Imbalance problem at high speed

[Bustanut joker]

Bluesy hit on you while you was taking a leak?

 

[odot]

Doesn't count....I was farting at the same time.

 

[FJRbobliz]

Thanks for further feedback. I have gone over rear swing arm shaft. Had slight movement so I increased the size at bearing races eliminating the play. Equivalent to knurled at bearing races. Seldom ride in rain! Micrometer good idea but when I put axle through the wheel and can move it up and down in the inner race of the bearing you know axle shaft is too small. Yes axle is sloppy in the hole. Both issues present - improved them by increasing size of shaft at bearing races.

What I have not done is increased the size of the total axle.

 

[escapefjrtist]

What year is the bike?

You mention warranty and paper trail via Yamaha / dealer. Since you've had the problem from get-go [new?] let the dealer sort it out.

Good luck and don't give up.

--G

 

[RadioHowie]

Thanks for further feedback. I have gone over rear swing arm shaft. Had slight movement so I increased the size at bearing races eliminating the play. Equivalent to knurled at bearing races. Seldom ride in rain! Micrometer good idea but when I put axle through the wheel and can move it up and down in the inner race of the bearing you know axle shaft is too small. Yes axle is sloppy in the hole. Both issues present - improved them by increasing size of shaft at bearing races.

What I have not done is increased the size of the total axle.

Little of this makes any sense. You "increase(d) the size at bearing race" by boogering up the bearing race??? That's crazy talk!

And "you know axle shaft is too small. Yes axle is sloppy in the hole."

I'd be hard pressed to be convinced the axle is too small. The bearings, which the axle goes through, could be wallowed out due to many things...water/crud got in there causing premature wear, wrong bearing sourced at manufacturing time, wrong bearings installed by previous owner. But the wrong size axle? That dog don't hunt. This requires further inspection and information if you ask me.

 

[Bustanut joker]

this is starting to smell...

 

[08FJR4ME]

2010 FJR 1300 - Issues I have been dealing with: undersized rear axle, side play in rear wheel, front fork bushings were replaced under warranty because they were worn out, have balanced and rebalanced both wheels several times as well as tire replacements and further rebalance, replaced front bearings and installed tapered rollers in the headset... still have imbalance at 75 mpg MPH on up. Checked both wheels with dial gage indicator - o.k. Anyone experienced similar issues.

Some pictures would help solve this quickly.

1) almost unheard of with that many miles! My guess is they did the rear also and installed the wrong bearings. So are you on your 3'rd set of front bearings?

2) How can you check the wheels with an indicator while also stating you can rock the rear wheel back an forth and be o.k.?


Appreciate all the feedback. Bike has never been wrecked! Not missing washer - have all the Wrong parts. Running almost new BT-023 rear and almost new Metzler on front. Have had wheels balanced with and without tires. No top case. Side play = rocking motion pulling and pushing top to bottom of rear wheel @ 90 ft /lbs axle torque. Bike has 15,000 miles. This issue was from the get go... paper trail re warranty with Yamaha... scheduled to go into another Yamaha dealer tomorrow for further assessment having spoken with Regional Tech. Advisor at Long Beach Show early December.


Fixed it

Good luck with the next dealer but in my opinion you have some incorrect parts installed.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Thanks for further feedback. I have gone over rear swing arm shaft. Had slight movement so I increased the size at bearing races eliminating the play. Equivalent to knurled at bearing races. Seldom ride in rain! Micrometer good idea but when I put axle through the wheel and can move it up and down in the inner race of the bearing you know axle shaft is too small. Yes axle is sloppy in the hole. Both issues present - improved them by increasing size of shaft at bearing races.

What I have not done is increased the size of the total axle.

Huh! ???

How did you increase the size of the bearing races? If they were knurled I don't get it! Bearings require a smooth surface to run on last I new. None of this is making any sence. So if the stock shaft I presume is loose, most likely those bearings were shot also. Was there any wear or score marks on the shaft to indicate there was a problem?

Interested to find out the outcome.

 

[FJRBluesman]

With all due respect: Many good ideas brought up here. We're at a slight disadvantage in that we aren’t there to check things, so we’re winging it on what’s going on. Your explanations are the only thing we have to go by, and they must be very detailed and precise. You can see we have it narrowed down to a few areas, but we’re struggling too. I know you’re trying your best too, but we’re also wondering what’s up with some of your details.

Again I’m not trying to insult you, but how mechanically incline are you? Do you have another friend that knows bikes that could help or better yet another FJR owner near by that knows the bike well and is good at trouble shooting. From your profile we have no clue where you are to see if a forum member is near by.

