Kenwood flat blade antenna for your Autocom..

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I think the Kenwood is a great radio. The best thing is that Autocom has a thing that slips on the radio like the battery would. With this set-up the radio is bike powered. I mounted my radio under the seat out of harms way. Once you get the volume set your done. With the others you will have to change batterys or charge every day.... I think the flat blade works great, I don't think my Kenwood or any other bubble pack radio will talk over a few miles. I also think the FCC sets power on all FRS-GMRS radios.. I think it would be safe to say power wise they would have to be close. My brother and I talked clearly at 1.5 miles on the way home from Daytona.... As the licence goes, I am not going to buy one... but I didn't buy one 20+ years ago when I bought a CB... Smitty

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the Kenwood is a great radio. The best thing is that Autocom has a thing that slips on the radio like the battery would. With this set-up the radio is bike powered. I mounted my radio under the seat out of harms way. Once you get the volume set your done. With the others you will have to change batterys or charge every day.... I think the flat blade works great, I don't think my Kenwood or any other bubble pack radio will talk over a few miles. I also think the FCC sets power on all FRS-GMRS radios.. I think it would be safe to say power wise they would have to be close. My brother and I talked clearly at 1.5 miles on the way home from Daytona.... As the licence goes, I am not going to buy one... but I didn't buy one 20+ years ago when I bought a CB... Smitty
Yea. What Smitty said

 
When I bought my kenwood I had read online what Smitty said. I thought about doing more research into the subject, but that would mean crossing the line from a couple hours invested to doing some major research. So I went with what autocom recommended (a pair of kenwoods off from ebay for $125). So,

$75 = possibly overpaid

extra time spent with family = priceless

I'm good.

 
What they said and:

The Kenwood TK3101 is MIL-810 rated for shock and vibration. It is waterproof and tough as nails. It is a radio intended for industrial use and there are a raft of accessories available for it. Just the fact that the antenna can be removed and uses a standadr RF connector says volumes.

While some of the consumer class radios may have more power, they are usually as deaf as doorknobs, meaning that their overall reach imay not be as far - and they are subject to interference because their receivers aren't what is known in the industry as 'selective'.

Selectivity is less of a problem on the road than it is at Americade (for example), where there are lots of people on adjacent channels.

When I travel I toss my TK3101 with it's battery battery into the bag so I can use it as a portable - but I haven't been able to get my group to use radios while riding, so while I'm equipped, I don't bring the radio along for casual rides yet.

As to the efficiency of the blade antenna? I'm certain that it sucks almost as badly as when you stick the radio horizontally in your tank bag with the 'rubber ducky' OEM antenna installed.

The best solution ought to be installing an NGP (no ground plane) UHF gain antenna on a bracket of some sort at the rear of the bike - it ought to provide about 10 dB (10 times) the relative power & sensitivity (which translates into double the range) as the original lossy rubber thing that comes with the radio - and also offsets the additional losses you cause by coupling the antenna to the metal of the tank when you dump it in a bag.

Some NGP antenna options include:

Maxrad MUF4505NGP

Sinclabs SUB-4303

Antenex BW4505CNS

Larsen PHW series

 
As to the efficiency of the blade antenna? I'm certain that it sucks almost as badly as when you stick the radio horizontally in your tank bag with the 'rubber ducky' OEM antenna installed.
The best solution ought to be installing an NGP (no ground plane) UHF gain antenna on a bracket of some sort at the rear of the bike - it ought to provide about 10 dB (10 times) the relative power & sensitivity (which translates into double the range) as the original lossy rubber thing that comes with the radio - and also offsets the additional losses you cause by coupling the antenna to the metal of the tank when you dump it in a bag.
Dude, where are you coming up with this stuff???? Don't want to get into antenna theory, but EVERY antenna, NGP or GP is affected by where it is located in relation to RF reflective material. The problem isn't laying the duck on the tank, the problem is putting the duck on its side. All mobile antenna's have limitations, but lead in wires are a major source of problems and every couple is a source of loss and impedance mismatch. Where are you going to run these lead ins and where are you going to mount them. When you say a 10db gain, that is a tremendous jump and I don't think you would bet your paycheck on those kinds of numbers. Also, sensitivity in non-directional antenna's depends on the receiver circuits NOT the antenna. For all "practical" purposes, you're going to get about the same range from a Midland 2watt clipped to your pocket or back that you would with 5 or 10 watts with your NGP. Then again, it's bike to bike not Titanic to Nova Scotia. So if you are talking to bikes that are running together, usually less than a quarter mile, duck in the bag is just as good as anything. If you want to talk much farther than that, maybe we should be talking satellite links.

