How top heavy is the FJR?

[Sid Post]

I am torn between the FJR and BMW boxer. I am tempted by the new BWM 800ST but, a few options and bags and it is going to cost me more then the FJR. The BMW Boxer's are very tempting and I have considered a GS1200 but, with hard cases and spoke wheels I'm looking at a heck of lot more money. I can't see myself doing much serious off road work so, the while I like the general GS1200 platform it is hard for me to get over the price.

I'm thinking a FJR and Kawasaki KLX-250S for the same money might be a better overall choice for me. The little 250 is a no brainer except for that darn itty bitty gas tank and no load carrying capacity. What are they thinking when you break the back end adding a buddy can for gasoline?

The FJR appears to offer a high torque power band which is HUGE on my list of wants. It has healthy horsepower too but, I want good torque down low and no dead spots in the RPM range. Do I really want to pass someone without downshifting? Probably not but, being able to just pull out into the passing lane and hitting the throttle is nice.

I am concerned that that my 32 inch Levi inseam is too short for the saddle of an FJR. If I am on my toes too much and the FJR has a tendency to be top heavy it will do me in. I can see the boxer engine putting a lot of weight down low which is a huge bonus for me. If I don't put a top case on the FJR, how top heavy is it going to be? How do I quantify what is too much for me personally?

FWIW, I went through the entry level MSF course and nailed all the aspects of that class. Low speed figure 8's on a Honda CRF200 were relatively easy for me even though they were really hard for a lot of the class. That soft suspension and tall profile made the figure 8's harder I think then they would have been on that little 225cc twin that some of the other students were using.

At under $14K, the FJR with cases is lot cheaper then any BMW option I have. The price difference will pay for a lot of farkles, training, and more protective gear to supplement what I already own.

Is this a reasonable consideration for me? Is the FJR too much for a returning rider who has demonstrated good skill on a little enduro bike? Is it so top heavy or tall in the saddle that I risk hurting myself in parking lot maneuvers?

TIA!

Sid

 

[markjenn]

Hi Sid,

This is really a two-part question:

1. With my skills, is a GS or FJR too much bike?

2. For someone with a modest inseam, which is the better bike?

On (1), hard to say. Just because you sailed through an MSF course, doesn't mean you're confident and safe on a 675-lb, 145-hp missile. If you do get the dirt bike in addiition, you'll at least have something to slide around a bit and improve your stick/rudder skills without risking a crash that will cost you thousands.

I think this tradeoff has a lot to do with the indivdiual. If you're cautious, careful, are committed to further training, don't ride with hotheads, wear all the gear, etc., you're probably fine. But you'll probably dump the bike a time or two as you acclimate which can be expensive.

Another consideration.... do you really NEED a FJR. If you're not doing some serious miles, there are lots of bikes out there that are a complete gas and wouldn't be so big, heavy and powerful. When you're taking up a lifelong relationship with motorcycling, you don't need to go all the way on the first date. For your situation, it's hard to beat one of the 650 Suzukis, for example.

On (2), both are pretty big bikes. The GS is probably a little easier to handle; it's a good 125 lbs lighter, has a lower CG, and has wider handlebars with more leverage which tends to help low-speed manevering. Seat heights are about the same, I'd guess. Yes, the BMW is expensive. Weather protection on the FJR is a lot better. All in all, the BMW is probably a little more mangeable for someone your size, a lot better on poorer roads, more crashable, a lot slower, and has much less weather protection. It all depends on whether you want a big road burner or an all-around SUV type bike. And how much the extra $$$ of the BMW hurts.

Good luck with your choice. And don't look past the DRZ400S for the dirt bike - it's another contender.

- Mark

 

[sprint_st]

Mark,

Excellent reply!

I've been riding for around 40 years. I also passed the MSF with flying colors, but kept my mouth shut (no small fete) because the course doesn't begin to scratch the surface of basic road survival techniques. It is a GREAT starting point and I recommend it to old and new riders. I had the misfortune of getting too big a bike for my son and the impatience of youth led to an accident. Nothing damaged except some fiberglass and his desire to ride. IMO, new riders need an entry level bike and a couple of years riding experience before they launch into an FJR and even then they need to take it slow.

