It's NOT preload!

[Fred W]

Sorry to say, Jeff, that turning in the adjusters on the top of the fork mechanically has the exact same effect as adding more spacer length on the top of the spring.

When the fork is normally weighted, either one will vary the front ride height by the amount it is changed because the spring will always compress to the same length to support a given load.

When the fork is unweighted the total length of the fork will appear to change as you vary preload because there is a spring on the cartridge that acts as a buffer to soften top-outs. That top-out spring will compress more at full extension when you increase preload (either by increasing the spacer length or by screwing in the adjuster) which fools people into thinking that the ride height isn't changing as much as it actually is. This top out spring causes a lot of confusion.

If you measure the difference of the fork length weighted and unweighted (like with a ty-wrap) you'll see that effect. If you measure the height of some part of the bike's front end to the ground you'll see the actual change in ride height.

Consider the spacer as the course preload adjustment and the adjuster on the top as the fine adjustment. Mechanically they do the same thing.

 

[Klunkshift]

And the best answer award goes to ... Fred. Indeed, mechanically the spacer and the adjuster perform the same function.

A common mistake when respringing with aftermarket - longer - springs is the failure to adjust the spacer to account for the longer spring and completely invalidate the fine adjustment provided by the preload adjuster available at the top of the forks.

 

[Shane]

The whole reason that the 17mm lined (inner) portion of the fork cap is jamb-nutted to the internal cartridge top stem is so that the spring/cartridge assembly length can be manipulated up or down (longer or shorter) relative to any other part of the fork assembly.

That's why you hold that part still with a wrench to un-jamb it for complete dis-assembly, and not the outer nut on the cap.

That 17mm nut lined portion of the fork cap is threaded into the outer body of the fork cap--you know, the part that has the big o-ring and keeps the oil from splashing out the top when you do stoppies.

So yeah, spring pre-load it is.

All the best,

Shane

 

[Lowcountry Joe]

I think my water broke.

 

[5w30]

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.

You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

 

[Uncle Hud]

<poorly written post, poorly though out, and posted without thinking it through. apologies to you that have wasted 30 seconds reading it.>

 

[wheatonFJR]

I think my water broke.

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.
You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

Well, I think Joe was just being funny...

 

[Old Guy]

I think my water broke.

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.
You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

Well, I think Joe was just being funny...

Ah.being funny on purpose?

 

[Fred W]

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.
You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

And now we see the new guy with 2 posts is here to save us from this dangerous misinformation?

Puh-lease.

You have gone out of your way to contradict and aggravate one of our most valued long term members in only your second post on the forum (and your first post must have been your obligatory "hello" post to gain entry.) Why would anyone do that unless their entire purpose for being here was to stir up some shit? If that is your intent then save your typing and get lost. The OP has helped many FJR owners with suspension tuning over the years, both through his posts here and on other forums, and in person.

As for the supposed "misinformation" in the first post, it is more about semantics than anything actually important to how the bike operates or is adjusted. It doesn't actually matter if you agree with the initial premise or not.

For the record, 5W30 is not recommended for use anywhere on any FJR1300, perhaps it is not recommended on its forum either?

 

[Blind Squirrel]

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.
You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

And now we see the new guy with 2 posts is here to save us from this dangerous misinformation?

Puh-lease.

You have gone out of your way to contradict and aggravate one of our most valued long term members in only your second post on the forum (and your first post must have been your obligatory "hello" post to gain entry.) Why would anyone do that unless their entire purpose for being here was to stir up some shit? If that is your intent then save your typing and get lost. The OP has helped many FJR owners with suspension tuning over the years, both through his posts here and on other forums, and in person.

As for the supposed "misinformation" in the first post, it is more about semantics than anything actually important to how the bike operates or is adjusted. It doesn't actually matter if you agree with the initial premise or not.

For the record, 5W30 is not recommended for use anywhere on any FJR1300, perhaps it is not recommended on its forum either?

I don't understand how post count is supposed to in some way equate to knowledge. It is a common theme in many threads. This guy could be an engineer or a Yamaha mechanic. We don't know until he actually posts something specific/technical on the subject. IMO posts like the above do not serve this community in any positive aspect. Give the person a chance to explain what they are talking about before you summarily shut them down.

 

[lnewlf]

still scratchin' nutzz on this, but I'm with Fred on this [preload] thing... have to pay more attention next time I take them apart to flush

 

[HotRodZilla]

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.