 
Ducks tend to run about 9 dB below a dipole. Mobile gain antennas will typically deliver between 3 and 5 dB gain depending on whether they are elevated feed or not. Horizontal orientation will contribute as much as a 20dB additional loss when communicating with a vertically polarised antenna. Stuffing the unit within a quarter wave of the tank won't help.

I'd probably fabricate and mount a bracket to the rear topcase holder or something similar. There isn;t enough significant metal on the bike to provide a ground plane and there WOULD be someforward shadowing of the energy, but it wouldn't be all that much.

We're dealing with radio-line-of sight communications, but even so, doubling the ERP and effective sensitivity of both ends of the link WILL provide significant performance benefit.

I'd take that bet that the difference between a portable wired to a proper NGP mobile antenna mounted on a bracket at the back of the bike will outperform a portable with a rubber duck stuck in your tank bag with ANY orientation by 10 dB - cable and connectors notwithstanding.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lots of good info flying back and forth here, albeit most of the jargon is flying straight over my head. I just want a decent setup to talk to my riding buds up to a mile or so with clear communication. While on the DV ride, the Chatterbox seemed to have the range over the Kenwood TK3101 with the standard antenna, but the quality of transmission was leaps and bounds better coming from the Kenwood/Autocom. I think this can be attributed to the boom mic quality?

Other than the link to Smittys antenna, which looks like it'll do the job I need it to do, can you post up some links of the other rear mounted type, so that a direct comparison can be made in terms of cost and performance.

 
"Ducks tend to run about 9 dB below a dipole. Mobile gain antennas will typically deliver between 3 and 5 dB gain depending on whether they are elevated feed or not. Horizontal orientation will contribute as much as a 20dB additional loss when communicating with a vertically polarised antenna. Stuffing the unit within a quarter wave of the tank won't help."

#1 at UHF and being a handheld in a mobil application, you may as well compare it to a rhombic because dipoles are very rarely used in that situation. You might get variations on dipoles where you have 5/8th whips that have taps located at points where the top half is a radiator and the bottom is really just an impedance matching device. In that case it is in a vertical rather than the normal horizontal dipole position. Point is a the 9db gain is a gain over an antenna that isn't even in the game. Totally agree on a possible loss of 20db by making it a horizontal to vertical shot, but what if the other guy has his radio on it's side too. That is hypothetical BS because I'll probably clip it to my tank bag in a vertical orientation.

"I'd probably fabricate and mount a bracket to the rear topcase holder or something similar. There isn;t enough significant metal on the bike to provide a ground plane and there WOULD be someforward shadowing of the energy, but it wouldn't be all that much."

If I were making this a semi-permanent installation I would absolutely agree with you. Personally, I want my radio where I can change freqs and other settings. I don't want it under the seat. There was some inference that Autocom controls a Kenwood. Don't think so. Only setting is VOX. Also, I still like the ability to take, music player, radio, and Autocom off the tank in the tank bag with me when I'm away from the bike.

"We're dealing with radio-line-of sight communications, but even so, doubling the ERP and effective sensitivity of both ends of the link WILL provide significant performance benefit."

I'll buy that, but here is something to consider. Those mileage numbers and power numbers really are a baseline to make educated guesses with. Unless you are crossing Kansas under ideal propagation conditions, 1 watts, 5 watts the effective range of these units is really more like a mile or two regardless of antenna type. If you get more it probably has more to do with luck or conditions than equipment design. If I really wanted reliable comms, I'd get a 2m or 440 Ham radio. Problem is I wouldn't have anyone to talk to. The more I find out about GMRS/FRS, that is pretty much the same situation also because there isn't a common call freq for strangers to meet on. I'm also getting to the point where I believe most of the users of these radios would have a tough time changing freqs to match conditions especially when the unit is under the seat.

"I'd take that bet that the difference between a portable wired to a proper NGP mobile antenna mounted on a bracket at the back of the bike will outperform a portable with a rubber duck stuck in your tank bag with ANY orientation by 10 dB - cable and connectors notwithstand"

You're a brave man :)

 
This is alot more detail than I understand but here is a pic of my antenna . Should I move it to another location or is this ok?

IMGP0496.jpg


And I know the bike is dirty I just completed a BBG ang an additional 2500 miles coming home I will wash it this weekend.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is alot more detail than I understand but here is a pic of my antenna . Should I move it to another location or is this ok?And I know the bike is dirty I just completed a BBG ang an additional 2500 miles coming home I will wash it this weekend.
I think that bramfrank and I are going to be in total agreement on this one, but the radiation pattern on that antenna, especially when you have the trunk on is going to be real bad, no, real real bad. These radios need to have an antenna that should be vertical and also have the least amount of "stuff" between the transmitting and receiving antennas.

 
Thanks for the info on this. I dont have any Knowledge on radio stuff.

