Is Heart pacemaker compatible w/magnetic tank bag?

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fjrboomer

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I am considering getting a tank bag but I have a heart pacemaker. I cannot go through the magnetic devices at airports and must be hand searched. I do not know the strength of the magnets in tank bags but I do on occasion lean over the tank while riding. I would not want to change the mode my pacemaker is in while flying along the highway. I do use a magnet when doing telephone check ups on the pacemaker but the tech always confirms that it has returned to the proper mode before we hang up.

Therefore my question is does anyone have any experience or knowledge as to the possible affects of the magnets in the tank bag on a pacemaker if you get them too close to your pacemaker?

This is my first attempt at initiating a thread and I hope I have placed it in the proper catagory. If not I guess everyone can pile on next Friday or possibly sooner.

 
Good question boomer.

anybody? Old Micheal?, MM2?, wolfhound? Any old fuks out here??

I'd call my cardiologist but it's late an I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be impressed.

:jester:

BTW dog piles ain't jus for Fridays anymore. ;)

 
don't tuck in when flying yer FJR and don't hug yer bag when moving it around....

Seriously, I don't know about pacemakers but I know a little about magnets. Did the pacemaker come with a warning about how much gauss at what distance was dangerous? If not then it would be a guess at best.

 
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The magnets are pretty strong as magnets go. Unless your Dr. says OK (which I would be really surprised if he or she said yes) I wouldn't chance it. The last thing you need is for the ol'e ticker to skip a couple beats while you're leaning in through some twisties. :blink: Just my $.02

 
To turn off a pacemaker if it is defective or whatever, they use a large magnet about 2 inches high and 4 inches across, that looks like a blue doughnut. They set it right on your chest over the pacemaker. The tank magnets are pretty powerful , I would not chance it, too many times you could lean on to the bag pretty hard.

 
Unless your Dr. says OK (which I would be really surprised if he or she said yes) I wouldn't chance it. The last thing you need is for the ol'e ticker to skip a couple beats while you're leaning in through some twisties. :blink: Just my $.02
Most Docs hate bikes. Donor vehicles I think they call 'em.

As far as skipped beats.... just cough and lean till ya freak. That'll get it going again :)

BTDT

:jester:

 
Hmmm, let's see here - this is an important issue, life or death......hmmmmm....can't decide.....do I call a doctor or ask a bunch of strangers on the FJR forum??? Decisions, decisions.......

Sorry - couldn't resist :lol:

 
Hey Boomer,

I have a Pacer/defib, a BiVICD actually and I got it a month before my feejer arrived in 04. I have a magnetic tank bag thats been in use for 4 years...no problem..I dont hug the damn tank mind ya but it has not caused me one bit of trouble...and I've had 9 heart attacks and 5 bypases at 42 so I know a little about trouble. My problem is no insurance and my battery is runnin low....do cardiologist wheelie? The tank bag should be fine...my nuts tingle around microwaves though :dribble: !!! Ride on Brother...We're all a heartbeat away anyway !!! :clapping:

Blessings,

Bobby

 
You is da man Bobby! 9 heart attacks and a quad by 42 ? fuk I don't feel so bad all of a sudden. I've but three attacks and only... a.. oh shit, I guess a quad too. But I'm months away from fidy....

The old fukers here thank ya.

:jester:

 
fjrboomer,

I work for a pacemaker/defibrillator manufacturer, and I would be happy to shed some clarity on the topic. Please keep in mind that you should always follow the direction of your physician. I can tell you how these devices work, but ultimately your doc is responsible for your care, and you are responsible for compliance.

All modern pacemakers operate on a beat to beat basis (commonlycalled "demand"). This means that they have an internal countdown clock (which is programmable) and will deliver a small electric current to your heart to induce a contraction should it not do so on its own by the programmed time delay. If your heart is beating faster than the programmed rate, it will stand by (or more technically accurate, inhibit) and start the countdown again.

Pacemakers by all manufacturers (Boston Scientific (Guidant), Medtronic, St. Jude Medical, ELA, Biotronik) will respond to magnetic flux by changing their rate and mode. This is called a magnet response. The rate & mode is manufacturer and model dependent, and is likely a rate that indicates battery status (for example 100 beats per minute with a good battery, 85 with one that needs replacement). That is one of the things that is identified on your trans-telephonic phone check. The mode is also likely asynchronous, meaning the pacemaker will deliver pacing stimuli independent of your heart's own activity. Therefore, in the presence of a magnet, your rate could be faster and your heart could beat somewhat erratically (pacemaker and intrinsic beats occuring at almost the same time).

Generally speaking, this rarely poses a safety risk, and the rate & mode reverts to normal as soon as the magnet is removed. It would be extremely unlikely that exposure to the magnet would cause your pacemaker to stop working or your heart rate to slow or stop causing you lightheadedness, etc., and you may not even feel anything. Do you notice anything when you put the magnet over your device for your trans-telephonic checks?

Pacemakers and ICDs (defibrillators) need a very strong magnet, placed within a few centimeters of the device in order for it to trigger its magnet response. Therefore, unless the tankbag's magnets are held within a few inches of your chest, it should not trigger. In the normal use of a tankbag, I sincerely believe that you should be OK. Sit up normally and do not lean over it. Given that, and the unliklihood of experiencing any ill effects if the magnet response were tripped, the safety of using a tankbag is relatively high. If you are really concerned, use a strap-down type.

