Hot gas doesn't go quite as far
- Thread starter Constant Mesh
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I thought that article was a joke until I read "trial lawyers" and "class action" then it all made sense.....
Those people seem to think that the gasoline they are pumping is stored at the ambient temperature of the air. Since it is stored in the ground (in almost all cases) the air temp has little or nothing to do with the temp of the fuel being pumped. No doubt that it creeps above 60 F during the summer but not by much I bet. If there is any doubt then just feel the pump nozzle while gas is flowing and be surprised at how "cold" it is.
A real genius being quoted here: ""You can tell the difference between the time you fill up in the morning or night, or if you fill up in the middle of the day," said Rittenhouse, who joined one of the lawsuits. "All you have to do is look at the fumes." I suppose it is pointless to mention that the temperature of the fuel being pumped has little or nothing to do with the "fumes" being generated. Someone tell Mr. Rittenhouse that it is his problem that the tank/vehicle he is pumping the fuel into is hot causing the light ends to be driven off creating all those "fumes." In fact, if the gasoline were hotter initially there would actually be LESS "fumes" being generated as it is transfered to a hot fuel tank. Besides, "fumes" represent light ends in the fuel and are a measure of it's volitility which has nothing to do with how much fuel expands from cold to hot. Duh....
I also missed the part about where the class action lawsuits were taking into account all the gallons pumped that were well below the magic 60 F meaning that the customer was getting MORE than they were paying for.
I'll have to start taking my thermometer with me to the gas station and checking the temp of the gas being pumped.....turn this into a science project.....LOL.
edit....I apoligize in advance least this become a "political" or "off topic" post since I have been warned....... :derisive: :derisive:
Those people seem to think that the gasoline they are pumping is stored at the ambient temperature of the air. Since it is stored in the ground (in almost all cases) the air temp has little or nothing to do with the temp of the fuel being pumped. No doubt that it creeps above 60 F during the summer but not by much I bet. If there is any doubt then just feel the pump nozzle while gas is flowing and be surprised at how "cold" it is.
A real genius being quoted here: ""You can tell the difference between the time you fill up in the morning or night, or if you fill up in the middle of the day," said Rittenhouse, who joined one of the lawsuits. "All you have to do is look at the fumes." I suppose it is pointless to mention that the temperature of the fuel being pumped has little or nothing to do with the "fumes" being generated. Someone tell Mr. Rittenhouse that it is his problem that the tank/vehicle he is pumping the fuel into is hot causing the light ends to be driven off creating all those "fumes." In fact, if the gasoline were hotter initially there would actually be LESS "fumes" being generated as it is transfered to a hot fuel tank. Besides, "fumes" represent light ends in the fuel and are a measure of it's volitility which has nothing to do with how much fuel expands from cold to hot. Duh....
I also missed the part about where the class action lawsuits were taking into account all the gallons pumped that were well below the magic 60 F meaning that the customer was getting MORE than they were paying for.
I'll have to start taking my thermometer with me to the gas station and checking the temp of the gas being pumped.....turn this into a science project.....LOL.
edit....I apoligize in advance least this become a "political" or "off topic" post since I have been warned....... :derisive: :derisive:
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Barabus
Well-known member
It's when I have hot and runny gas, then I do go far!!
pickax
Well-known member
Interesting read, those cubic inches add up over time.
Edit: Just read jestals reply, and he is correct about the visible fumes being B/S, (gas is volatile to 45 below).
But the underground temps here in the south are 72 degrees average.
Edit: Just read jestals reply, and he is correct about the visible fumes being B/S, (gas is volatile to 45 below).
But the underground temps here in the south are 72 degrees average.
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C&C
Well-known member
Just about all gasoline storage tanks are underground, and anything below about five feet is going to be mean year round temperature all year long, so a big 'PLUS ONE' to what jestal said. The only gasoline affected would be the less than one gallon that resides in the hoses that live above ground. That would render the differences negligible in my opinion.
Groo
The Endless Font of Useless Knowledge...
There goes Jestal... messing up a perfectly good scam with all those facts and ****.... 
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Yep. I guess that's why the price has dropped 30 cents/gal since the week before Memorial Day. They must be feeling for us poor Californians with our expanded gas.
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+1 to Jestal!
Iv'e learned the only time Gas expansion becomes a problem is while its in the vehicle. On hot summer days after filling a Cessna aircraft (or the like), fuel would heat up, expand, and poor out through the fuel vents. We could see as much as a gallon dripping out over the course of a day. However, this is when the aircraft is sitting outside in the 100+ degree sun!
I understand that when I buy, say one gallon, then I am getting 1 gallon at around 70F. Only when it sits in my gas tank and in the sun might I see fuel expansion and an increase in the 'amount' of fuel in the tank.
Heck, for the simple minded: buy a gallon of cold gas, heat it up and expand it to 1.5 gallons...what that make it, a 0.5 compression ratio
The above lawsuits make us Americans look stupid!
Iv'e learned the only time Gas expansion becomes a problem is while its in the vehicle. On hot summer days after filling a Cessna aircraft (or the like), fuel would heat up, expand, and poor out through the fuel vents. We could see as much as a gallon dripping out over the course of a day. However, this is when the aircraft is sitting outside in the 100+ degree sun!
I understand that when I buy, say one gallon, then I am getting 1 gallon at around 70F. Only when it sits in my gas tank and in the sun might I see fuel expansion and an increase in the 'amount' of fuel in the tank.