Sid, BMW makes great bikes and the FJR is a great bike. Each one has it's own issues. Once you get some experience you will be able to handle anything. 32 inches is NOT a short inseam. I'm 6'2" and mine is 33". Neither one of us should have a problem with feet touching the ground. Please, consider a "beater" bike for a year or so. There are lots of them and usually you can sell them for about what you put into them.

Rod

 

[FantasticJohnR]

Sid, go for the smaller lighter bike. Based on your concerns this would seem the best for you. The biggest mistake most early riders make is buying too much bike for their experience.

John

 

[weekend rider]

Sid: Great starter bike suzuki 650v-storm

 

[Rogue]

What kind of riding do you plan on doing? Commuting, trips, canyons, ......?

 

[jwilly]

"FWIW, I went through the entry level MSF course and nailed all the aspects of that class. Low speed figure 8's on a Honda CRF200 were relatively easy for me even though they were really hard for a lot of the class. That soft suspension and tall profile made the figure 8's harder I think then they would have been on that little 225cc twin that some of the other students were using."

Sid I know the point your trying to make that you did a great job in the rider course, which is awesome! However doing figure "8's" on the FJR with little or no experience would be like doing figure 8's on unicycle with a 600lb gorilla on you shoulders.

Like others have mentioned, try something smaller for awhile and then fire up an FJR.

Good luck and ride long!!

-jwilly

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Hmm...an FJR and an enduro. Who would have thunk it

 

[Sid Post]

Sid, go for the smaller lighter bike. Based on your concerns this would seem the best for you. The biggest mistake most early riders make is buying too much bike for their experience.

John

That's why I'm asking the questions instead of riding an FJR or BMW.

Fatalities with middle aged men buying too much motorcycle is what I am trying to avoid. The good posts so far have me convinced that the FJR is a bad choice for me personally at this time.

I REALLY appreciate the advice I'm getting in this thread. THANK YOU!

Sid: Great starter bike suzuki 650v-storm

I have tried the V-strom 650 more then once at the dealer's showroom because people keep recommending it. I know it's a good motorcycle but, I'm just not comfortable on it. The seat height is low enough but, I guess the seat and tank are too wide for me because I feel unstable on it with my feet down. Actually, the BMW GS1200 gives me a better feeling of security then this Suzuki which is a great match for a lot of other people.

What kind of riding do you plan on doing? Commuting, trips, canyons, ......?

I want to do some commuting to and from work in Southern Arizona on it. Top speed is 60MPH and it's about 20 miles each way.

I also want something I can take on 3 day weekend camping trips within a 400 mile range.

I'm not a real agressive rider, canyon racer wanna'bee, or someone who will ride with others because I don't want their skill level to encourage me to exceed mine. When I have better skills years from now, I may do some group rides.

I also want something I can take on a once a year vacation that is typically about a 1200 mile ride one way. Considering that is a once a year ride, I am willing to completely give it up for a motorcycle that will work better as a commuter and short trip ride to the camp site or national park.

I also love leisurely "trail" rides on public roads that aren't paved but, not totally washed out, heavily rutted, or in general not maintained for safe easy travel.

If I thought a 250cc Kawasaki would get me safely out of the rat race and heavy fast urban traffic, I could see that being my primary ride but it just isn't safe for short stretches on the interstate at a minimum of 80MPH. Maybe a BMW F650 Dakar is a better choice ....

Sid I know the point your trying to make that you did a great job in the rider course, which is awesome! However doing figure "8's" on the FJR with little or no experience would be like doing figure 8's on unicycle with a 600lb gorilla on you shoulders.
Like others have mentioned, try something smaller for awhile and then fire up an FJR.

Good luck and ride long!!

-jwilly

While my skill with a light weight enduro is very good and I have some street savvy, as you noted I wanted to understand if the center of gravity of the FJR would be compatible with a conservative rider like myself. I had some people recommend a Honda ST1300 which I found at a local dealer and immediately knew it was a bad choice. I have never been on an FJR in a show room and I only briefly saw one in person in a parking lot once. It didn't look as massive as the Honda ST1300 so, I was hoping it would be nimble enough for me.

I wouldn't intentionally put myself in parking lot situation requiring a tight turn, much less a figure 8. If it had a low enough center of gravity, I would "walk" it out of a bad parking lot situation. I certainly wouldn't expect to man handle it like I can a 235 pound enduro bike.

 

[markjenn]

You sound like you're giving this some good thought.

