Interesting new Honda bike

[RadioHowie]

But the design and function is TOTALLY different from what most folks perceive as a "motorcycle". It's not really...it's a cleverly disguised, two wheeled automobile,

It's a scooter made to look like a motorcycle.

And scooters are two wheeled civics already.

Okay, GJ...you brought it up - scooters.

So, what exactly defines a motorized two-wheeled device as a "scooter" rather than a motorcycle? I asked this question here on the forum several years ago and never got a satisfactory answer.

I define a scooter as a monocoque cycle with the motor directly driving the rear wheel (like a Vespa) while a motorcycle is a motor-in-frame vehicle driving the rear wheel by shaft, chain or belt.

My definition clearly defines the NC700X/S as a motorcycle.

'splain yourself!!

 

[wfooshee]

A scooter has a floor for the feet rather than pegs, as well. You don't sit astride a scooter.

I've seen a few exceptions to that, but not recently. There was a Chinese bike at some of the rental places on the beach here that had those, tried to look like a tiny sportbike, but that scooter moter sticking out under the passenger's left foot just wasn't right somehow.

And of course there's the single-speed drive.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I'm gonna agree with Howie on this one. This is a motorcycle, not a scooter. I bet it would be very good at doing what a scooter does, but it is clearly not a scooter. The one I looked over today had a clutch lever and conventional transmission although I understand they are available with a very ahhh "scooteresque" transmission. I couldn't help but like the thing but as Howie says it is NOT an adventure bike.

But I curse the salesman who let me sit on that damn Super Tenere while I was in there today...

 

[RadioHowie]

Interesting to add, by my own definition, the NC700D Integra is NOT a scooter:

 

[Redfish Hunter]

It looks like it would be very popular with the crowd that stays on the far far end of Bourbon Street in New Orleans. It would be considered Alternative Lifestyle transportation.

 

[gixxerjasen]

To me, scooters typically have a big empty space in front of the rider and move the gas tank under the seat to afford a step through design. This has that, except they filled the empty space with storage to make it look and feel like a motorcycle. I'll admit, it's more motorcycle though than scooter, but it's kind of a mutt of a motorcycle. It's got a lot of this and that in there. In the end it's weird and strange and there'll be folks who'll hate em and those who'll love them.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Had to go looking for some pictures. While you are right, many scooters have the engine under the rider. Here's a shot of the Suzuki Bergman 400 which has the motor right there.

https://burgmanriders.com/wp-content/gallery/burgman-400-gallery/an400k3fe020naked.jpg

However, my your definition, is the Bergman 650 still a scooter? It's a maxi scooter for sure, but look at the engine placement.

https://burgmanusa.com/gallery/d/34263-2/650_naked_burgman.jpg

https://burgmanriders.com/wp-content/forumpicuploads/glenn_b/Naked650.jpg

Dang, I hope all these links are working...had to work with google to get them.

Anyway, on the Bergman 650 they broke the rules. The engine is laid forward but sits forward on the bike.

On the Honda the motor is laid forward...not as much as the bergman, but certainly more so than a lot of other motorcycles.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012-Honda-NC700X-07.jpg

In layout it's kind of similar to the bergman with the gas tank under the seat and the engine laid out in front of the rider. Like I said, it's not a total scooter, but certainly there are as many similarities to the maxi scooters out there as there are to motorcycles.

 

[wfooshee]

Burgmans don't shift. That makes them scooters.

NC700s (whatever variant) shift. That makes them motorcycles.

 

[PanAmerican]

 

[wfooshee]

Oh, well. Never rode a Vespa, didn't know they actually shifted. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[RadioHowie]

Oh, well. Never rode a Vespa, didn't know they actually shifted. Ignorance is bliss.

Yeah, the re-branded "Allstate" scooter I had 45 years ago had 3-on-the-tree just like the above video!

Good times...good times...

 

[xcsp]

Burgmans don't shift. That makes them scooters.

NC700s (whatever variant) shift. That makes them motorcycles.

Actually, the Burgman 650 does have paddle shifters, so it can manually be shifted, similar to Honda's CR-Z Hybrid car, with a CVT transmission.

From Suzuki's website:

shift indicator showing D for automatic operation, and 1 to 6 for manual operation.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Burgmans don't shift. That makes them scooters.

NC700s (whatever variant) shift. That makes them motorcycles.

Actually, the Burgman 650 does have paddle shifters, so it can manually be shifted, similar to Honda's CR-Z Hybrid car, with a CVT transmission.

From Suzuki's website:

shift indicator showing D for automatic operation, and 1 to 6 for manual operation.

Wait!!! That means my AE is a scooter!!!

And the bergman has one more gear. :angry:

 

[Zorlac]

Getting off my *** to fill up is totally unacceptable.

Like the lock nut valve adjusters but I'll keep my weestrom.

 

[wfooshee]

Locking a CVT is not gear selection, and locking it at a different point is not shifting.

