Little mishap on the way home

[user 10225]

But first, a little history;

After logging a little over 4k miles a few weeks ago in my Houston-Knoxville trip I took the ol' girl in to for her 16k service last Friday. Tech calls me Friday afternoon and tells me it's time to replace both my Michelin Pilot Road tires, says he's got a set of Metzeler ME880's to use. Sure, says I...go ahead and replace them. I have a two-week trip to Banff coming up in August and perhaps I should have waited until then, but the bike was already at the dealer and it would save me from having to bring her back in another month.

Picked her up on Wed and promptly put a good 150 miles on the new tires. Had a performance award that I needed to take care of this morning a bit north of Houston, so I put another 200 miles on before pulling into the parking lot at work.

This evening, on my way home - on a left-hand turn that I've taken a thousand times - I laid her down at about 30mph.

Damage is not so bad, all things considered. Now, I'm not really an ATGATT guy when I'm just riding around town - but you certainly won't ever find me on the bike in anything less than good shoes, jeans, a real jacket, and a helmet. The only two things on my mind as I slid along the street were "Damn that's going to cost me" and "Hold your frakking head up so the helmet doesn't get scratched!!!" Good news is that - as always - the gear did its job and even held up quite nicely..and the X-11 didn't get a single scratch. Not having to replace that bad boy is a damned relief. If you're wondering, the jacket was a Frank Thomas mesh number... great for summer in Houston and apparently impervious to low-speed slides.

However, there are a couple of things I wanted to put out there for those of you who (1.) are more experienced, and (2.) have ridden the ME880's. Yes, I read the available forum literature on the ME880's...albeit a little late to do myself any good.

Comfortable that I had been on the tires long enough by this point that I could start easing lower into the turns to start testing the grip, I decided to attempt a normal lean into a regular left-hand turn at a four-lane/four way stop. I point that out in order to give everyone an idea how much pavement I was dealing with. I took off from the outside lane, shifted into second, and leaned into the turn until I touched the left peg to the pavement - well within ordinary acceptable limits.

Except this time, I felt the back wheel start to give a little and just as I started to concentrate on holding the line with a steady throttle, the back wheel disappeared and I found myself sliding along behind that beautiful blue bike for a bit.

What I would like to tap into the collective wisdom for (yes, I know it's Friday :glare: ) is whether I'm just a fuckin' DUMBASS for trying to take the new tires that low that soon or if this is something I should have expected had I read the forum literature on the ME880's before having them put on. Yes, I know they're a harder composite, yes I know you can't expect them to behave like higher-performance tires at higher speeds... but I would never have thought that dragging a little peg at 30mph would result in a scratched up bike and a bruised ego.

For the TTIWWP crowd:

Oh...and does this qualify me for the Crash Club? :blink:

 

[Daddydukes]

I've been running ME880s on my K1200LT since I took the bike off the show room floor and I have never had any problem with a loss of traction (and I do ride pretty aggressively, often scraping all kinds of parts on the nearly 900 pound bike).

I can only guess that there might have still been some of the release agent on the outside edges of the tires since you hadn't had it at that lean angle before on these new tires. It was obviously worn off of most of the tires since you had put enough miles on them to get that stuff off, but that would be the only thing I can imagine prompted the slide.

Just my .02.

Keith

 

[FJRBluesman]

Bummer to hear and see that. At least you're OK.

Go easy on new tires.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Metzeler ME880's 150 miles

(yes, I know it's Friday :glare: )I'm just a fuckin' DUMBASS I should have expected,had I read the forum literature.

oh...and does this qualify me for the Crash Club? :blink:

Yes, and..... unfortunatly.... Yes

Send odot yer fee's

:jester:

 

[user 10225]

Metzeler ME880's 150 miles

(yes, I know it's Friday :glare: )I'm just a fuckin' DUMBASS I should have expected,had I read the forum literature.

oh...and does this qualify me for the Crash Club? :blink:

Yes, and..... unfortunatly.... Yes

Send odot yer fee's

:jester:

More like 350, but I get your point. I just figured I was ok to start easing onto the sides a bit, since that's about when I started easing into the Michelin's.

