don't think you are closed looped anytime with that O2 sensor disconnected), BUT... Here is my previous Experience with my power commander(s):

On my (just one example) previous ZX12r (full Akropovic race system..Kawi Kleen air capped,pollution crap gone, Muzzy clutch system, ect ect ect) tuned with the power commander (very expensive tune job with custom map done and tweaked) and loved it MOST of the time. I will say that when it was real HOT and HUMID out (here in MN) the bike would sometimes sputter and spit(no power) at lower throttle positions. And NO it wasn't tuned poorly...Was tuned at a very very good race shop(they actually knew what they were doing). If it was less than 95 out it ran perfect...never back firing on decel or sputtering(at any throttle position) and more power than you could ever need..3rd gear throttle wheelies with some tugging on the bars. So what I am getting at is that the power commander is great BUT not perfect as it seems to take away from some of the self-tuning the bike can do itself. How much though, I am not sure.

That is why I was considering other options.. Fossilrider it sounds like you have your FJR setup great without the power commander. Geezer it sounds like yours runs good too. Have you considered the Barbarian mod (for some self tuning) or don't you think you need it. I will be finding out how much Dale would charge me for the inlet (vs me welding it in myself).

Thanks Guys

WW

 

[BrunDog]

WW: different bike, therefore different results. Take it from everybody that installed a PCIII on the FJR - it is one of the best mods you can make on this bike. And I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE SURGING TO START!!

Oh, yes, O2 sensor disconnected = open loop mode 100% of the time. That is what I meant.

-BD

 

[Wicked Webby]

Brundog,

Copy you on that BD.....Hey u almost got 1000 posts!!

WW

 

[Shadow]

So what I am getting at is that the power commander is great BUT not perfect as it seems to take away from some of the self-tuning the bike can do itself.

Yes, it won't be as flexible.

The standard mapping on any Jap bike is fairly flexible, so it will run under many variable conditions so it doesn't really run in a 100% state of tune.

Ducati and bikes like that are 100% tuned for a region, take them out of that region and they don't run in a perfect state of tune.

A power Commander is doing the same thing, dyno tune it on a hot and humid day then go for a ride the next week on a cold and wet day and it won't be at 100% tune and may behave like a Ducati.

I have known guys to travel from Sth Aust to Queensland, bottom of Aust to the top, cold to a hot and humid climate and didn't notice a thing.

Same guys 2 years later with Power Commanders fitted had the bikes run on a dyno in Qld to get them remapped when they got there, ran like woolly goats, had to do the same thing when they got back to Sth Aust.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Shadow,

Sounds about right to me. This was one of the reasons why I was looking at other options. But who knows what is the ideal choice.

I not not bad mouthing the Power commanders by any means.

WW

 

[BrunDog]

Yes, it won't be as flexible.
The standard mapping on any Jap bike is fairly flexible, so it will run under many variable conditions so it doesn't really run in a 100% state of tune.

Ducati and bikes like that are 100% tuned for a region, take them out of that region and they don't run in a perfect state of tune.

A power Commander is doing the same thing, dyno tune it on a hot and humid day then go for a ride the next week on a cold and wet day and it won't be at 100% tune and may behave like a Ducati.

I have known guys to travel from Sth Aust to Queensland, bottom of Aust to the top, cold to a hot and humid climate and didn't notice a thing.

Same guys 2 years later with Power Commanders fitted had the bikes run on a dyno in Qld to get them remapped when they got there, ran like woolly goats, had to do the same thing when they got back to Sth Aust.

You know, that doesn't really make any sense. The power commander does not dynamically change the ECU's mapping. It is a flat overlay (or bias). So whatever % of time the ECU decides an injector should be open, the PCIII opens it longer or shorter depending on the setting for that particular throttle position and engine speed. But if the ECU decides for whatever reason that the injector should be open longer or shorter, the PCIII's output just follows it.

So, the PCIII simply adds or takes away injector time on top of what the ECU determines first. Just like the barbarian mod - but the mod is fixed across the board, whereas the PCIII allows for individual "barbarian mods" per throttle position/engine speed.

-BD

 

[Wicked Webby]

Yes, it won't be as flexible.
The standard mapping on any Jap bike is fairly flexible, so it will run under many variable conditions so it doesn't really run in a 100% state of tune.

Ducati and bikes like that are 100% tuned for a region, take them out of that region and they don't run in a perfect state of tune.

A power Commander is doing the same thing, dyno tune it on a hot and humid day then go for a ride the next week on a cold and wet day and it won't be at 100% tune and may behave like a Ducati.

I have known guys to travel from Sth Aust to Queensland, bottom of Aust to the top, cold to a hot and humid climate and didn't notice a thing.

Same guys 2 years later with Power Commanders fitted had the bikes run on a dyno in Qld to get them remapped when they got there, ran like woolly goats, had to do the same thing when they got back to Sth Aust.

You know, that doesn't really make any sense. The power commander does not dynamically change the ECU's mapping. It is a flat overlay (or bias). So whatever % of time the ECU decides an injector should be open, the PCIII opens it longer or shorter depending on the setting for that particular throttle position and engine speed. But if the ECU decides for whatever reason that the injector should be open longer or shorter, the PCIII's output just follows it.

So, the PCIII simply adds or takes away injector time on top of what the ECU determines first. Just like the barbarian mod - but the mod is fixed across the board, whereas the PCIII allows for individual "barbarian mods" per throttle position/engine speed.

-BD

BD,

That sounds about right.

WW