Insulate the air box for more hp

[charismaticmegafauna]

Intercooling is not done to increase charge density. Intercooling is done to prevent pre-ignition.

The primary purpose of the inter-cooler is to increase (charge) density.

To wit:

In the bigger picture where complex hydrocarbon molecules recombine with the components in air, under pressure, the resulting byproduct of heat is more related to chemical energy release and pressure rise than the temperature of the incoming air.

What cold air adds to this reaction is a denser mass of air which contains a higher volume of reactive molecules.

If the compressed intake charge were allowed into the engine uncooled, the compression stroke of the piston could heat it enough higher to ignite the fuel before compression is finished, a Bad Thing.

True, that's often a consideration with forced induction. Most often rectified with knock-sensors. In the case of Honda's turbo-charged motorcycles (19 lbs. boost, ASL) the ECM dumped-in huge quatities of fuel to prevent such occurances.

I wonder if cooler air in would mean a bit cooler running temp and cooler exhaust out. Something that is important for us Gen 1 riders.

The FJR's running temp is controlled by a coolant thermostat and fan(s) -- exhaust will be hotter with denser intake air (if, that actually happens...? )

 

[Fred W]

True, that's often a consideration with forced induction. Most often rectified with knock-sensors. In the case of Honda's turbo-charged motorcycles (19 lbs. boost, ASL) the ECM dumped-in huge quatities of fuel to prevent such occurances.

That might be how Honda does it, dunno... But with most turbo charged systems, the knock sensors just tell the ECU to dump boost via the wastegate, when it detects knocking, so anything that can prolong the knocking (like cooling the intake charge) is good for making more power. And more power is always more bettah!!

I know with our HOT SAABs if you run lower octane gas the ECU will limit boost substantially via the knock sensor (also limiting the fun factor). A few tanks of 93 (or better) and the boost needle is back up into the happy place.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Remove the two silver plastic side panels to improve the cool/ambient air flow over the existing air box.

Cost $0.00 Uglying-up your FJR... priceless!

I'm claiming up to 8.1 HP gain. Now prove me wrong.

 

[HaulinAshe]

...I know with our HOT SAABs if you run lower octane gas the ECU will limit boost substantially via the knock sensor (also limiting the fun factor). A few tanks of 93 (or better) and the boost needle is back up into the happy place.

Budget Rental Cars made the mistake of renting one of those to me several years ago. Really BAD mistake on their part. I bet it took months to get the rubber and asbestos smell out of that car.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Well, I'm sure it works every bit as well as these other Performance Mods:

The Turbonator

https://www.autoanything.com/air-intakes/77A4397A3355989.aspx?kc=ffskuThrottle Body Spacers

Cold Air Intakes (that actually suck in hot engine bay air)

Nitro Performance chip (for FJR's no less)

And the best part is, they all work 100% exactly as they are intended to!!

Spoiler

They seperate the foolish buyers from their money and make the sellers richer!

Thanks, Fred... I've always been wondering how to juice up the 23 HP 850cc V-twin Kohler in my lawn tractor......!! I think we're onto something....... alas, it has no FI.

 

[Fred W]

You could get the Kohler up to around 125 hp if you put all those mods on. Hell ya.

 

[ionbeam]

Budget Rental Cars made the mistake of renting one of those to me several years ago. Really BAD mistake on their part. I bet it took months to get the rubber and asbestos smell out of that car.

Hopefully that would be ASPHALT.

My poor car had rubber lined wheel wells and the interior always smelled of burning rubber. When I raced on weekends the big guns would come up and lay really nice wide sticky rubber stripes down the track and then I would come along and peel them up and coat the wheel wells and rear quarters. If I followed the right cars it would drop my 60' times by nearly 0.1 seconds.

 

[ionbeam]

Deleted duplicate post :blushsmiley:

 

[SacramentoMike]

"If you wanted even more cooling density you could run the intake through a refrigeration coil (like an AC system). . . "

OK, I don't know as much about all this complicated stuff, but I know when something has the ring of truth. And I liked this idea so much I decided to experiment with my car. It went so much faster I decided to mount something like it on the FJR. I'm waiting for a reply to my PM to Patriot for mounting suggestions.

If that doesn't work out, I was thinking about racing stripes. . .

 

[dustyrains]

I tend to agree with JamesK. Due to the location of the air box, and the lack of air flow over it or rammed into it, it will heat soak regardless of what it's covered with. It might take slightly longer to do so, but you're not really gaining anything since you won't be flogging it while the motor is still warming up.

The concept is strait forward. Cool air is denser and more oxygen means more fuel can be added and make more power.

However, so you gain 8 Hp and 1-4 ft/lbs of torque. Are you currently using what you have? If you're not using every bit of what you have, the increase is going to be barely noticeable, if at all.

No, I seldom run the rpm's higher than 6500. However, their website states that the power and torque is noticeable right off idle. The power is supposedly there all across the powerband.

 

[dustyrains]

Since it's always being filled with outside air, I don't see any benefit of insulating it. The air inside it doesn't sit there and get heated, it gets ingested into the engine. It spends even less time in the air box when you're right hand is cranked all the way back, so any heating during its milliseconds trip through the box is less than negligible.