Can't get too much behind the F650. I've ridden a few of them and they just seemed like a whole lot of money for a slightly guzzied up KLR. They're on the verge of being discontinued too.

I'd recommend you go ahead with a 400 or 650 trail bike for now and get the FJR in a year or two, except for that need to do 1200 mile trips. People do it, but this is just a lot of miles on a single.

How about the new Kawasaki 650R? It's reported to be a great first bike but fun even for an experienced rider. It's specifically engineered to be less intimidating and to have a lower seat height than the 650 Suzukis.

I keep coming back to some 650 twin, or perhaps a Yamaha FZ6. Did you sit on all the 650 Suzukis? They make three models I think and they all have slightly different ergos.

If you want to wait until spring, we're supposed to get he F800 in then. This looks like a very nice bike, albeit pricey.

If you decide you want to try the big bike first, you might think about the R1200R. All reports are that it is simply an outstanding bike and and the lack of bodywork will minimize costs after tipovers.

Lots of choices, but my first one would be to ride a DRZ400S or KLR650 for a year doing your trail riding and exploring thing. Then keep it as a trail bike and buy the FJR or whatever for that first big trip. Buying two bikes right off the bat seems a little crazy when you're in the starting out mode. Who knows, maybe you'll get a hankering for an all-out sportbike, ala ZX-10R. Or maybe you'll get bitten by the adventure touring thing and want a KTM990. Or you'll decide you want to go funky and get a Moto Guzzi Griso. Keep your options open. Get the little bike now. Explore, learn, get some seasoning, see how you want to use your bike. And keep the big money in the bank.

- Mark

 

[madmike2]

I'd be a bit wary of getting any 250cc bike. They are not going to be very useable at 60 mph. The 500's or 650's will be light but have enough power to ride at highway speeds.

 

[Duff]

:dribble:

 

[steeld]

Sid

I returned to bikes in 2002 after an absence of 25+ years. My last bike back in those days was a Honda CB400F, a beautifully smooth good-looker that churned out 37 BHP. I was concerned about getting back my road experience on a bike that had ample power but not too OTT. I went for a nearly-new Yamaha FZS600 (FZ6 in the States). This was a great bike - bags of power (95 BHP), quite nimble and very satisfying to ride. I might have changed it for a newer model had it not been for the appalling but fashionable instrument layout they now use.

Eighteen months after having the 600, I saw a 3-month old FJR at my dealer. A kid had bought it for his first bike and couldn't handle it so he traded it in for a VFR. The FJR in comparison was much bigger, much heavier and required more effort in town traffic. I've had it three years now and have got used to it (I have a 28 inch inseam BTW). I love my FJR - it's the only bike I've ever had for so long. It's good and I am having trouble knowing what to replace it with (except another FJR!). However, if I had bought one first off, I'm sure I would have hated it - it would be too big a mountain to climb.

So, in answer to your question, I would not advise going for an FJR for your first bike even if you have some riding experience. It's way too much. Even a 600cc Yamaha will frighten you enough and that's without the weight and bulk to contend with on top. I'm glad I went the route I did - the first 18 months on the 600 taught me a lot. That's the route I recommend anyone to go - cut your teeth on a smaller bike first. It will give you the skill and experience to survive on a bigger bike. Besides, a 600 is a world apart from a 250 and you might find one of those more than enough for your needs.

 

[TheRepairMan]

Hey Sid! I also think the little We-Strom is just about perfect for your short term needs, and considered one for myself until I took one look at the 06 998cc Yamaha FZ1. It sits almost perfectly upright with only the slightest tilt toward your hands, weighs even less than the 650 V-Strom and not all that much more expensive. BMW? ...ehh ...save your money.

It was a no brain-er to me at that point. The 650 was fun to ride, but this FZ1 handles the mountain passes like an R1, and has big power on tap that makes the bike something you won't out grow anytime soon. It's one liter fuel injected 4 cylinder makes more torque from 3,500rpm on than even the Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom so passing is not a problem in any gear, and much smoother doing so.

