Leaky Right Fork Seal

[RossKean]

I have a (so far) slight leak in a fork seal. I know the Sealmate trick and I have done it before (on this same seal late last season). I am planning to leave on a long cross-continent trip in a couple of weeks and I want to make sure that I don't have a problem on the road. The seals probably have 60-70,000 miles on them so I am not 100% sure the Sealmate approach is the best idea under the circumstances.

How difficult is it to change the seals without draining the fork oil? I changed the oil last year and I would rather not dump it right now if I don't need to. I know that the bushings could probably stand to be replaced but that's not in the cards right now.

I'm not even sure of the best way to get the seals out - will have to see if the FSM is much help. Often the official Yamaha way is not the best or the most efficient!

Edit: FSM says remove the dust seal and spring retainer, fill the shock with oil and compress the shock in a press to force the seal out with hydraulic pressure! Sounds like a major pain in the ***; not to mention messy. Maybe they can be picked out without draining the shock or damaging the tubes?

 

[RaYzerman19]

Not the easiest to get the seals out without disassembly of the whole shebang........ but, unauthorized procedure and only if you're careful, I have drilled a small hole in the middle of the seal (metal carrier) and screwed in a deck screw. The screw will bottom out on the washer below the seal and will apply pressure to push it out. It won't likely come easily as the seals tend to glue themselves to the fork housing, so light heating with a heat gun or propane torch is in order for sure, before you screw in the deck screw. It may take multiple attempts or carefully prying with an awl in the hole (or holes) you drilled. Be sure to keep the screw centered as not to gouge things unnecessarily. Patience, Grasshopper, it can be frustrating.

I could never understand the hydraulic method, as typical removal with the fork tube/bushings as a slide hammer can sometimes be difficult. That would have to be some hydraulic pressure to be the equivalent of that, and would end up looking worse than Old Faithful erupting.......... anyway, be sure to heat the outer fork tube in the seal area, it makes the job easier.

On the other hand, if your bushings are ready for replacement, and so are your seals, why are you fretting over the loss of a litre of fork oil.... it's likely faster to just replace it all instead of mucking around with the screw method I described...... of course you have to have the middle bushing tool to install the new bushing unless you choose to leave it out...........

 

[RossKean]

...

On the other hand, if your bushings are ready for replacement, and so are your seals, why are you fretting over the loss of a litre of fork oil.... it's likely faster to just replace it all instead of mucking around with the screw method I described...... of course you have to have the middle bushing tool to install the new bushing unless you choose to leave it out...........

I don't have a suitable middle bushing tool. It has been around 60,000 miles (100,000 km) since the bushings and seals were replaced. Fork oil was done a little over a year and 25,000 miles ago. Because I am planning a trip, I don't want to do anything that could result in something getting messed up. It sounds like the seal removal is not too bad but I may decide to try the Sealmate but have the oil seal and dust seal on hand in case I run into difficulties. I'll plan to get bushings and seals changed out over the winter unless I encounter someone with the right tools at a Tech Day somewhere within a day's ride from me. (Do you have a middle bushing tool?) I don't especially trust my local dealer enough to pay them way to much money to do this for me!

I have read that some people leave out the middle bushing. I know the Gen I's don't have one but I have to think there is a reason why Yamaha thought it was a good idea for the Gen II.

So, there was no need to drain the fork oil for this?

 

[Bungie]

Stop being so cheap and spring for some fork oil to allow you to do it properly.

 

[RossKean]

Stop being so cheap and spring for some fork oil to allow you to do it properly.

Being cheap is only part of the problem

Popping out the seals using Yamaha's method is a messy pain in the ***! Whether or not I change the oil, I still have to get the seals out. If I have to go through that, I'll do the whole thing, including the bushings. I would still need the driver for the middle bushing.

