Just came back from the mountains... and it was a disaster!!

[ELP_JC]

I was alerting the poster of REALITY; I never intended to buy that bike (always buy my bikes new), so I don't owe an apology to anybody, '******'. That's what I get for trying to be nice, but yes, I learned my lesson. And I got my price without any haggling, by the way. Some folks bought theirs for even less. Hijack over. Oh, wait, it's my own thread.

Hope you guys are through with your crap. But just in case, time to exercise the 'manage ignored users' feature to keep things civil, so please don't bother replying.

JC

 

[ELP_JC]

That ignition wire has been reported on older bikes, with high mileage. It's a valid concern, but honestly don't think it has anything to do with this problem, which shows up on new bikes that run perfectly... until changing elevation.

I also agree the next step is to swap ECUs with an '06. It HAS to be a map issue; no question about that.

V65, I was just answering a question. I completely agree '06 and '07s are identical, so this further solidifies the above statement that it HAS to be the ECU. Some tighter EPA requirements or something like that. Have a great day.

JC

 

[huk finn]

Hey ELP_JC,
I know what you mean.... you might want to read 2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted there are many others that have this problem including me.... I also have a PCIII installed on my bike while I think it help a little it doesn't eliminate the problem... I hope a fix if found soon

KEone

here's a quip from tfi company (like pc3).

Sensor Manipulation Boxes basically lie to your bike’s computer about engine sensor values in a way that influences it to change fuel delivery in a pre-planned way. Unfortunately, this expensive scheme breaks down when your engine encounters temperature and altitude conditions that require the enrichment you were depending on to enhance performance and ridability.

The above is their sales pitch putting their unit above the pc3. I dont have a tfi or endorse them, just putting out an idea /product that may help you folks riding in the mountains. seems you can dial in different settings while on side of road

 

[ELP_JC]

Hey Huck, thanks a lot for pitching in buddy.

By 'tfi', are you referring to the 'Techlusion' module?? I installed one on my brother's Victory Hammer, after putting some custom pipes, and it worked great, since A/F ratios were too lean before that. I had to do a lot of testing with a small screwdriver on hand, but ended up leaving the engine just about pefect, so my tech-challenged brother could just hop on and ride it.

However, just like you said, the Techlusion just adds (or leaves the same) fuel ON TOP of what your ECU is calling for (PCIII can reduce it as well). So, I see no way either a PCIII or Techlusion or Cobra2000 can get rid of surging due to ECU issues, which is apparently what we're dealing with. And not just a lean condition, which is the main issue these devices fix.

Some members report a surging improvement with a PC, but not the elimination of it. And others claim it doesn't help at all with the surging issue. I'm fine with my bike's throttle behavior, so don't see the reason to spend on a PCIII at this time. But keep the comments coming, especially if somebody has had different results. And if somebody has used a Techlusion on our bikes, I'd like to hear about that as well, but we can alter fuel with the CO levels, doing almost exactly what a Techlusion can do, no? At least the PCIII is more versatile, and much more fine tunable with its different maps and adjustments available. Take care.

JC

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Damn I am lucky. I got an old dinosaur, an 03 bought new in July of 02. Man this thing runs so good I will never trade or sell until it craps out. PCIII, Holeshot full system, custom map on the dyno courtesy of Dale Walker.

 

[huk finn]

Hey Huck, thanks a lot for pitching in buddy.However, just like you said, the Techlusion just adds (or leaves the same) fuel ON TOP of what your ECU is calling for (PCIII can reduce it as well). So, I see no way either a PCIII or Techlusion or Cobra2000 can get rid of surging due to ECU issues, which is apparently what we're dealing with. And not just a lean condition, which is the main issue these devices fix.