I’m really surprised the dealer can’t figure this out by now as they are MC experts. I’d be pulling the rear wheel and using a caliper (use an inside micrometer for better results) to check inside bearing race diameter etc. I’d also check the run out of the axle, how true is it etc. A long shot is also an issue with where all this mounts, to the final drive pumpkin, the bearings and inserts in there.

Anyway, give us some more detail to what’s been asked and we’ll continue to support.

Good luck.

 

[Fred W]

When you torque the axle nut you should be compressing the entire stack of spacers, washers and inner bearing races. If you feel slop at the wheel rim (in reference to the swing arm) after torquing the axle nut up the most likely problem is the bearings themselves being sloppy. The axle isn't likely to be moving around inside of those spacers or inner bearing races with 90 lb-ft of torque being applied.

 

[John d]

When you torque the axle nut you should be compressing the entire stack of spacers, washers and inner bearing races. If you feel slop at the wheel rim (in reference to the swing arm) after torquing the axle nut up the most likely problem is the bearings themselves being sloppy. The axle isn't likely to be moving around inside of those spacers or inner bearing races with 90 lb-ft of torque being applied.

+1. The axle is not intended to be a perfect fit. There is a problem, but it's not likely the axle. If knurling the axle to fit the bearing inner race better improves the condition, then something is preventing all the spacers and bearings from be torqued squarely and securely together.

 

[HotRodZilla]

When you torque the axle nut you should be compressing the entire stack of spacers, washers and inner bearing races. If you feel slop at the wheel rim (in reference to the swing arm) after torquing the axle nut up the most likely problem is the bearings themselves being sloppy. The axle isn't likely to be moving around inside of those spacers or inner bearing races with 90 lb-ft of torque being applied.

Won't the rear wheel have excessive movement if the rear axle spacer and washer are flipped? Although, I can't imagine it would be enough movement to cause the issues you're reporting.
Just for reference, how did you even get the idea that your axle was "too small?" Who started taking your bike apart and replacing stuff??

 

[rogdeb]

Maybe a new torque wrench will fix the problem?

 

[Fred W]

Won't the rear wheel have excessive movement if the rear axle spacer and washer are flipped?

Not sure I'm visualizing what you mean here. The axle can only be inserted from the right side of the bike (you know that). The stack of things it passes through that fit on the smaller diameter of the axle shaft are (in this order):

Washer, brake caliper, ABS sensor plate, wheel assembly, final drive assembly (left side swingarm), washer & nut.

Inside the wheel assembly are the wheel bearings on either end separated by some internal spacers so you aren't pinching the inner races of the bearings. The right side swingarm is the larger diameter of the axle, so it isn't compressed by the axle torque.

 

[weekend rider]

Maybe this story is sounding like somene is going fishing.

There are a lot of good people with mechanical know how and his problem should have been fixed with all the information that has been suggested.

It sure makes one wonder how a manufacture made one axel the wrong size?? Just saying

 

[John d]

Stupid question, but no one has mentioned the axle pinch bolt on the right side. Is it there, and is it being tightened after torquing the wheel axle?

 

[HotRodZilla]

Won't the rear wheel have excessive movement if the rear axle spacer and washer are flipped?

Not sure I'm visualizing what you mean here. The axle can only be inserted from the right side of the bike (you know that). The stack of things it passes through that fit on the smaller diameter of the axle shaft are (in this order):

Washer, brake caliper, ABS sensor plate, wheel assembly, final drive assembly (left side swingarm), washer & nut.

Inside the wheel assembly are the wheel bearings on either end separated by some internal spacers so you aren't pinching the inner races of the bearings. The right side swingarm is the larger diameter of the axle, so it isn't compressed by the axle torque.

Correct. I'm talking about the washer that goes between the caliper and the wheel (if I remember right) and the spacer that goes between the right swing arm and the caliper.

They ate similar in size and appearance, but I'd swear I remember someone.saying they had installed he washer where the spacer goes and the spacer where the washer goes, causing issues torquing the hole assembly tight.

Wouldn't be hard to do, and sounds more feesable than under sized axles and oversized knurled bearings.

Now do you know what I'm talking about or is it still gibberish?

 

[odot]

Yer a babbling baby, zilla. Gibberish is a step above you........

 

[08FJR4ME]

I am afraid we aren't going to here the rest of the story until the second dealer tears it apart.

 

[Fred W]

There's just one washer/spacer on the right side of the wheel, and it is supposed to go outboard of the caliper, inside of the right side swingarm. It's #21 in the below exploded parts diagram. I can see how it might be mistakenly installed inside the caliper. That would cause the brake caliper to be misaligned with the brake rotor.

Here's a 1000 words:

All of the stuff from Item 4 (oil seal) to item 8 (oil seal) is all captive inside the wheel hub. Then the stuff from there thru item 10 (bearing) is inside the cush drive. The only other washer or spacer that isn't inside the wheel is #19 the washer on the left side.