Current plan is to try the Sealmate approach. If its still holding up after a week or two, I'll call it good until the end of the season. If there is even a hint of a leak, I'll at least change the seals before my trip.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Read my latest post in the Fork Maintenance Failure thread, then perhaps you can decide if you want middle bushings in or not.... and yes I do have a middle bushing tool that I take to tech days..... if you make one, go to CanTire and get a piece of 1-7/8" exhaust pipe (they sell pieces 18" long with one end expanded, but you only need maybe 8" long. With a Dremmel/grinder/file chucked into a drill, remove the weld seam on the inside diameter.... it's a bit of work. The idea is it is thin enough wall to fit inside the outer fork tube and just big enough to fit over the upper fork tube.

 

[Fred W]

Ross,

If using a seal-mate works to seal it up, even if only for a short time, then that proves that the seal is intact and the problem doesn't require new seals. It is just (more) dirt getting under the seals. This generally happens when you ride of some bumpy roads (like the ones you are surrounded by in New Brunswick) and compress the forks more than "normal". That pushes the road dirt from the exposed inner fork leg under the seal and a leak is soon to follow.

Some ways to help avoid recurring leaky seals is to clean the inner fork tubes more often and more thoroughly, and/or install a "gaiter" of some type to keep the road spooge off the exposed inner fork legs. I've had pretty good luck with the NOJ brand neoprene gaiters which seem to protect inner leg from dirt somewhat higher up as compared to the stock deflectors do.

I also always carry a (home made) seal mate with me as you can seal up a leaky seal on the side of the road pretty quickly and easily. That's much better insurance against the problem than even replacing the seals would be; even new seals can leak when they get dirty.

When it really is time to replace those seals, your bushings will be way overdue for replacement too. The teflon layer on the friction surfaces of a 2nd Gen bushings never last 60-70 k miles. It's best to do a full disassembly including the bushings, seals, and new fork oil.

 

[RossKean]

Thanks Ray -I read your other post.

I have observed/participated in one Gen II fork bushing and seal replacement. One fork behaved well and the middle bushing on the other one got stuck! Took some persistence but we finally got it apart. I don't really have any local resources to help if I run into trouble and, as I mentioned, I don't have a lot of confidence in the dealer. In addition to the middle bushing tool, I don't have anything to remove the damper rod assembly. I think some have had success with an air gun but I would be in trouble if that didn't work. Ideally, I would like to get all of the parts and try to get in on a Tech Day where there is someone around with the tools and expertise.

Within reason, it doesn't really matter where - I'm always up for a road trip to a worthy destination!

 

[RossKean]

Thanks Fred,

You posted while I was replying to Ray's last post.

Bumpy roads in New Brunswick - how could you suggest such a thing?

I had an episode of leaking seals (both sides) at about 60,000 miles. I didn't try the Sealmate at that time but Ed Demler was kind enough to help me with the full fork service. I haven't had much trouble until late last year (and another almost 70,000 miles) when one of the seals had a small leak. The Sealmate did the trick but the same one is oozing a bit of fluid again. Normally, I would try the Sealmate again without a thought but since I am planning a major road trip, I was considering replacing the seals to reduce the likelihood of a problem on the road a long way away from technical resources.

Bushings are due, of course, in addition to the seals. They weren't awful the last time but it is probably a good idea to do the whole thing. As always, time and (local) resources are problems! Parts to order, tools to borrow (or fabricate), time to do the work and hope I don't hit a snag.

 

[RossKean]

Well, I made a Sealmate facsimile and tried it out tonight. Went for a 20 mile ride and there seems to be a very small amount of oil on the upper tube. Possibly some residual held up by the dust seal or perhaps the oil seal had not fully re-seated before I started. Not from the fork protector as I was able to pop it up and get it out of the way. I'll give it a week or so and then decide whether I am going to try to rebuild the forks before my trip. I'll be cutting it close since I am planning to leave in three weeks or so. Still don't have the necessary tools...

 

[Fred W]

Ross,

I'm sure that you have seen the

(It's even on a beautiful Blue FJR!) but the idea is that you should get the seal cleaned, and then pump the fork(s) to re-seat the seal. The inner tube should be bone dry when the seal has been fully cleaned and reseated.
You absolutely MUST remove the dust seal and push it up completely out of the way to allow getting the sealmate under the oil seal lip at the right angle to drag the crud up and out. It can be a little fiddly getting the sealmate all the way around the seal lip with the fork still installed on the bike, but it can be done with patience and some practice.

