I tired, this forum tells me "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community".
LED replace met for H4 bulbs?
- Thread starter sath182
- Start date
Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
Pssst... It's lose not loose.
No neeed to thank me, I know you'd do the same for me.
PM me the links to the piccies, I'll get 'em on here.
RossKean
Well-known member
I like the idea of the LED's but will wait for some reviews and maybe a price drop. For someone who keeps a bike for a couple of years and puts 30,000 miles on it, the LED's are expensive - may never need to replace a burnt out an OEM incandescent bulb. For someone (like me) who will keep this bike going for many years and maybe 200,000 miles (I hope), the longevity of the LED has some appeal. Cost effective and worthwhile if lighting is as good or better than OEM.
supertankerm60a3
Well-known member
Headlight 'buckets' are two dimensional parabolas, slightly modified to shape the beam in the desired way. A parabola, by definition has a single focal point. The problem with LED's up until now is the were either arraigned in a way that the light was omnidirectional but was originating from a relatively large area thus destroying the focus of the parabolic reflector or each LED was dependent on its own lens/reflector focusing system.
In tail lights, high quality LED bulbs had arraignments that used up to 36 LEDs in such a way that it still used the tail light's reflector, thus creating the proper pattern as opposed to the pitiful little round dot from the cheap ones available from your local Chinese importer type auto parts store. These omnidirectional 'bulbs' ain't cheap though.
By using a single 'giant' LED on each side, it would seem that the engineers have finally overcome, or come close to overcoming the problem of focal point origin for headlight applications. With these, the source looks to be within 2 millimeters of where it would be from a halogen bulb
In tail lights, high quality LED bulbs had arraignments that used up to 36 LEDs in such a way that it still used the tail light's reflector, thus creating the proper pattern as opposed to the pitiful little round dot from the cheap ones available from your local Chinese importer type auto parts store. These omnidirectional 'bulbs' ain't cheap though.
By using a single 'giant' LED on each side, it would seem that the engineers have finally overcome, or come close to overcoming the problem of focal point origin for headlight applications. With these, the source looks to be within 2 millimeters of where it would be from a halogen bulb
I think there are still some problems with the CREE single LED "bulbs because they do not radiate light out in all directions.
Here are those pictures from the FZ1 forum:
Color difference
Single Halogen low beam pattern:
Single CREE low beam pattern
Both CREE Low beams
Both Cree High Beams
Here are those pictures from the FZ1 forum:
Color difference
Single Halogen low beam pattern:
Single CREE low beam pattern
Both CREE Low beams
Both Cree High Beams
Justin
Well-known member
Looking at the pictures above with the two low beam shots against the wall, it appears to me that the Halogens are brighter at distance.
https://www.mathatube.com/images/protractor.gif
With a halogen you have a glowing filament that is emitting light in a 360 degree circle. Manufacturers design the headlight reflector based on the standard of the bulb that will be used (H4 etc). Looking at the angle that the LED light would hit the reflector it's easy to visualize why it throws a lot of light close in and quickly fades away.
Just thinking out loud here, this stuff is interesting.
Most of these units I've seen appear to be using a Cree Xlamp 1512 LED chip. The spec sheet for the 1512 shows a viewing angle of 115 degrees. So you have a cone of light at 115 degrees hitting the reflector from a few inches away at best.
https://www.mathatube.com/images/protractor.gif
With a halogen you have a glowing filament that is emitting light in a 360 degree circle. Manufacturers design the headlight reflector based on the standard of the bulb that will be used (H4 etc). Looking at the angle that the LED light would hit the reflector it's easy to visualize why it throws a lot of light close in and quickly fades away.
Just thinking out loud here, this stuff is interesting.
I figured I'd just post the pictures and see what people think. I'm withholding my opinion for the time being.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
There's not much difference between the LED high and low beams. I think there's still a focus problem. The color of the light is awesome, but if it doesn't reach out, there's no point.