The airbox is not a reservoir that stores air for when you need it. The planet itself does that part. You want cooler air, ride in the winter.

As for icing down the intake manifold at the drag strip, keep in mind that such cooling only needs to last a few seconds. It will not affect something that drives the hills all day. Also keep in mind that we have no intake manifold to speak of. There are mere centimeters between the throttles and the valves.

Anybody actually monitored the intake air temp in an insulated vs. non-insulated air box?

Now, put an A/C compressor on the bike and the condensor in the intake path, and maybe you'll cool the intake air. Compressor load might offset your power gain, though. . . .

That's kinda what I was thinking about this. So your airbox is insulated, that does not affect the temp of the air coming into the airbox.

 

[ionbeam]

No, I seldom run the rpm's higher than 6500. However, their website states that the power and torque is noticeable right off idle. The power is supposedly there all across the powerband.

Well hell, go for it. It must be true or they wouldn't have written it. I'm sure you will notice the power that they assure you is there.

So far so good...

Question

 

[dustyrains]

No, I seldom run the rpm's higher than 6500. However, their website states that the power and torque is noticeable right off idle. The power is supposedly there all across the powerband.

Well hell, go for it. It must be true or they wouldn't have written it. I'm sure you will notice the power that they assure you is there.

So far so good...

Question

Well, that is why I used the word "supposedly". If I did go and spend the money, the power would be there, even if only in my mind, dammit.

 

[tmc]

Well, that is why I used the word "supposedly". If I did go and spend the money, the power would be there, even if only in my mind, dammit.

The butt dyno..... it NEVER lies!!!!! :good:

 

[maddad]

Move North, I know in the fall I certainly get more horsepower than those of you down South. But that might just be the clean Canadian air as well.

 

[ScottyUSN]

The other product the site sells is a 2 phase injection cleaning system (Throttle body cleaner and SeaFoam). For ONLY $90.00 (Not including shipping).

 

[flyingz06]

LOL to the company that makes those!

 

[Karmak]

There was someone that had rigged up a dry Nitrous injection system on his FJR a couple of years back. Never did hear how it worked out for him. Maybe the engine fragged?

No, Fred. My engine did not "frag." Your comment shows a great deal of ignorance regarding NOS. I have a great deal of experience in running both dry and wet NOS. And no, the world is definitely not flat, either.

>On a more serious note, I ran NOS on my '05 FJR and have it on my '08 also. A short primer: NOS itself is not explosive. When introduced into the combustion process it releases more oxygen than ambient air. When introduced past the temp sensor in the airbox, it fools the sensor into adding more fuel (nitrous is very cold), so the engine doesn't run lean and detonate. For further insurance, just use a fuel injector control of any sort, a PC, Techlusion, etc. that will add even more fuel at any rpm you program (you only use nitrous when you run wide open). Many NOS systems offer lean sensors that shut it down if a lean condition occurs for even more insurance.

>NOS simply adds more oxygen-just a different method than a supercharger or turbo. Nothing to be afraid of if not abused.

>Why do it? I've raced many bikes for many years and it's kind of neat being able to hit the little button and get a boost. If you don't go any higher than +40hp, no need to beef up engine components.

>Should you do it? No reason to unless you like fiddling with it. You wouldn't want to use it in twisties and usually only in short, straight runs. Just another toy-but often misunderstood.

>It will not start a nuclear chain reaction that ends life on Earth.

 

[Patriot]

"If you wanted even more cooling density you could run the intake through a refrigeration coil (like an AC system). . . "

OK, I don't know as much about all this complicated stuff, but I know when something has the ring of truth. And I liked this idea so much I decided to experiment with my car. It went so much faster I decided to mount something like it on the FJR. I'm waiting for a reply to my PM to Patriot for mounting suggestions.

that's just friggin' ridiculous...anyway, the cooling system for the lil nuke plant takes up enough room now

besides, I thought I was good to go tossing the below into the air box before every ride

 

[Big-D]

It seems to me that just by adding something (regardless what it is) to the airbox exterior couldn't possibly provide any increase in power or torque, but rather separate you from your money. Cooling air as you mentioned is generally reserved for Turbo charged engines that require an inter-cooler. What you describe is not an inter cooler, nor would you need an inter-cooler for this application. What you describe as cooling the air and thus increasing horsepower is meant for a turbo charger that is forcing under very high pressure air into the combustion chamber. Running this compressed air (which generates much heat because anytime you apply pressure to anything, heat is generated) to help cool the air being forced into the engine, allowing a higher concentration of Oxygen particles into the engine allowing better and more intense combustion. The design of the airbox on the FJR is in no way allowing the air intake to become pressurized to the extent an inter-cooler would be needed and certainly by adding insulation will not help cool the air. This is because air under pressure is generating its own heat by being subjected to extreme pressure, not by outside sources such as air temperature. I [believe: I'm not sure] the ZX-14 and possibly the Hayabusa both use an air induction system to boost power, but even that will in no way will provide the pressure a turbo will provide. Prior to turbos, superchargers were used to do basically the same as what a turbo does, only a supercharger, although has no hesitation or lag, robs anywhere from 15-35% of the extra power being generated to operate the supercharger. Whereas a turbo is free power because it operates off of exhaust gases.