How to balance a tire.......again

[mattster31]

So I mounted a new set of Azzaros a couple weeks ago, and I thought all was good.............until I took the bike over 90mph. That's when the front end would shake as if it (the tire) was not balanced properly. I had balanced it as best I could and poured in some dynabeads for good measure, so I thought "why is this happening??" (I just used the axle bearings for balancing, clearly not sensitive enough). Well I took the tire off today to do it all over again. Now, those of us who bought the Azzaros in the sell-off in the spring will note that none of the tires had a dot for the light spot, right?? right........This is how to find it. BTW I yanked the bearings out of my wife roller blades to make a home made balancer (I'll get a pic out soon, you guys will kill yourselves laughing, but it worked great) but I digress.............

I know lots of you guys and gals know how to do this, but I'm just fillin' in the others in case they were wonderin'

Step 1. Take rim, sans tire, and place on balancer. This will show you the heavy spot on the rim. Mark this spot.

Step 2. Add enough weight to the rim in order to balance it. Mine took exactly 1/4 ounce.

Step 3. Install tire on rim, but do not seat the bead yet.

Step 4. Place tire/rim back on balancer. This will now show you the heavy spot on the tire (as the rim is neutral) Mark the opposite side of the tire.

Step 5. Remove the weight from the rim that was previously added, and spin the tire around the rim until the two markings line up. This now lines up the light spot on the tire with the heavy spot on the rim.

Step 6. Seat the bead, and place it back on the balancer. Now simply add enough weight until the tire is balanced. Mine took exactly 1 ounce. (The bearings were sensitive enough to approx 4 grams, or about 1/8th of an ounce)

Now here is the strange part, I already had 3/4 of an ounce on the rim before with almost an ounce of Dynabeads in the tire, and it still shook! The previous weight was almost in the same spot, so I thought the beads would account for any discrepancy. I'm thinking the beads just didn't like the Avons or something 'cause I ran them in my D220's and they worked great. In fact that's ALL I had in the D220!! no weight on the rim. Now that I have the tire re-balanced I have not put Dynabeads back in the front (still in the rear). The tire is great now, speeds 130+ with no bounce at all. Not sure I'm sold on the beads any more. As for the tire itself...........sticks great, awsome in the rain, but at walking pace it wiggles. No headshake.........yet, we will see on that one.

EDIT: why I even posted this I have no idea...............I should not be posting after Canada Day celebrations (dam that Canadian beer!!) and WTF am I doing up at 3 in the morning??????

 

[MCRIDER007]

Been there, done that...on another member's front Azzaro.

Regarding Step 3...you cannot find the tire's actual light spot unless you bead the tire...but it doesn't matter that much because you probably do not have a balance problem. Avon hand lays the cords on their tires and if the cords are just a couple of mm off then you get the problem that you are describing.

Solution: Call Avon and insist on a new tire.

 

[Warchild]

Now here is the strange part, I already had 3/4 of an ounce on the rim before with almost an ounce of Dynabeads in the tire, and it still shook!

Dynabeads, eh? Well, I don't want to get into religious issues, but removing this non-standard component from your tire would be the first thing I would try when troubleshooting your symptoms.

I must lead a charmed life.... I may have mounted more Avon Azaro's and Avon Storms than anyone on our forum over the years, and with the exception of one rear Azaro, none have taken an excessive amount of weight to balance. And even that one rear Azaro wasn't that bad... about 30g, more than I generally care to put on a wheel, but acceptable enough.

 

[mattster31]

Dynabeads, eh? Well, I don't want to get into religious issues, but removing this non-standard component from your tire would be the first thing I would try when troubleshooting your symptoms.I must lead a charmed life.... I may have mounted more Avon Azaro's and Avon Storms than anyone on our forum over the years, and with the exception of one rear Azaro, none have taken an excessive amount of weight to balance. And even that one rear Azaro wasn't that bad... about 30g, more than I generally care to put on a wheel, but acceptable enough.

The issue with mine was clearly an improper balance in the first place. I just tried to let the wheel bearings and the axle do it for me.......not! I thought the beads would compensate.............again, not!! The balancer I made with the rollerblade bearings worked fantastic. Again, the front is perfect now with 28.35g of weight and NO Dynabeads. I'll be removing them from the rear tire also...........no longer a fan of those.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

mattster,

I hope you were not trying to balance the tire with the DynaBeads in the Tire...they go in After the tire is installed as a weight replacement or to assist with more precision balance.

I have had them in my PR2's for the last 11k front/ 8.5k rear with no problems and just recovered them after the tires were replaced this week.

Good Luck with your balance.

 

[mattster31]

mattster,
I hope you were not trying to balance the tire with the DynaBeads in the Tire...

Ohhhh crap........... :dribble:

of course not :glare: :glare:

 

[Auburn]

If dyna beads work so well, you would see the manufacturers using them instead of taking the time to do a static balance the wheels. IMHO dynabeads they are a crock of ****.

Been balancing tires with a steel rod on jack stands (now I use a Marc Panes balancer on jack stands) for years for road racing. Never had a tire that shook due to balancing. I have had several shake under heavy braking, but that was due to the construction and profile of the front tire. Static balancing is a tried and true method. You will even see the tire manufacturers use at the races on all of the ires they mount for the race teams.