(2) Some members report a surging improvement with a PC,

JC

(1) Rethinking the issue, I agree that adding more fuel is WRONG at higher altitudes. I'm thinking that there are LESS air molicules and and the ecu is not trimming the fuel mixture. You folks might be running to rich at higher elevations, maybe fouling plugs. The mention of "shutting off engine helps for awile" ,,,, maybe this is letting sparkplugs dry /fuel evaporate in a hot engine giving temporary relief.

Maybe yamaha (cheaped out) changed oxigen sensors or other sensors thru the model year, using a "narrow band" sensor that wont allow ecu to compensate for thin air.

(2) The pc3 has the ability remove fuel from mixture. But you'd need someone to make a map on a dyno that is in the altitudes (air pressure)your having problems at.

maybe an idea is to see if yamaha changed oxigen sensors (to a wide band)in the fz fix, or ask a tech what they actually did to cure that model. Maybe they explained it in a recall or service bulliten

 

[ELP_JC]

Maybe an idea is to see if yamaha changed oxigen sensors (to a wide band)in the fz fix, or ask a tech what they actually did to cure that model. Maybe they explained it in a recall or service bulliten

Excellent point man. Now I'm curious what exactly went into the FZ1 fix. Does anybody have a subscription to one of those services where you can see the detail of TSBs?? I bet it's detailed there. Thanks buddy.

JC

 

[bmwhd]

Maybe an idea is to see if yamaha changed oxigen sensors (to a wide band)in the fz fix, or ask a tech what they actually did to cure that model. Maybe they explained it in a recall or service bulliten

Excellent point man. Now I'm curious what exactly went into the FZ1 fix. Does anybody have a subscription to one of those services where you can see the detail of TSBs?? I bet it's detailed there. Thanks buddy.

JC

I'm not sure the FZ1 issue (which now seems to NOT be fixed on the '07 rather just muted somewhat) is relevant. If injector cutoff snatch was an issue on the '07 FJRs it would likely manifest at all altitudes.

FWIW, my early '06A as not exhibited any of these altitude issues ever.

 

[ELP_JC]

FWIW, my early '06A as not exhibited any of these altitude issues ever.

I'd LOVE to get my hands on your ECU man. I'd be nice to do the swap with somebody local to you to have 100% certainty it's the ECU alone. Well, I'd say we have 98% certainty now, so no biggie. What else can it be?

As far as the FZ1, what I've read is surging issues at altitude as well, but maybe they also had what you mentioned. Which is also present on the FJR if you don't adjust your throttle play, relax the throttle spring, and carefully synch the TBs.

 

[huk finn]

I'm not sure the FZ1 issue (which now seems to NOT be fixed on the '07 rather just muted somewhat) is relevant. If injector cutoff snatch was an issue on the '07 FJRs it would likely manifest at all altitudes.

You are correct, apples & oranges between the fuel cut off & surge/ stall in altitudes. Dont know why I brought that issue up (with the fz). I knew all about the fz issue, must have been a few beers = running of the mouth.

some questions to ask,,, has anyone had a dealer reflash their ecm? I dont think my local dealer has the capabilities, nor would they care to replace it with out a recall/ tsb.

Also,, anyone think theres a possibility of a bad vendor of sensors . I did email denso & bosch to see if they made any for yamaha, no they dont. Maybe yamaha cheaped out and got a load from tiawan or china???? I dont see any complaints from the yami venture boards about altitude.

 

[ELP_JC]

Hey Huck, I'd love to get my ECU reflashed with '06 data < he he>. As far as getting it reflashed or replaced with a current '07, what for? It'd be the same thing buddy. Yamaha hasn't made any changes yet. Once they do, I'd tell my dealer to order mine immediately.

As far as a reflash or ECU replacement, I don't know buddy. But what was done with the FZ1 could be an indication. On my '03 BMW, it was a ECU replacement. New BMWs with the CanBus system can be reflashed. Do we have a CanBus system on our bike? The fact headlight doesn't turn on until engine is running is an indication, but am not sure. As long as the problem is fixed, I don't care how. Take care.

JC