Justin has been on target all along. Without the correct reflector pattern, the light will flood the immediate area, but not be focused enough to go as far as standard halogens. People with good HIDs will laugh at that LED high beam pattern.
Justin has been on target all along. Without the correct reflector pattern, the light will flood the immediate area, but not be focused enough to go as far as standard halogens. People with good HIDs will laugh at that LED high beam pattern.
That's one of the things I noticed too. Not sure if you need a reflector to match the light source or a light source to match the reflector. (chicken or the egg). Either way, this one is not a good match if you really want high and low beams.
It probably doesn't help that the lights are completely mis-aimed, they are buried in the ground 30 feet in front of the bike.
But maybe he couldn't get his FZ1 lights up?
Oh gosh...
It probably doesn't help that the lights are completely mis-aimed, they are buried in the ground 30 feet in front of the bike.
But maybe he couldn't get his FZ1 lights up?
Oh gosh...
Last edited by a moderator:
Top_Speed1
Panama Canal Crosser
I got a pair of H7 LED's (2300lm) and they are excellent Hi-Beams. That being said, I'm not sure how H4's H/L would interact in-side the reflector. With a single beam H7 I was able to adjust, and to only one pattern. 2 patterns would be tricky but give it time, since about a year ago, this technology has come a long way.
I'm thinking with a bit more R&D, a servo shield (similar to the H4 HID capsule) will probably be the answer... at least for an aftermarket upgrade like we are talking.
I'm thinking with a bit more R&D, a servo shield (similar to the H4 HID capsule) will probably be the answer... at least for an aftermarket upgrade like we are talking.
redneckj
Well-known member
If you dont think that a H4 HID conversion light wont outshine a standard 55/60 Halogen light using a factory reflector you have NEVER used a HID conversion bulb. There is absolutely NO comparison to light output between those bulbs.
I just questioned the reliability of the "lil fan". I dont think that any electric fan is designed to run underwater. Some fans, like out cooling fans, are made to be used in a hostile environment. Those fans are designed that way. Are the lil LED bulb fans?? Who knows??
Nanahanman
Well-known member
I have to disagree with that one....at least in my experience.
I can pretty much tell when someone has an HID conversion as the beam is NOT directed properly and is blinding me in my mirrors and lighting up the over pass!
You can clearly see the low beam pattern on the ground isn't right.
Probably, there is an adjustment for this but I figure the owner is of the "more light is better light" camp and doesn't give a crap.
I was considering HIDs for the FJR but decided not to spend $$ on something that I may not like.
As for the "chicken and egg" of bulb or reflector design, it's a co-operative thing.
They have to be designed to work together and it's very difficult to retrofit a different light source into an existing reflector and get the right result.
I have had problems with cheap "off shore" H4 bulbs that are manufactured with loose specifications and don't work properly because the filament as not located correctly.
If you want a good example, look at a conventional Mag flashlight and an LED Mag and see how poorly the focus works on the LED one.
Last edited by a moderator:
This has not been my experience. It may depend on the make/brand of HID lights being used, but the beam patterns on my bike were the same with the kit that I have. If you were being blinded and the overp[*** was being illuminated then they must have been some pretty crappy lights.
Here are some direct comparative pictures of my headlights when I did the HID upgrade:
Halogen Low beam 25 ft.
HID Low Beam 25ft
Halogen High Beam 25ft
HID High Beam 25ft
HID Low beams 75ft
HID High Beams 75ft
The HID Lights I used (left shown in low beam position, right shown in high beam position)
Last edited by a moderator:
Nanahanman
Well-known member
Good pics!
Still, they show a better low beam cut off with the H4 as compared to the HID.
It makes a huge difference to on coming drivers if that cut off isn't clean and in the right place.
I'm not saying it's only HID that has this problem either. Most people don't care to make sure their lights are aimed correctly.
You obviously take more care
Still, they show a better low beam cut off with the H4 as compared to the HID.
