Interesting Safety Data from Washington

[RiderCoach Lar]

Someone just emailed this link to me....

https://www.dol.wa.gov/about/reports/mototaskforce.pdf

It contains some current safety data recently compiled in the state of Washington. I know that cougar8000, VFR Rider and others who are involved in rider education will have specific interest in this. Not too many surprises, but a lot of hard data to back up what I HOPE most of you are already aware of as you ride.

Happy and SAFE New Year to all.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

This is interesting part good part bad, 1/2 single vec accident.

It seems the other half were ignored!

yes when younger I would have a drink and drive any of my cars, bikes etc., but those years are long gone.

I would have liked to see them focus on the I didn't see them issue, the other half. where it wasn't the rider that caused it.

 

[madmike2]

Hard data open to a lot of interpretation.

While the numbers of deaths and injuries have significantly increased, so have the number of motorcycles. Why don't they compare percentages to percentages rather than just look at the number of deaths, injuries., etc.

Not to lessen the value or necessity of what they are trying to do, but without boiling all the information down, it appears to me that the growth of injuries and deaths, by percentage, doesn't show an exponential increase compared to the amount of motorcycle registrations (if not a reduction, by percentage).

Should motorcycle riders obtain the proper license? Absolutely.

Should there be more motorcycle training. Sure.

Should there be increase motorcycle awaremess by the average driving populace? Heck, yeah.

But THESE solutions presented were for the "Single Vehicle Accidents". What are the percentages of 2 vehicle accidents and who was at fault? I was surprised by their finding that most motorcycle deaths were caused by "lane choice", which I interpret as running wide on a turn (including the dreaded lowside and attendant slide). THAT can be corrected by a given rider's right-wrist control.

Now I know why the motorcycle magazines are calling for a new "Hurt Report".

"Just the facts!". Sgt. Joe Friday, Badge 714

 

[sprint_st]

Just some observations from an old fart. Started riding in 1966 on a Honda 160 and got progressively larger bikes over 40 years of riding. Cut my teeth on two lane twisties in SE Ohio and WV.

Number 1: The current generation of bikes have engines, brakes, tires and suspension components that can put even the most experienced riders in situations beyond their capabilites.

Number 2: Traffic densities are getting worse every year.

Number 3: Just because you have the money to buy a bike doesn't mean you have the capability or experience to explore the limits of the bike's capabilities.

Number 4: It takes a lot more than an MSF course to make a good rider. It takes time and lots of miles.

Number 5: As you get older, you lose the dumb luck of youth and also the vision and reflexes too.

The National Bureau of Standards model for the increase in fatalities among bikers is to take a guy in his forties or fifties who didn't have a lot of cash or time when he was young to buy a bike, but saw a lot of bike flicks. Add a good paying job and a desire to be young again or a desire to be a "bad ass" at least for the week end. Then take away the time necessary to learn how to ride correctly or gain experiene. Mix that in with a pack of riding buddies whose primary objective is to visit ever bar south of the Canadian border. Last but not least put them in a culture where people talk about dragging pegs, chicken stripes, or how open pipes save lives or the front brakes are dangerous. Viola' you have accidents just waiting to happen.

Motorcyles are NOT dangerous, the riders are what is dangerous.

 

[twowheelnut]

Someone wanna Cliff Note that and repost? Thanks!

 

[Ignacio]

Just some observations from an old fart. ........
The National Bureau of Standards model for the increase in fatalities .......

I can already see this thread going awry...and it shouldn't. There's some interesting data in that report.

This thread is about the Washington State Report. You want to talk about another data source, please go start another thread. Please stay on topic.

And, preferably responses from folks that actually read the report first would be ideal.

While the numbers of deaths and injuries have significantly increased, so have the number of motorcycles. Why don't they compare percentages to percentages rather than just look at the number of deaths, injuries., etc.

Exactly!

One comparison would be fatalities or traumas compared to motorcycle registrations over time.

1997 to 2004 are common between those two data sets. The fatalities is extremely variable with 41 fatalities in 1996 and 28 in 1997 so harder to compare year to year without being a math wizard. But, comparing trauma yields something I think is more telling.