 

[Duster19]

If dyna beads work so well, you would see the manufacturers using them instead of taking the time to do a static balance the wheels. IMHO dynabeads they are a crock of ****.
Been balancing tires with a steel rod on jack stands (now I use a Marc Panes balancer on jack stands) for years for road racing. Never had a tire that shook due to balancing. I have had several shake under heavy braking, but that was due to the construction and profile of the front tire. Static balancing is a tried and true method. You will even see the tire manufacturers use at the races on all of the ires they mount for the race teams.

All I can say is the tire (Avon Azzaro) that Auburn put on my bike has not wiggled or shaked at any speed. I know for a fact it can handle 132 mph .... I accidently showed the wife that when showing her all the features of my Garmin 2730. She simply looked at me and said why would you ever need to go that fast. All, I could come up with is some where in Utah it just seemed right to do.

Dave

 

[Harald]

Like Auburn, I used to use just the bike axle and wheel bearings to balance and never had a problem. Wanting more precision, I made my own balance setup using bearings that came out of a aircraft flight recorder tape deck drive system (comparable to roller skate bearings I'm sure). I'd be interested in seeing your setup, so post up the pictures!

The only time I had a problem with a tire I mounted, the problem ended up being unrelated to the balance or the tire itself. I didn't use enough lube when seating the bead and the tire wasn't evenly seated. As you can imagine, this will lead to vibration/bouncing that could be misdiagnosed as a balance problem. Could this have been your problem?

 

[mattster31]

Regarding Step 3...you cannot find the tire's actual light spot unless you bead the tire...but it doesn't matter that much because you probably do not have a balance problem. Avon hand lays the cords on their tires and if the cords are just a couple of mm off then you get the problem that you are describing.

I'm curious as to why you say the tire must be beaded at this stage. The front fits snug enough that it won't spin on the rim (If that's what you are referencing) without a good deal of force....... ergo, the heavy spot drops. I'm pretty sure it was a balance issue as the weight was in the wrong spot. It's now perfectly balanced with 1oz (NO beads this time). The problem the first time was there was enough stiction in the wheel bearings to prevent the wheel from spinning freely (the bearings appear to have been replaced, either that or they need to be replaced) anyhow........now the bike tracks left!!! I installed tapered bearings recently so I think I need to loosen the triple clamp up then re-tighten.

 

[mattster31]

The only time I had a problem with a tire I mounted, the problem ended up being unrelated to the balance or the tire itself. I didn't use enough lube when seating the bead and the tire wasn't evenly seated. As you can imagine, this will lead to vibration/bouncing that could be misdiagnosed as a balance problem. Could this have been your problem?

I only use a very mild soapy solution in a spray bottle for installing the tires. Seems to do the trick.

 

[dcarver]

The only time I had a problem with a tire I mounted, the problem ended up being unrelated to the balance or the tire itself. I didn't use enough lube when seating the bead and the tire wasn't evenly seated. As you can imagine, this will lead to vibration/bouncing that could be misdiagnosed as a balance problem. Could this have been your problem?

I only use a very mild soapy solution in a spray bottle for installing the tires. Seems to do the trick.

I used to use the same solution. Then I got 'NuGlyde' from Napa, and will never go back. Serious. Much better.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Regarding Step 3...you cannot find the tire's actual light spot unless you bead the tire...but it doesn't matter that much because you probably do not have a balance problem. Avon hand lays the cords on their tires and if the cords are just a couple of mm off then you get the problem that you are describing.

I'm curious as to why you say the tire must be beaded at this stage. The front fits snug enough that it won't spin on the rim (If that's what you are referencing) without a good deal of force....... ergo, the heavy spot drops. I'm pretty sure it was a balance issue as the weight was in the wrong spot.

I probably should have said "you MAY not find the tire's actual light spot unless you bead the tire".

When we were trying to find the light spot on the tire we first did exactly what you did but didn't feel the result was accurate so we beaded the tire and got a much different result. A way to check if you actually found the light spot of the tire is to look where the weights are after you finish balancing, the weights should be at the light spot of the tire/heavy spot of the rim or directly opposite.

 

[Bounce]

I agree about not using the dynabeads. other than that, it seems to me like, if i read it right, you're aligning all the heavy spots together. that would make the tire/rim combo as much out of balance together as possible.

following your method would make the combo the worst it could be and lead to the most weight needed to balance the tire.

Balance your rim

Mark the heavy spot

mount the tire

move it's heavy spot OPPOSITE the rim's

this will make for the most neutral combo possible.

THEN add weights to balance the pair.

using this i've been able to balance tires using GRAMS (not ounces).

 

[mattster31]

I probably should have said "you MAY not find the tire's actual light spot unless you bead the tire".
When we were trying to find the light spot on the tire we first did exactly what you did but didn't feel the result was accurate so we beaded the tire and got a much different result. A way to check if you actually found the light spot of the tire is to look where the weights are after you finish balancing, the weights should be at the light spot of the tire/heavy spot of the rim or directly opposite.

I'll try that method on my next tire and see if there is a difference. Thanks!!

 

[mattster31]

I agree about not using the dynabeads. other than that, it seems to me like, if i read it right, you're aligning all the heavy spots together. that would make the tire/rim combo as much out of balance together as possible.
following your method would make the combo the worst it could be and lead to the most weight needed to balance the tire.

Balance your rim

Mark the heavy spot

mount the tire

move it's heavy spot OPPOSITE the rim's

this will make for the most neutral combo possible.

THEN add weights to balance the pair.

using this i've been able to balance tires using GRAMS (not ounces).

I re-read my method, and I think I'm explaining it correctly. I am aligning the heavy spot on the rim with the light one on the tire.