It makes a huge difference to on coming drivers if that cut off isn't clean and in the right place.
I'm not saying it's only HID that has this problem either. Most people don't care to make sure their lights are aimed correctly.
You obviously take more care
Last edited by a moderator:
Part of that is the camera artifacts. The cutoff is better seen with the gamma corrected photos that I originally posted, but thejn retaracted and posted the originals for complete disclosure. (maybe I should have stuck wit the retouched?)Good pics!Still, they show a better low beam cut off with the H4 as compared to the HID.
It makes a huge difference to on coming drivers if that cut off isn't clean and in the right place.
I'm not saying it's only HID that has this problem either. Most people don't care to make sure their lights are aimed correctly.
You obviously take more care
In any case, I think that you can see even from the badly exposed photos that the beam pattern is the same, and that was the main point.
FWIW, here is a gamma corrected photor of the HID low beam shot that shows the cutoff is very sharp even using HID.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Looks like he's referring to the lack of light the standard bulbs display above the lowest layer of panels in your garage door. The HIDs have nearly the same direct light cutoff, but the residual light reaches 3/4 of the way up your door.
The corrected picture shows this light even more. However, it is indirect light and should not affect other drivers...I think most peoples' knowledge of light is as good as most peoples' understanding of suspension...and you know how I feel about that.
The corrected picture shows this light even more. However, it is indirect light and should not affect other drivers...I think most peoples' knowledge of light is as good as most peoples' understanding of suspension...and you know how I feel about that.
RaYzerman19
Go Wings!
I've seen many HID conversions on many different bikes....... I'm just guessing all HID kits are not created (designed) equal. As usual, when putting aftermarket stuff on, unless there is some clear 'knowledge' of what works, you pays your money, you takes your chances......
Suspension, ya guilty........ but not apologetic for trying to seek factual info, ha ha.
Suspension, ya guilty........ but not apologetic for trying to seek factual info, ha ha.
Nanahanman
Well-known member
Even with camera artifacts, those pics show a much better light pattern compared to some of the awful ones I see on some cars around here.
You would think that when people see their low beam lights illuminating the freeway overpass, they would figure it out. Oh well....
Too many people drive with the "it's good for me and screw everyone else" attitude.
You would think that when people see their low beam lights illuminating the freeway overpass, they would figure it out. Oh well....
Too many people drive with the "it's good for me and screw everyone else" attitude.
Yes, I agree with that 100%! Around here people do not even take the time to aim their (stock) headlights on cars and trucks. The state safety inspections only ensure that you have high and low beams functioning but they do not check their alignment. (they used to do that in another state I used to live in to the south) I am constantly being dazzled at night by passing cars with one or both headlights aimed too high and then when you flash them they flash you back that they were already on low beams.
That and the *** wipes that insist on riding around with their (also un-aimed) freaking fog lights on all of the time. And yes, I am a man of many peeves...
Take it from me that, in person, the upper cutoff of the HID low beams is every bit as sharp as the Halogen photo shows, I just wasn't able to capture that with my point n' shoot digital camera due to the intensity of the HID light. It really is a ton brighter too.
The bad part of the FJR headlight reflector design is also readily seen in both the halogen and HID high beam photos and that is the lack of light down low when on high beam. I struggled with finding a means to improve that somehow and finally settled on running some aux lights aimed down low.
That and the *** wipes that insist on riding around with their (also un-aimed) freaking fog lights on all of the time. And yes, I am a man of many peeves...
Take it from me that, in person, the upper cutoff of the HID low beams is every bit as sharp as the Halogen photo shows, I just wasn't able to capture that with my point n' shoot digital camera due to the intensity of the HID light. It really is a ton brighter too.
The bad part of the FJR headlight reflector design is also readily seen in both the halogen and HID high beam photos and that is the lack of light down low when on high beam. I struggled with finding a means to improve that somehow and finally settled on running some aux lights aimed down low.