Try this comparison:

They certainly all trend up, but the registrations clearly don't keep up with traumas or fatalities. ....and I had thought they would. Some other variable there.

 

[juniorfjr]

Well, I am over 50, don't ride if I have had a drink, and I've ridden for quite a while. Statistically, if you remove those variables, then the odds go up a great deal. It's the young, stupid, new riders that are most likely to die or be injured. Still gotta be careful, though. jr.

 

[cougar8000]

Larry,

Thank you for the link.

Few points that we all can probably have some kind of influence on changing.

* A third of fatalities were motorcyclists who did not have a valid motorcycle endorsement. -- That is a HUGE number of people with out license. How can we change it? Talk to friends who are about or already riding with out one. Insist on them taking training. Parents. Where the hell are you looking at? I have 16-19+ year old show up in the class and during the intro section they tell us that they have Bussa, R1 and such as their first bikes. Some can't afford the class. CA, WI and others charge upward 400 for an MSF class. Be a good friend and make a donation to those who can't afford the class. make it an early Birthday present.

* The most common contributing factors to motorcycle fatalities, based on law enforcement scene reports, are lane error, speeding, alcohol and inattention. -- What ever was said above plus this. When you are out drinking DO NOT let your friends get on a bike. As I tell in the class:"It is easier to explain the pump on the forehead, from 2x4, next morning then to go to funeral. Class, repeat after me: PAY ATTENTION, PAY ATTENTION, PAY ATTENTION. Good, now don't forget.

* A significant majority of motorcycle fatalities occur in dry conditions, in daylight hours, in the spring and summer. -- Hmm, all those nice weather week end warriors coming out. No surprise there.

* Fatalities for riders between the ages of 41 and 60 have increased two-and-a half times over the last five years, while the population of this age group has increased slightly over 10% for the same period. Annual fatalities for riders between the ages of 21 and 40 have varied during this time period, while the population cohort of ages 21-40 has actually declined slightly. -- No surprise there either. Many of 40+ are either two damn proud to admit that they need a refresh. hat ever they rode in their 20th is not the same and their knowledge is not there either.

* In 2004, 86% of the fatalities had not taken the state’s training course. -- WOW. that makes no sense. Starting in August we have a hard time getting 12 people to show up for class.

* The Department of Licensing should conduct a top-to-bottom assessment of the rider training curriculum and revise as necessary, with the presumptive course being a shift to the safety training developed over three years by the State of Oregon. The Oregon program has an ability to adapt to local riding circumstances and data based causation factors, which the Washington program does not currently have: Washington is bound by the requirements of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, which are more difficult to adjust. The costs of instructional materials (workbooks, etc.) for the Oregon program are about half the cost of instructional materials for the current Washington program. -- State of Oregon is now been sued by MSF for using part of their material. instead of working together on making it better we are now introducing politics into motorcycling training world.

* The field training should allow the option of riders using their own bikes in the Basic Riders Course.-- Not sure I would agree there. that is what an advanced class is for. the last thing I need is a combo of newbs on 250 and another newb on his Bussa.

My head is spinning already. I think I should stop here. Great report. People need more training. dealers that sell bikes to un-licensed riders should loose their licenses. we need license system like they have on the other side of the pond, bond in our economy it will not get approved.

If each one of us talks to at least few of those that end up on the report, we might have less people on this report due to someone actually might listen. Ok. I am off my soap box.

 

[Grumpy]

The typical FARS data is normalized a number of different ways, none of which were used in this "study". Personally, I'd love to see it normalized by number of miles traveled as is done for automobile fatilities.

Single vehicle involvement being 1/2 the accidents is pretty close to the same as automobiles.

Not a very well done study. Looks like they started with "the answer" and worked back to the necessary supposting technical details!

jim

 

[Heffalump]

The only credible way to compare fatalities from year to year is to compare fatalities per million miles driven, (although now I think they use per 100 million miles). This takes into account things like an increase in riding because of exceptional weather etc. even if there is no increase in registrations.

Using only the total number of fatalities is usually done to hide the fact that they don't have a good point. The IIHS does this constantly.

I am very much in favor of reducing accidents but the only way to do that effectively is to be completely honest about the problem. This is why we need a new Hurt report..