 

[RsvlFeej]

Picked her up on Wed and promptly put a good 150 miles on the new tires. Had a performance award that I needed to take care of this morning a bit north of Houston, so I put another 200 miles on before pulling into the parking lot at work.
Yes, I know they're a harder composite, yes I know you can't expect them to behave like higher-performance tires at higher speeds... but I would never have thought that dragging a little peg at 30mph would result in a scratched up bike and a bruised ego.

After 350 miles, there should not have been any residual releasing compound on the tires. Even if you hadn't touched that far down on the sidewalls during the break-in period, getting the tire's temperature up (repeatedly) should have taken care of removing the slippery crap within the first hundred miles or so - certainly within the first 200 miles.

Chalk it up to less stick than you were used to - Personally, I'm not planning to ever go less sticky than Avons or the new Dunlops. I hated the feel of my last set of tires from the day they got spooned on (Pilot Road rear, Diablo Strada front) - never, ever got that warm, fuzzy that those things were gonna be there for me when I really needed the extra grip.

 

[dcarver]

I've read that 'release agents' are nothing more than a theory, and I believe it. With 350 miles on the tires, you must have made a corner or two.. You simply out rode the ME880's traction coefficient. I should go back and re-read, but I bet you lost the rear end first? I only run the 880's when I've got alot of super slab riding in my immediate future. Even then, only run it on the rear, and keep a very sticky front tire in the mix; I'm much more comfortable losing the rear than the front when riding a 700 pound beast.

As always, IMHO, YMMV.

And, most importantly, I'm sorry you went down, but happy you are ok.. the bike can be fixed...

 

[Groo]

Glad to hear your gear worked... you walked away, and the bike only took cosmetic damage.

Just for grins... you might go back to the intersection and see if there's any sign of oil, sand, gravel, or a painted stripe you might have lost traction on, or something else that might have started it... seems odd that on a normal paved road only going 30 MPH that you would have lost the back end. Any idea what the tire pressure was?

 

[SacramentoMike]

I thought that Crash Club was pretty exclusive. Pins, stitches, memory loss, something! Ya mean they just give out them stickers to anybody?

 

[Toecutter]

Ya mean they just give out them stickers to anybody?

No, you have to, uh, crash....

 

[UHOH]

by this point that I could start easing lower into the turns to start testing the grip, ... shifted into second, and leaned into the turn until I touched the left peg to the pavement

well, test result noted.

thanks for writing it up. sorry about your bike.

hmmm, also, is this a concrete road, or tarmac/blacktop?

 

[HotRodZilla]

Glad to hear your gear worked... you walked away, and the bike only took cosmetic damage.
Just for grins... you might go back to the intersection and see if there's any sign of oil, sand, gravel, or a painted stripe you might have lost traction on, or something else that might have started it... seems odd that on a normal paved road only going 30 MPH that you would have lost the back end. Any idea what the tire pressure was?

What Groo said was exactly what I was thinking. I almost never touch pegs in the vicinity of an intersection. They are full of sand and the muck that is leaking out of people's cars.

Also...I recently replaced the tires on my FJR. At about 150 miles, I was feeling pretty confident on them and gassed it coming out of a large parking lot. The rear slid out a little, and I didn't think I had given it enough that it should have. The next day, I took the bike to our local canyon and rode the shit out of it. Scrubbed the tires in real good, all they way out to the edges. I haven't had a repeat of that rear slide. As Dcarver said, I think the days of release agents is over, but new rubber doesn't seem to stick as well as rubber that is a little worn in. Maybe a combination of things just hosed you. Sorry for your get-off, but glad your ok...

 

[madmike2]

Ya mean they just give out them stickers to anybody?

No, you have to, uh, crash....

Yeah! You get them the old fashioned way...you have to EARN them.

AND, they don't "give them away"........you go here and select one to add to your signature line.

 

[user 10225]

Just for grins... you might go back to the intersection and see if there's any sign of oil, sand, gravel, or a painted stripe you might have lost traction on, or something else that might have started it... seems odd that on a normal paved road only going 30 MPH that you would have lost the back end. Any idea what the tire pressure was?

Checked that as soon as I pulled the bike out of the ditch and out of the way. I stay away from the painted lines regardless, so that wasn't it; and there was no oil, gravel, or patch of sand.