My question would be this Is this the wrong type of antenna for my use? Just be honest I can take it.

I dont think that I can mount it verticlly because it is somewhat flexible and would flop around in the wind.

Here is a pic of bike with fuel cell and trunk. Should I get a soid type antenna such as the ones listed early in this thread and mount somewere around the top of trunk or could that be mounted to the mounting plate were the flexible antenna is and have it stick up partially between trunk and feul cell?

Thank Alot for any help.

IMGP0479.jpg


 
Thanks for the info on this. I dont have any Knowledge on radio stuff. My question would be this Is this the wrong type of antenna for my use? Just be honest I can take it.

I dont think that I can mount it verticlly because it is somewhat flexible and would flop around in the wind.

Here is a pic of bike with fuel cell and trunk. Should I get a soid type antenna such as the ones listed early in this thread and mount somewere around the top of trunk or could that be mounted to the mounting plate were the flexible antenna is and have it stick up partially between trunk and feul cell?

Thank Alot for any help.
If that tank is ferrous, in other words a magnet sticks to it, you could get a magnetic mount antenna and the tank would make a great ground plane. If not, you have the textbook application for what bramfrank was talking about, an NGP type of antenna. He listed several. If you go horizontal you have what is known as polarization issues and if you put it vertical but beside that tank and trunk, you have masking issues. That's why putting something vertical on top of the tank would be a real good place. It also appears that you are setting up for long hauls. If you are riding alone, CB "may" be a much better option than GMRS/FRS.

 
The Tank is Aluminum so the magnet idea is out but I looked at the others and I am sure I could mount one of them to the top of the trunk or maybe the fuel cell.

Thanks Sprint for this info.

 
The Tank is Aluminum so the magnet idea is out but I looked at the others and I am sure I could mount one of them to the top of the trunk or maybe the fuel cell.
Thanks Sprint for this info.
You can use 3M Dual Loc fasteners to lock down just about anything. put a piece on the aluminum tank and a piece on bottom of antenna mount and it will work ok.

 
The Tank is Aluminum so the magnet idea is out but I looked at the others and I am sure I could mount one of them to the top of the trunk or maybe the fuel cell.
Thanks Sprint for this info.
You can use 3M Dual Loc fasteners to lock down just about anything. put a piece on the aluminum tank and a piece on bottom of antenna mount and it will work ok.
Is that the plastic like velcro that Cee Bailey uses for there headlight protectors?

 
Those dual locks are great. Only problem I ever had with them was they were too strong for what I was using them for, and they pulled up the stuff I had them stuck to. Also, even though it is aluminum, it will still work as an excellent ground plane. Those radios operate somewhere around 450mhz which means that antennas don't have to be long to be effective. So a short one won't get much bend or wind loading even at very high speeds. In theory, you are probably going to have a GMRS/FRS in the "good as it gets" category.

 
OK 1 more question but maybe not the last one. If I by this antenna MUF4505NGP

Will I have to make my own cable or how will I connect to the radio.

 
You might try this site for some information on mounting a FM transcever on a motorcycle. You can purchase a very nice machined mount for the rack on the top box. I think they sell them for $25 or so. Then you can mount a nice high gain antenna, Diamond antenna's in San Marcos, CA will even make you a custom length antenna lead with a SMA connector. Just tell them what you want.

https://www.marc-hq.org/

https://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40.ima...t03.300x230.jpg

https://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40.ima...t01.300x194.jpg

 
After installing my autocom I wanted a way to leave my radio under the seat. Autocom sell the same flat blade type antenna for $89.95. Mr. Wizard found out who made the antennas for them. The problem with there antenna is the coax is only 36" long and it cost $89.95. The antenna is made by Radian-Larson, but they wont sell to the public. A very nice lady there gave me the phone # and a contact. His name is Harvey, at National Electronics in Lenexa KS. He orders every two week from Larson (they have minimum order $). I ask if he mind if I gave his name and phone number out... he said sure. You can order this type antenna with any length coax. The coax is small and will be easy to hide. The antenna is about 3/4" wide and 10" long and very flexible. I plan on putting it on the inside of my windscreen for max. talk range. You will aso need there adapter to connect it to your Kenwood 3101FRS/GMRS radio. The best thing is this antenna is only.....$26.87, and the adapter is $2.97. Here the info. Smitty

National Electronics (ask for Harvey)

Lenexa KS.

800-762-5049

Part numbers below...

SB450FME12 Antenna with 12' of coax $26.87

FSF Antenna adapter $ 2.97
I just ordered this. The phone number is still good and the antenna is in stock. I think the bill totaled about $35 before shipping. Kind of a blast from the past (2007 thread), but if anyone is looking for a blade antenna to add to a Kenwood radio, this is a well-priced source.

 
Top