Some other comments: ICDs (defibrillators) and Bi-V or CRT-D defibrillators do not have the same magnet response that pacemakers do. In the presence of a magnet, they will not deliver shock therapy as they normally would, but their pacing rate and mode remain unchanged. Also, a pacemaker or ICD patient can walk through the metal detector at the airport without concern. You may set off the alarm (especially ICDs), but it will not cause any ill effects if you walk through normally. Things to avoid are close proximity to anything that emits electromagnetic interference (motors, etc.). As a rule of thumb, if it has a fat power cord hanging out of it, keep it 12 inches or more away from your chest. Anti-pilfering antennas (security sensors) near the doors of retail stores should be avoided by walking through them normally as well.

By all means, if anyone has any questions or concerns on this topic, you can respond here or send me a PM. I will try to help as best I can.

-BD

 
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Additionally, there has been some information posted that credit cards have NOT been affected by the tank bag magnets, possibly because of the padding in the bottom of the bags. That might be good news for you.

As mentioned above, there is always the Bagster option: https://www.bagster.com

 
Hey BD,

Thanks for the great explaination and illumination on our Borg realities ! My doctor care left with my insurance coverage and I'm at the mercy of the county system now. I can tell ya when I was still an engineer at TI before I had my last attack, I would feel strange in the presence of some of the equipment used in semiconductor manufacturing such as plasma diffusion etc. I mentioned this to manangement and much to my surprise I found out I was the first ICD guinea pig and the good folks at guidant refused to comment and my EP doc wouldnt stick his neck out either....the company nurse...Ratchett was her name, also refused comment. My last heart attack sealed my fate to the land of SS disability and now I eat much better, fish-eating vegan and sleep 12 hours a day. The money sucks but life is very good indeed. I am thankful to folks like you who work in industries that build stuff to help people live better more normal lives. Yeah I know there's the profit thang, its America and you should feel good about your work ! Me and my FJR wheelie do appreciate it !

Hey Boomer, wanna start a Borg Riders addition to the forum :clapping: ? Take good care !

Blessed and ticking,

Bobby

 
Bobby,

Defibrillators like yours (sounds like you have a Guidant model - let's just say that's my favorite brand ;) ) are more sensitive to EMI than pacemakers are. They have a "variable" sensitivity level in order to see very fine ventricular fibrillation waves. Pacemakers are not looking for these signals, and are generally less sensitive to EMI. When either device senses EMI, they could assume the signal is coming from the heart's intrinsic activity. A pacemaker will not pace - and if the patient's own heart rate is slow, they could feel lighteaded or faint. A defibrillator will also not pace, (and that patient could be at risk of similar symptoms), and in addition, a defibrillator may charge and deliver a shock. This is not something you want if your heart is beating normally and you are wide awake. Most devices have algorithms to disseminate noise and ignore it, but they do not always work perfectly.

The problem with EMI is it is difficult to accurately classify. This is probably why neither your doctor nor a technician could answer your questions as to the interaction of the test equipment. The only way to really find out if a particular environment is problematic is to interrogate the device either during or immediately after the exposure. Manufacturers try very hard to determine what can cause interference, but a lab like the one you worked in is impossible to qualify. Usually the answer in such cases is "avoid it".

WRT your insurance issue - this is America and everybody can find care with the right effort. If you cannot afford the device replacement, ask your hospital if they support an indigent care program. In that circumstance, if the hospital and doctor agree to donate their services, the manufacturer can donate the device. There are no guarantees, and I am really not sure how to qualify for such a program, but I do know it is possible.

-BD

 
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I appreciate all the input and especially BD's as he appears to have very good knowledge on the subject. I will check into the Bagster. I believe when in doubt, don't. I will check out the Bagster. Again, thanks for everyone's help. Remember to keep the rubber side down.

 
Wow Brundog, I thought I'd have some input to give as a veteran ED/Trauma RN, but you topped my game. Props for bringing what can be very technical healthcare advice into strong lay terminology.

 
Thanks again BD !

I have a Guidant H179 and this puppy has been rock solid so far. I agree with ya on the indigent care..I'm currently looking into this as I'm 3 years overdue for a check-up :blink: . And as an engineer in a past life( wave propogation and materials science) I can tell ya for sure that big EMF is a big no-no for these devices. TI wanted to force me to resign but an MI and EF of 14 stopped all of this. On a side note, would you have ever believed that you would use your vast store of specific medical knowledge on a model dedicated motorcycle forum ? Damn I'm glad to be so blessed !

And Busta---5 is quintuple..gotcha beat my zipper club brudda :rolleyes: Honestly I'm just glad we're still on the road, all of us !

Bobby

 
As MM2 mentioned, any modern, high quality mag-bag will have some form of shielding on the bottom. Usually the bag bottom is covered with a 80% nickel alloy magnetic shielding foil (MuMetal). This foil is typically .004 to .010" thick and can be cut with scissors. This is enough shielding to prevent the bag's magnet from wiping out the magnetic stripe on credit cards, as well as protecting cassette type tapes and electronic devices.

If you have any concern about an implanted medical device, confirm that your tank bag is shielded and you should be fine. If you pull the bag off your tank please refrain from throwing the bag over your shoulder so that the bottom could rest against the area of your implant :ermm:

 
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