 

[Ignacio]

If each one of us talks to at least few of those that end up on the report, we might have less people on this report due to someone actually might listen. Ok. I am off my soap box.

Not sure I agree with all your recomendations, but glad others are reading it.

I think their observation that making training more available makes sense. Having to schedule something 90 days+ out loses a lot of folks along the way. Interesting observation that they recommend a program more like Oregon and the MSF stuff is expensive.

Having taken the Advanced course several years ago, I happen to get in lucily three weeks after I inquired and was appreciative of the instructor having a base class plus some stuff that was more pertinent to local riding.

 

[cougar8000]

Not sure I agree with all your recommendations, but glad others are reading it.

I am always open for a new point of view and I will try to put more "IMHO" in my text in the future

 

[Ignacio]

Not sure I agree with all your recommendations, but glad others are reading it.

I am always open for a new point of view and I will try to put more "IMHO" in my text in the future

Sorry. That was actually meant to be a big complement

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Thought that might strike a nerve, cougar. As you may have guessed, I agree with your OPINIONS (especially the unwritten opinion of the MSF's recent move :blink: ). I also agree that all forum members, whether involved in formal motorcycle training or not, can have a positive influence on reducing these kinds of statistics.

Yes, you can play with the statistics and interpret them any way you want, but the bottom line is that far too many people are still being injured or killed every year and there's SO much that can be done to reduce those numbers, not the least of which is to provide affordable comprehensive instruction.

Whatever you do, don't get off your soapbox. It's statistics like these that make it necessary to STAY on it. It's certainly a major reason why we give up so much of our time and spend so many of our weekends on a range and in a classroom instead of out riding.

Ignorance is not bliss. When it comes to riding, whether you're a new rider or the most experienced....or just a driver and not a rider at all...... ignorance kills.

 

[cougar8000]

Yes, you can play with the statistics and interpret them any way you want, but the bottom line is that far too many people are still being injured or killed every year and there's SO much that can be done to reduce those numbers, not the least of which is to provide affordable comprehensive instruction.

That is a good reply to some of the post here that are too concerned on how the stats were collected then on how to eliminate them. IMHO

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

That is a good reply to some of the post here that are too concerned on how the stats were collected then on how to illuminate them. IMHO

You mean eliminate them. According to the statistics, too many are already lit up when they ride. That's why they're dying!

By the way, who are you trying to kid? Your opinion is anything but humble

 

[cougar8000]

That is a good reply to some of the post here that are too concerned on how the stats were collected then on how to illuminate them. IMHO

You mean eliminate them. According to the statistics, too many are already lit up when they ride. That's why they're dying!

By the way, who are you trying to kid? Your opinion is anything but humble

You got me. I guess I learned how to spell but forgot the meaning :yahoo:

 

[Wilson]

What is the helmet law in Washington?

 

[Cdogman]

The first thing that jumps out at me is the conclusion.

snip "it appears that the most important factors are within the control of the rider. Efforts to reduce fatalaties and serious injuries should focus on rider skills and behavior" snip

I find this to be so obvious that it is probably going to be overlooked.

I am a new rider (bout a year and a half) and only about 25k miles. I have had close calls with cagers doing somthing stupid, no doubt, BUT most of my ass puckers have come from my own judgments being in error or my lacking in skill as I get better. My panic responses are not the same as they were last year. I am a better rider and thus safer to be around now than last year to.

My skill level is increasing but not just from riding at all. I take courses, I read EVERYTHING I can get my hands on and practice it purposfully while riding. I think rider training is paramount. I also think it is expensive for the average person. Not everyone can afford 3 bills for a days training let alone a "school"

Perhaps the easiest way to reduce fatalaties would be to make training affordable to the average person with an avergae income. The MSF BRC and ERC are great courses and IMHO should be mandatory to getting a license (well the BRC anyway) The cost of courses like "Total Control" could be mitigated through the reduced cost to the public having to deal with motorcycle accidents.

As far as the half that involved two vehicles, I would be curious too but if I can cut my risk in half by concentrating on what I can effect I am perhaps best served paying attention to that

Anyway, I am HUGE into learning about my sport and passion. I cannot imagine why someone whould not want to be good at this considering the risk involved.

OK, I will get off my soapbox, FNG signing off