You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

And now we see the new guy with 2 posts is here to save us from this dangerous misinformation?

Puh-lease.

You have gone out of your way to contradict and aggravate one of our most valued long term members in only your second post on the forum (and your first post must have been your obligatory "hello" post to gain entry.) Why would anyone do that unless their entire purpose for being here was to stir up some shit? If that is your intent then save your typing and get lost. The OP has helped many FJR owners with suspension tuning over the years, both through his posts here and on other forums, and in person.

As for the supposed "misinformation" in the first post, it is more about semantics than anything actually important to how the bike operates or is adjusted. It doesn't actually matter if you agree with the initial premise or not.

For the record, 5W30 is not recommended for use anywhere on any FJR1300, perhaps it is not recommended on its forum either?

I don't understand how post count is supposed to in some way equate to knowledge. It is a common theme in many threads. This guy could be an engineer or a Yamaha mechanic. We don't know until he actually posts something specific/technical on the subject. IMO posts like the above do not serve this community in any positive aspect. Give the person a chance to explain what they are talking about before you summarily shut them down.

Good point, BUT, anyone who posts, "Everything you just said is wrong" without explaining what exactly was wrong is full of crap. Hell, I could find 10,000 threads and tell every person in them they areally wrong and giving out misinformation, but I better sure as Hell have the correct information to go along with my accusations.

I actually kept quiet, waiting for him to post up what he believes is "correct." We both know he hasn't done that yet, which like Fred, makes my TROLL meter ping.

 

[wheatonFJR]

"PING!"

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Is this really that damned important? Really? Winter must be especially hard on you fellows this year.

I am 100% certain that nothing in this thread will have any effect on my next ride. Whether I call it Pre-load, Butt-load, spring tension, ride height, or Santa Clause, what damn difference does it make?

I will ride my FJR to work in an hour. I know that this will not change my happiness, my safety, or my comfort. Getting upset over something like this is just... You guys need a ride.

 

[Old Guy]

Nope. Not that important. I'm with Fred and Zilla, though, that the post from 5w30 was needlessly confrontational. Read other posts in this thread and you'll see some rational, well-thought-out responses* in disagreement with the OP. They'd kept it a conversation; 5w30 made it a confrontation. No need.

* Well, there was my previous attempt at humor that fell flat, but ..........

 

[Fred W]

This is a dangerous post. It is entirely wrong. No ifs ands or buts, this is just complete misinformation.
You have gone out of your way to say the exact opposite of what is true.

And now we see the new guy with 2 posts is here to save us from this dangerous misinformation?

Puh-lease.

You have gone out of your way to contradict and aggravate one of our most valued long term members in only your second post on the forum (and your first post must have been your obligatory "hello" post to gain entry.) Why would anyone do that unless their entire purpose for being here was to stir up some shit? If that is your intent then save your typing and get lost. The OP has helped many FJR owners with suspension tuning over the years, both through his posts here and on other forums, and in person.

As for the supposed "misinformation" in the first post, it is more about semantics than anything actually important to how the bike operates or is adjusted. It doesn't actually matter if you agree with the initial premise or not.

For the record, 5W30 is not recommended for use anywhere on any FJR1300, perhaps it is not recommended on its forum either?

I don't understand how post count is supposed to in some way equate to knowledge. It is a common theme in many threads. This guy could be an engineer or a Yamaha mechanic. We don't know until he actually posts something specific/technical on the subject. IMO posts like the above do not serve this community in any positive aspect. Give the person a chance to explain what they are talking about before you summarily shut them down.

Post count does not validate or invalidate a contribution. But, when a brand new member makes an inflammatory post such as this guy did on his very first post (besides the obligatory one) it completely undermines his credibility.

And now you say to "give him a chance" to explain himself? He already had a chance when he posted his accusations.

Is this really that damned important? Really? Winter must be especially hard on you fellows this year.
I am 100% certain that nothing in this thread will have any effect on my next ride. Whether I call it Pre-load, Butt-load, spring tension, ride height, or Santa Clause, what damn difference does it make?

I will ride my FJR to work in an hour. I know that this will not change my happiness, my safety, or my comfort. Getting upset over something like this is just... You guys need a ride.