There are a number of companies finally catching up to the new design of the 06-07 FZ1 in the aftermarket accessories such as bags, fairing, shields and so forth to make it a nice mid weight sport tourer. The FZ1s are great bikes to get some real road time experience on until you decide to move up to an FJR. Even at my age I can easily do 100 mile runs before a break, and be smiling when I do get off. It's so much fun that I haven't ridden back to the house yet that I didn't want to get out and ride even more. If you are looking at doing longer rides on an even more comfortable platform you can pick up a first generation FZ1 (01-05) at a decent price and most likely the previous owner has already done the touring mods to make it a turn key affair. Many FJR owners either have or have had FZ1s and can tell you how good they are. A lot of the other FJR owners probably wish they owned one ...in addition to their big Yamaha.

You can check out all the FZ1s at https://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/

or my thread here about my new FZ1...

BTW, I had been out of biking for over a decade and bought the FZ1 for my Fiftieth Birthday. :yahoo: I definitely see myself on a new FJR when I grow up!

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=8205

Roger

 

[Dan23]

>>Is it so top heavy or tall in the saddle that I risk hurting myself in parking lot maneuvers?<<

More injuries happen at low speeds on motorcycles than at high speed. (I know... anecdotal and dependent on how one defines high/low speed.) Point is, you're apt to run into that problem regardless of which bike you choose. IMO bottom line is consider and choose carefully but the FJR is a lot for you to bite off. That said, some have done so successfully.... but not by my recommedation.

Oh, and think carefully before choosing a BMW. Read their sites awhile. The bikes are overpriced junk ridden primarily by people striving to be a little bit better than everyone else. FJR owners tend to be people who would like to be BMW owners, but cannot afford them. ;-)

Best of luck to you.

 

[BentAero]

While my skill with a light weight enduro is very good and I have some street savvy, as you noted I wanted to understand if the center of gravity of the FJR would be compatible with a conservative rider like myself. I had some people recommend a Honda ST1300 which I found at a local dealer and immediately knew it was a bad choice. I have never been on an FJR in a show room and I only briefly saw one in person in a parking lot once. It didn't look as massive as the Honda ST1300 so, I was hoping it would be nimble enough for me.

I wouldn't intentionally put myself in parking lot situation requiring a tight turn, much less a figure 8. If it had a low enough center of gravity, I would "walk" it out of a bad parking lot situation. I certainly wouldn't expect to man handle it like I can a 235 pound enduro bike.

Sid,

I'm coming off of a ST1300 that I've ridden 35K miles and buying a Feejer. Why? It's too heavy and esp. TOP heavy! The ST redefines top heavy. To me, the FJR feels downright light in comparo. I would definitely NOT recommend an ST at this time.

Inseam: I'm a 32", and the ST sits higher that an FJR and I don't have toooo many issues with it, but at times it makes me nervous in parking lot manuevers when the wife's on the back. However, as your skills build, it's less of an issue. I did the MSF ERC course on the ST with my wife riding two-up the entire time, figure eights and all without incident. BTW, are you sitting/riding these 'test' bikes with proper riding boots or nike's? Makes a big diff when you're trying to reach the ground.

Someone mentioned the new Kawi 650R. Though it wouldn't satisfy your off-road fix, it would certainly be a confidence builder while being fun, powerful enough, comfortable, etc. I'd like to have one myself.

My understanding of V-Strom's is that it has a fairly tall seat height and pretty heavy for what it is. Have you looked at the SV650/1000 models? With some bar risers added, could be a great choice for now.

No matter what you choose, at this season in your life, I'd try to buy a virtually new, used bike. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. That way, if you don't like it, you can unload it fairly easily without getting stung financially.

 

[evil_henchman]

As usual, much ado about nothing. :glare: Get what gives you wood and learn to live with it. Just remember, laying a fully fared bike down in motion cost's big $$$ h34r:

 

[throttlejockeyTJ]

I also was a returning rider. I didn't know what I wanted. I got an SV 650 model 2002 in Oct. 2004 the dealer wanted to dump before winter. I got my skills back. In Dec. I decided on the FJR and PDD. I kept it eight months as it was fun to ride and FJR was months away. BTW I also am 32 inseam. Get the 250 get your skills back & then get the FJR. TJ

I forgot to mention, get Hough's Proficient Motorcycling to get your head back in the game of being safe in traffic on a MC. TJ

 

[rogdeb]

Hey Sid! I also think the little We-Strom is just about perfect for your short term needs, and considered one for myself until I took one look at the 06 998cc Yamaha FZ1. It sits almost perfectly upright with only the slightest tilt toward your hands, weighs even less than the 650 V-Strom and not all that much more expensive. BMW? ...ehh ...save your money.

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