Heck, for the simple minded: buy a gallon of cold gas, heat it up and expand it to 1.5 gallons...what that make it, a 0.5 compression ratio
The above lawsuits make us Americans look stupid!
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
I think there may be something to this.
In Canada, where temperatures are a heck of a lot cooler obviously, the same gas companies that are bitching about the cost to upgrade gas pumps here actually supported upgrading to pumps that dispense a variable volume of gasoline based on temperature. Gee, I wonder why? Guess they didn't want those pesky consumers getting more than their fair share of gas when it was below 60 degrees.
Additionally, since the gas crisis of the 70s, Hawaii has mandated that a gallon of gasoline be measured using an 80 degree standard, so our island brothers actually get more "gas to the gallon."
I am no expert, but underground or not, I am willing to guess that the gasoline in the tanks in Arizona are a heck of a lot warmer than 60 degrees. Besides, where does the gas come from? Not from an underground, even temperature source..........but from a tanker truck that yesterday, was driving around in 107 degrees.
In Canada, where temperatures are a heck of a lot cooler obviously, the same gas companies that are bitching about the cost to upgrade gas pumps here actually supported upgrading to pumps that dispense a variable volume of gasoline based on temperature. Gee, I wonder why? Guess they didn't want those pesky consumers getting more than their fair share of gas when it was below 60 degrees.
Additionally, since the gas crisis of the 70s, Hawaii has mandated that a gallon of gasoline be measured using an 80 degree standard, so our island brothers actually get more "gas to the gallon."
I am no expert, but underground or not, I am willing to guess that the gasoline in the tanks in Arizona are a heck of a lot warmer than 60 degrees. Besides, where does the gas come from? Not from an underground, even temperature source..........but from a tanker truck that yesterday, was driving around in 107 degrees.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Randy
Well-known member
I bet they won't be too quick to give money back when the temp drops below 60?
Where I live, the average temp is 52.9 degrees, so, should I tell these people to shut their pie hole before they start making me pay more since, according to the theory, I get more 'gallons per gallon' due to the temp being below the 60 degree average?
Where I live, the average temp is 52.9 degrees, so, should I tell these people to shut their pie hole before they start making me pay more since, according to the theory, I get more 'gallons per gallon' due to the temp being below the 60 degree average?
Rev Ed
Active member
I would love to comment on "expanding gas" but probably not in good taste for this Reverend! :blink:
Seriously, though, just how desperate is the media to make some sort of headline! I say we call "mythbusters" and let them check it out!
Seriously, though, just how desperate is the media to make some sort of headline! I say we call "mythbusters" and let them check it out!
bramfrank
BramFrank
Is it me? Or isn't it that they pump this 35 degree gas (which is denser) and charge you for a larger volume, because the gas temperature is 'below' 60 degrees.
Now, when they first started this crap, an oil company spokesperson explained that what the oil companies were selling was fuel measured by it's energy content - in other words, the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas at a standard temperature.
Last time I checked, energy wasn't measured by volume, but in BTUs, Joules, Kilocalories or any of the other energy measuring units - and oil companies sell based on VOLUME, which is quite another matter.
I stopped feeling sorry for the oil companies as soon as it became clear that they were ripping us off by creating shortages and higher crude prices artifically.
Now, when they first started this crap, an oil company spokesperson explained that what the oil companies were selling was fuel measured by it's energy content - in other words, the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas at a standard temperature.
Last time I checked, energy wasn't measured by volume, but in BTUs, Joules, Kilocalories or any of the other energy measuring units - and oil companies sell based on VOLUME, which is quite another matter.
I stopped feeling sorry for the oil companies as soon as it became clear that they were ripping us off by creating shortages and higher crude prices artifically.
Groo
The Endless Font of Useless Knowledge...
I have one piece of advice for everyone who feels they get ripped off at the gas station.. buy XON stock. Then you can be an evil profiteer too... :yahoo:
The whole deal just doesn't pass the common sense test. Think about it. Here they are making a big deal out of something that might change the actual cost of a tank of fuel by a few cents.....but, by comparison, the price of fuel can go up and down by 50 cents a gallon overnight and no-one is crying about whether the "energy content" changed or what the temperature of the fuel is.... In the grande scheme of things it is pure BS whether there is any scientific fact behind it or not. The only people looking to get rich here (or get any money back at all) is the trial lawyers perpetrating the scam....er....ah.....class action lawsuit. They will get 25 cents back for each person that signs on and walk away with millions themselves. It is nothing but a scam. They get ignoramouses (like the guy quoted who was worried about the "fumes") to sign onto the class action suit who know nothing about what the suit intails just to establish a client base for the lawsuit.
Next thing they will be sueing over the fact that "premium" fuel at altitude is really only 89 octance instead of 93 like at sea level. You are just NOT getting the "octane" you paid for at altitude. What about fuel with 10 percent ethanol....??? Are you being charged for pure gasoline or what since the energy content of the ethanol is less than gasoline???
Next thing they will be sueing over the fact that "premium" fuel at altitude is really only 89 octance instead of 93 like at sea level. You are just NOT getting the "octane" you paid for at altitude. What about fuel with 10 percent ethanol....??? Are you being charged for pure gasoline or what since the energy content of the ethanol is less than gasoline???
Wolfhound
Wildman
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