 

[RossKean]

I was able to pop up the fork protector with no problem. Cleaned the upper part of the tube. Popped up the dust seal and cleaned it first. Blew out any crap sitting on top of the lower seal with an air hose. Very easy to insert and go around between the oil seal and the tube (three times) with these things out of the way. I bounced it a few times and couldn't tell if it was 100% leak-free so I went for a short ride on a nice bumpy NB road to give it some action. I will know better about the success of the treatment later today.

 

[RossKean]

Almost 300 miles later and nary a drop of suspension fluid on the inner fork tube.

Chalk another one up to the ersatz Seal-mate. Didn't look as pretty as the "Official" one but did the trick. If I see a real Sealmate somewhere for < $10, I'll buy it. My copy of their design just saved me a bunch of money and time.

I still think I will keep my eyes open for a Tech Day where someone has the fork tools (and knows how to use them). I'll get the parts ordered and have them on hand - complete fork service is due anyway.

 

[Harald]

Glad to hear of another STEALmate success story.

I just cut out a couple myself in order to have one along on a trip I'm taking in a couple weeks. It won't take up much room and will be a trip saver if it's needed.

 

[RossKean]

Crap!!

It has been good for around three weeks and maybe 1500 miles. Just noticed a bit of weeping on the same fork seal. Just a few drops and not enough to run down the fork leg. Unfortunately, I am supposed to be leaving on a major trip next week and there is no way I'll be able to get the parts and do the work on it before then. Highly doubtful the local dealer will have the parts in stock. What might be an inconvenience and an annoyance with the bike at (or near) home becomes a real problem 4,000 miles away from home in the middle of a month-long trip!

Should have replaced the seals when the leak started. Guess I'll try the Sealmate again and hope it doesn't get worse. That or my trip will be a washout.

 

[Denver_FJR]

Bah! Sorry to hear about the false success. I'm batting 000 with seal mate so far (only two attempts though). I'm thinking 60k miles is great service from seals, anything over 30k is bonus to me. Now is the time to get them replaced.

 

[stealth1]

Bah! Sorry to hear about the false success. I'm batting 000 with seal mate so far (only two attempts though). I'm thinking 60k miles is great service from seals, anything over 30k is bonus to me. Now is the time to get them replaced.

I guess a lot depends on the roads you ride. I evidently do not display very good judgement in this regard. Just pulled the forks for a second rebuild at 40,000 miles.

1st was at about 20,000.

I wimped out and just took the forks to a shop for a rebuild. I'll let you know how that works out.

Didn't have confidence in rebuilding them myself.

 

[RossKean]

Bah! Sorry to hear about the false success. I'm batting 000 with seal mate so far (only two attempts though). I'm thinking 60k miles is great service from seals, anything over 30k is bonus to me. Now is the time to get them replaced.

Only problem is that I have just 4 business days between now and my planned departure time and I don't have much flexibility with that. Since the dealer is unlikely to have stock, it means that parts are at least three days away and I won't have the time. I'll call the dealer in the AM and see what he has - not very hopeful. No chance I'll be able to do the bushings so I hope Ray's seal removal method works for me.

 

[Denver_FJR]

Only problem is that I have just 4 business days between now and my planned departure time and I don't have much flexibility with that. Since the dealer is unlikely to have stock, it means that parts are at least three days away and I won't have the time. I'll call the dealer in the AM and see what he has - not very hopeful. No chance I'll be able to do the bushings so I hope Ray's seal removal method works for me.

I just had seals replaced on a Super Tenere, took about two days and I didn't ask for special treatment or nuttin. There has to be a better supply for the FJR! I know some dealers keep a lean inventory, I would just think for a wear item like seals they would keep a box full next to the counter.

Good luck with repairs.