No, the question posed in the thread is not that important. In fact, I said precisely that already, if you actually read what I posted. But winter has nothing to do with my response. What I found/find offensive is this guy 5W30 getting all righteous and condemning on Jeff for having voiced his opinion. Nobody but 5W30 is getting upset about anything, but I don't see the need to just let that kind of accusatory BS go unchallenged. (You might feel differently if it were your post that was lambasted).

I consider myself a friend of Mr Ashe. And I have always valued his contributions and opinions on all things, especially those related to the suspension of out bikes. Yeah, I thought he was off the mark on this one, but I just presented my contrary opinion in what I hope was taken as a civil manner.

Now... as for needing a ride, there you would be very correct. And I intend to correct that tomorrow. The weather here is going to be unseasonably warm on Sunday, possibly into the high 40's (gasp!) which will allow me to get a ride in and save the month of January '16 from being a "black month".

I last rode a motorcycle in December '15, and I hate to let an entire month go without any ride. Besides, the Vstrom is still dirty and crusty from my last December ride (rode hard, put away wet) so no harm, no foul.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

My friends, I will attempt to not offend anyone by using controversial terminology.

I had this thread on my mind this afternoon as I rode my ES to work. I asked myself about pre-load, damping, the science of suspension setup and how all that related to my ride.

This is what I know: The menu picture thingy showed a picture of one full faced motorcycle helmet, one coil spring and what looks like a side silhouette picture of an FJR. There was a funny looking double ended arrow thingy that appeared to be split down one side because the broadhead was only visible on one side.

The other menu picture thingy had another version of that double ended, split arrow. It said "STD 0"

My suspension felt responsive and controlled. Supple, yet tight. Firm, but not harsh. I do not know what some of you guys know about suspension. I don't pretend to know. I enjoyed my ride on the FJR in spite of my ignorance concerning my suspension setup.

I admit I do not care for a brand new member attacking ANYTHING OR ANYONE on OUR forum before he/she establishes some credibility. But, we should have other stuff to worry about besides which word to use and whether pre-load is really what is taking place in our forks. Important things like the fact that my '15 ES only has 5 gears.

For me, fork preload is when I have a small piece of sirloin on my fork but there is room for a bigger piece. Then, the fork is fully loaded when I have two pieces of sirloin on it.

Your Mileage May Vary.

P.S. Love ya Fred.

 

[TomInPA]

This thread sucks! HaulinAsche posted one of the most useful suspension tuning threads for Gen I of all time LINK. Many of us used his guidelines to make our stock suspensions work as well as possible, event though that was nearly completely cranked down. In that thread he suggested:

FRONT
* Preload, Line-2 (this means one line exposed above the cap, one line flush with the cap/adjuster). Stock setting is Line-3.

Now there is that ugly "preload" word. I actually cranked mine to 1-line and it worked great for years. In fact I didn't upgrade my rear suspension to a Penske until 2012, and just got done putting better springs in this weekend. Now we have a post that seems to discredit him as having any idea what the **** he is talking about. Well the hell with that! I used the HaulinAsche setup for 6-years and recommended it to many others. I don't really care what the reason is that is works, it works great until you upgrade the components.

I'm going to forget this ever happened.

 

[TripperMike]

I dunno, I thought what 5w30 said was funny. It was just so outlandish that it struck my funny bone. And from having read some of Ashe's past post, that he knows enough about what he speaketh of that I doubt he was bothered much by what 5w30 posted.

However with that said, I just got a package this week from Mr Brown Truck driver with new front forks parts, that when I take apart my forks in the next several days, I'm going to look into this stuff a little bit closer. This is a good thread and maybe come springtime I'll play around with my fork settings a bit more.

 

[HYCLE]

I love the fact that this thread has provoked, inspired, motivated the readers to think. Well done FJR Forum!

I think that if a spring is sitting upright on the floor and uncompressed it is not pre loaded.

I think that if a spring is sitting upright on the floor, and slightly compressed, it is pre loaded, if I plan to change the load pushing on the spring at sometime in the future.

If the spring is not going to have the load changed and is slightly compressed, it is just loaded.

So if I go to a bar before work and have some Tequlia I have pre loaded my system. This will have some effect on my work I do during the day.

The amount of preload is critical, If I preload the system too much I do not have the ability to absorb as much and will not work effectively.

I hope this helps, and is not meant to discourage your use of preload at anytime.