It It Worth It To "Fight" a Ticket?

[SacramentoMike]

Yeh, no shit. But still, I got some good thoughtful replies and hopefully some good advice. Pretty good, since I was kind of expecting a serious flaming. Thanks to all you who wrote.

 

[Big-D]

If you appear in court and plead "Not Guilty", you will have a chance to state your case. You are entitled to a jury of your peers. When you are asked what type of trail you want, tell them you want a trail by jury, tell them you want 6 jurors, not 3. Tell the court you intend to subpoena the officer, the records for the device used to capture your speed and the training officer for the device and his superior officer. The more subpoenas you list, the more likely you'll win by default.

Because the courts are so tied up in California and the state is pretty much broke, there is a good chance the DA will offer you a chance to accept a lessor charge, usually a non-moving violation. They issue tickets to raise money, so they don't like to spend a bunch of money they don't have. Take it and run. If it goes to court, if any of the persons you subpoena don't show up, you win. The judge will have no choice but to throw it out.

 

[Last Chance]

Mike,

I haven't read all the thread so what I'm saying might be redundant.

First, there is always a chance if you choose to go to court the officer might not show up. However, if your court is over by the coast it would be time consuming to go. Also, you might have to go twice, once for your "arraignment" and again for your "trial".

Second, after pleading not guilty, I was granted an audience by a nice young lady assistant DA babe. She was very understanding of my "situation" but said the law didn't grant any leeway because of "circumstances".

Finally, I timed my court date/time to coincide with what I calculated would be the middle of the officer's night. I was ticketed at 0500 and set the court date as far out as I could and for the afternoon session. I was hoping he would be more inclined to sleep in.

There was also another factor....I let the officer know my son is a LEO (federal) and pleaded for mercy at the time of the original citation. I don't know if this was a factor...but he wrote the ticket for 90 in a 65 rather than the 110 to 115 he "estimated" my speed.. (He should know as he was the road rage driver I was running away from! All very funny....Now.)

At any rate he failed to show up for court and the case was dismissed. I was surprised how many officers failed to show up. At least 30-40%. It was my LUCKY day and one I don't want to repeat... I don't think I would be so lucky next time...

I've completely revamped my 0 dark thirty commute strategy since then. I also make darn sure I know what every vehicle is around me before I "twist the wrist". I also like to have MM2 up in front so he will get the ticket.

Good luck and slow down!

LC

 

[HotRodZilla]

If you appear in court and plead "Not Guilty", you will have a chance to state your case. You are entitled to a jury of your peers. When you are asked what type of trail you want, tell them you want a trail by jury, tell them you want 6 jurors, not 3. Tell the court you intend to subpoena the officer, the records for the device used to capture your speed and the training officer for the device and his superior officer. The more subpoenas you list, the more likely you'll win by default.Because the courts are so tied up in California and the state is pretty much broke, there is a good chance the DA will offer you a chance to accept a lessor charge, usually a non-moving violation. They issue tickets to raise money, so they don't like to spend a bunch of money they don't have. Take it and run. If it goes to court, if any of the persons you subpoena don't show up, you win. The judge will have no choice but to throw it out.

SM, Although this sounds good in theory, be careful doing it. For something like a homicide trial, subpoenas like that might fly, but usually when you go that far for a speeding ticket all it does is piss the court off, because they know what you are up to, and they don't have to honor all those subpoenas. They are considered "unreasonable" for the type of case. I have had people subpoena EVERY citation I ever wrote in the same kind of ploy. It never works because...it is not "reasonable". Again though, I am not in CA, so ask around. If it has worked for others there, you might wanna try.

 

[Ignacio]

And this thread renews the need for somebody of specific knowledge to write-up the CA FAQ on this subject. Although there are some likely true nuggets about the Golden State there seems to be some less-than-accurate information as well.

We've had some great authors already tackle OR, NV, and I threw in my experience with WA. Those that think they can provide similarly comprehensive and accurate information for their own state as have been done here.....PM me. A law degree is not a requirement...although actual court experience on contested tickets is extremely helpful.