 

[Fred W]

Wait!!! That means my AE is a scooter!!!

That's what we been tryin' to tell you AE guys all along.

But seriously, what does it really matter? Call it a scooter, or call it a motorcycle... whatever.

It's all just name calling and that's all in your head. It has two wheels and you ride it.

Would I rather have a Wee-strom? You bet. For one thing the aftermarket at this point favors the Wee by a lot.

The attraction to the NC700X, to a large extent, will be the price tag. With an msrp of $6999 vs $8299 (street prices on both are bound to be lower) there may be quite a few X buyers.

 

[Bungie]

I am guessing that pic was taken in Europe, not the states. That looks like it is based on the CB1000 platform, much like Kawasaki did the Ninja 1000 on their naked bike. It has an aftermarket exhaust, so it is not a showroom new bike. Just looked it up, that is a CB1000F Yet another cool bike we don't get here.

If Honda wanted to compete with the 'Stroms, why don't they bring over the TransAlp or the Veradero? I find those platforms very appealing. They are supposedly reacting to criticism that they can build a car that gets 40 MPG, but can't build a motorcycle that gets much better than that. This is supposed to be economical to buy, operate and maintain. I hope it works out.

Funny you mention both the CB1000F and the Varadero as they are both are ('were' in the case of the Varadero) available in Canada, and, I have test ridden both of them.

CB1000F: Nice bike, typical UJM. Nothing wrong with it, does everything exemplary. Absolutely the most boring motorcycle I've ridden EVER.

Varadero: Available for 3 years in Canada. Sold only through Powerhouse dealers. Was way overpriced. Didn't sell. Honda.ca is still clearing out leftovers and new units can be had for about $10,000 (stickered closer to $20,000 new). I've actually ridden two of them back to back. The first, a Honda demo unit, the second, the salesman's personal tricked out one. Nice bike, very actually. Very heavy though and it feels it at low speed. Lots, *LOTS* of chimmy-chonga's, the engine is a VTR1000 engine so that's to be expected. The bike responds well to aftermarket goodies. The tricked out one had a pair of 606's on it, Akrapovic's (it sounded AWESOME), wide pegs, laminar lip, Jessies. You know, full adventure kit. This one would easily make my short list had it not been discontinued and had not been a Powerhouse only unit (parts availability). Even at $10G's I'll pass on it for those reasons.

I also took a Tenere out on a 55 minute demo ride (55 minutes! Good JOB Yammie!). The S10 impressed me more and ranks higher than the 'dero in my books.

 

[Bounce]

Burgmans don't shift. That makes them scooters.

NC700s (whatever variant) shift. That makes them motorcycles.

750 Hondamatics didn't shift either. They're motorcycles.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Of course that's the problem these days, the blurring of the lines. It's really hard to classify some bikes as they just don't fit anywhere or are too much a molding of several different bikes. It sure does make bike shopping fun though!

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Some folks hear the word "scooter" and they get the attitude like, "Hey, that guy oughta get a real bike." :lol: Well, after 10 years of owning a Honda Silver Wing, I'm here to tell you that they are a great all around means of transportation whether you are touring or commuting. I have 4 friends who are Iron Butt Riders, one of whom just did his SS3000 2 weeks ago on a Silver Wing. The Silver Wing is bullet proof like the old Honda Helix. Another guy I know in Florida has close to 150,000 miles on his and makes annual treks to Alaska. For a 600cc V-Twin, they have remarkable power off the line and can tour all day on the big slab if that is what you enjoy doing. They are also very flickable as they have such a low center of gravity.

I have over $5,000 in farkles on my SW including touring windshield, tank bag to fill in the step through area, progressive front springs, Fournales air shocks on the rear, Givi top case, single-wheeled trailer, additional lighting, GPS, etc. A really fun little (or really not so little) bike. I see a reference here to the Burgman 650. Stay away. Transmission is much more complex and failures have been common with a $3000.00 bill to fix. The Burgman 400 is more simply designed and is much more reliable. The 400 also gets approximately 60 mpg on the highway and has a top speed of 93 mph. I know all of this because I own a Burgman 400 for my wife and I do all of the maintenance on the machine. The Silver Wing tops out at about 105 GPS mph and is very smooth. That is plenty fast with the 12 and 13 inch tires.

I was sitting at a traffic light one day on my Silver Wing and a young kid pulled up next to me in his Honda Civic with a loud can on the rear. He started revving his engine and I just smiled. The light changed and I crushed him as I advanced to the next light about 1/2 mile away. He won't be racing any old guys on scooters soon.

Really, once you have a 400cc scooter or higher, it really isn't the kind of bike people imagine when they think of a scooter. The lines really are blurred between motorcycle and scooter now.

My FJR has been my main mode of 2-wheeled transportation since 2009, but I still can't help taking out the SW for a ride. It's a real pleasure.

Jeff