HotRodZilla -

I guess it's the edges that are in question, really - I got to the edge of the tire a lot sooner than expected. Now I'm a bit nervous about the upcoming trip to Banff. If I've got a tire that kicks ass on the super-slab but not so much in the peg-dragging turns then I don't think I want to roll with these tires. If it does this at 30 then what's it gonna do at 60?

I read JeffAshe's write up on the tire, and he didn't have a problem in the turns...although he did state the tire had a tendency to give more than we like in the deep turns, but that it was manageable. I wonder if I even want to deal with it.

 

[madmike2]

IIRC, isn't this tire a bit smaller than OEM. That would affect the profile and how quickly the tire gets "on the edge".

 

[Toecutter]

Just for grins... you might go back to the intersection and see if there's any sign of oil, sand, gravel, or a painted stripe you might have lost traction on, or something else that might have started it... seems odd that on a normal paved road only going 30 MPH that you would have lost the back end. Any idea what the tire pressure was?

Checked that as soon as I pulled the bike out of the ditch and out of the way. I stay away from the painted lines regardless, so that wasn't it; and there was no oil, gravel, or patch of sand.

Were the tires good and warm at the time, or was it early on in the ride home from work?

If I've got a tire that kicks ass on the super-slab but not so much in the peg-dragging turns then I don't think I want to roll with these tires. If it does this at 30 then what's it gonna do at 60?

JMHO, but I'm not the slowest guy around, and I haven't dragged a peg in over two years, thanks to Lee Parks. Riding that close to the edge on the street is a bit more than I want to bite off.

 

[user 10225]

IIRC, isn't this tire a bit smaller than OEM. That would affect the profile and how quickly the tire gets "on the edge".

Not sure if it's smaller than OEM, but it's smaller than the Pilots that I had on there previously. The Pilots were 180, these are 170. And you're right.

I think the problem I'm having is that I felt there should have been more tire. I knew how much lean I had left on the Pilots when my pegs started dragging, and I made a conscious effort not to lean deeper into the turn once I touched the pegs on these new tires because I didn't know where the edge was yet. Now I know.

I just called the dealer and told the service guy that I put about 300 miles on the new Metzelers and I don't think I like 'em. He asked why, I gave him the story. He said changing the tires out would not be an issue - so now I need to figure out what I want to put on there. I could always go back to the Pilots, I suppose.

Now I just need to figure out how much the replacement parts are going to cost...I'll make the repairs myself.

 

[user 10225]

Were the tires good and warm at the time, or was it early on in the ride home from work?

They were warm - it was about 5 miles into the ride home.

JMHO, but I'm not the slowest guy around, and I haven't dragged a peg in over two years, thanks to Lee Parks. Riding that close to the edge on the street is a bit more than I want to bite off.

And maybe that's one of the real takeaway's from this experience. However, I'm certainly happy that it happened here at home rather than on a longer trip. Not sure if you're making a distinction between surface streets and open road...are you?

I'm certainly a believer in not pushing the rider or the bike well past their comfort zone out on the street; and that's not what I was doing. Maybe I need to adjust where that line is a little, eh?

Frame sliders... must go purchase frame sliders...

 

[Av8rider]

JMHO, but I'm not the slowest guy around, and I haven't dragged a peg in over two years, thanks to Lee Parks. Riding that close to the edge on the street is a bit more than I want to bite off.

Sure glad to hear someone else say this. I've only had my '08 for about three weeks and I enjoy riding this bike but I really don't have any desire to "scape" the foot pegs.

If I feel the need for speed I ride the Fj to the airport and go flying. This is a great bike and I'm sure that it handles well, I'm just past the point in my life of wanting to test it. I bet for those who do, I can't imagine that this bike would disappoint you.

I'm flying from California to Montana today and will be there for a week. I love flying but I already miss riding my FJR, what can I say "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

Sorry to hear about your accident and thank you for sharing your experience. As a new FJR owner it helps me get a better appreciation for things to be aware of as I ride the crap out of it.

The damage looks to be mostly cosmetic, would sliders have made much of a difference in this accident? Did you have the saddle bags on and if so were they damaged? Do you have any pictures of your jacket? I'm curious how well your clothing hold up. I have a mesh jacket and others have posted pictures where the jacket had little effect on what appeared to be a lessor accident.

I hope you get it repaired quickly, and take that trip.