 

[flying junior]

I think if I were in your particular pickle I'd go down to my home town court house and sit through a session of traffic court, just so get a feel for what happens, who wins, who loses. It could be a valuable education in preparing your own course of action. In your case, Sacramento and Monterey courts are probably quite similar.

Good luck on this.

 

[EODSarge]

SM, Although this sounds good in theory, be careful doing it. For something like a homicide trial, subpoenas like that might fly, but usually when you go that far for a speeding ticket all it does is piss the court off, because they know what you are up to, and they don't have to honor all those subpoenas. They are considered "unreasonable" for the type of case. I have had people subpoena EVERY citation I ever wrote in the same kind of ploy. It never works because...it is not "reasonable". Again though, I am not in CA, so ask around. If it has worked for others there, you might wanna try.

Gunny on that... I've known a lot of state court and superior court judges who frown on traffic violations tieing up jury trial time... if the defendant is found guilty, they'll sentence the maximum. :blink:

As others have said, your only chances in a trial are that the officer doesn't show (not likely to happen where I work; it could mean suspensions without pay for missing court) or that he's a lazy radar/laser operator and doesn't keep his paperwork and testimony in order. If he's part of a traffic unit, that's not likely.

 

[RsvlFeej]

SacMike,

Exskibum (where has Rich been, lately?) has had some success fighting Cali tickets. I was looking for a longer post of his that detailed the last couple, but couldn't find it as I'm short on search time right now. I do remember thinking I needed to keep it in mind for any future LEO encounter I might have. Here's the closest I could get.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...8&hl=ticket

Good luck,

RsvlFeej

 

[FJR_pig]

I think if I were in your particular pickle I'd go down to my home town court house and sit through a session of traffic court, just so get a feel for what happens, who wins, who loses. It could be a valuable education in preparing your own course of action.

I think that is the best suggestion I've seen on this forum in 2 1/2 years for questions on what to do on traffic citations. :good:

 

[SacramentoMike]

That Flying Junior guy, he's WAY smarter than he looks.

 

[OldMotor]

SacramentoMike,

The officer gave you a break up front by issuing the citation for 75 mph instead of the 83 he had you at. At 81 mph the fines jump significantly in Ca. This would be assuming that you were issued a citation for 22349(a) V.C. max. speed limit 65 mph.

I'm not clear if it was lidar or radar used to obtain your speed (apart from the visual estimation used first, which by itself can be enough to find you guilty depending upon the judge), but in either case the equipment has to be send to a lab. to be checked for accuracy every 36 months. CHP tries to do this every 30 months to stay well within the 36 month requirement. Chances are, this will be a dead end for you. As far as the officer filling out the paperwork properly, again this was most likely done properly, but you never know.

As far as the reason you used to speed up, that is just an admission of guilt and most judges will tell you that you most likely you should have slowed down. In Ca. you are not entitled to a jury trial for an infraction, period. Do not ask as the judge will get annoyed with you for not researching this.

If I was contesting a citation issued by the CHP, this is what I would do:

1) As written earlier, go down to the Carol Miller Justice Center in Sacramento and sit through some traffic cases to see what occurrs. It will be a little different then Monterey County, but it will follow the same guidelines. Just so you know, Sac. traffic court is known for being liberal, while Monterey Court tends to have more conservative judges.

2) Then, if you still want to fight the citation, I would do a trial by declaration (TBD) through the Monterey Court. This is where you write down your defense and the officer will write down his version of what occurred. Some officers do not bother filling these out. If he does not return it to the court by the date set you will win. If he does return it (most do) then you will most likely lose.

3) If you lose #2, then ask for a trial where both of you show up and present your sides of what occurred. If you want an attorney, I would contact one at this time. If you go it alone, then I would do a discovery motion and obtain the notes the officer wrote down on the back of his copy, records of the lidar or radar unit used and the certificate of when the unit was sent to the lab.

4) Work up a sound defense and present your case to the judge. If you show up with no defense, the jusde will be annoyed with you.

Just remember, that even after doing all of this, most likely you will lose. What you are hoping for is that the officerdoes not do the TBD, does not show up to court or you can find a problem with the paperwork.

Hope this helps a little.