Local dealer no longer selling 20w-40 oil

[user 28727]

I stopped by my local dealer in Frederick, MD to get oil and filter and was told Yamaha no longer makes or recommends 20w-40 oil for the FJR.

The guy told me that 10w-40 is all that Yamaha is now recommending and they will no longer make the 20w-40 oil. I don't mind using this for my winter riding but it sure sounds like BS to me. Has anyone else heard about this?

Thanks,

Keith

Its true.

It was phased out within the last year or so. 10W40 would be the logical replacement spec since it would have the same properties at high temps, and would favorable properties at lower temps compared to the 20W40.

I asked Gerald at D&H about this last summer. At first he thought it was still available, but when he checked, he said it wasn't.

I just bought a new 2012FJR on July 30 2012, and I do not understand why 20w-40 is still listed in the owners manual as the recommended oil. Looks to me like this has been going on for 4-5 years. I think it would be hard to sell something that isn't made any more. 2 different dealers told me to run 10w-40. So I called Yamaha customer service and after providing info I was put on hold, and after too long on hold for me, I hung up without an answer--16 minute phone call. I wanted them to send me in writing that my warranty would still be valid if I ran 10w-40.

 

[TouringRider]

My owner’ manual say 20W-40 or 20W-50 so I use the 20W-50. If the engineers that built the engine recommends 20W- grade, I follow their recommendations.

 

[user 28727]

My owner’ manual say 20W-40 or 20W-50 so I use the 20W-50. If the engineers that built the engine recommends 20W- grade, I follow their recommendations.

Yes, that is what mine also states. What are we going to use when the temps go lower than the chart???

kup1236

 

[ionbeam]

Back in '08 when this thread started there was some confusion because everyone knew that the owners manual called for 20-40W and it suddenly became unavailable. Now, 4 years later people have gotten used to the concept that something other than 20-40W can be used. Strange, it is the same motor that came to the USA 9 years ago and then it was the end of the world if you used anything but Yamalube 20-40W. And then, suddenly it became OK to use both 10-40W AND 20-50W oil. If you look in the owners manual it shows that you should use 10-40W down to 10 degrees F.

 

[wfooshee]

Um, guys??? Four-year-old thread??? OP's probably got it figured by now......

 

[user 28727]

Back in '08 when this thread started there was some confusion because everyone knew that the owners manual called for 20-40W and it suddenly became unavailable. Now, 4 years later people have gotten used to the concept that something other than 20-40W can be used. Strange, it is the same motor that came to the USA 9 years ago and then it was the end of the world if you used anything but Yamalube 20-40W. And then, suddenly it became OK to use both 10-40W AND 20-50W oil. If you look in the owners manual it shows that you should use 10-40W down to 10 degrees F.

Our manuals do not list 10w-40, and our charts go down to 50 degrees F or 10 degrees C

kup1236

 

[Fred W]

Um, guys??? Four-year-old thread??? OP's probably got it figured by now......

Yeah, new guy found it 'cause he did what we told him to do and searched for an answer.

As for multiviscosity oil weight ratings, there is always a great deal of confusion about these things...

The first weight number is nearly meaningless to us as murdercycle riders. The second one is far more significant.

The first number indicates what the viscosity of the oil is compared to a straight weight oil (in centistoke ranges) when both oils are stone cold. It matters (a little bit) when you first start the engine, moreso if you live in the wilds of Alaska, and make a lot of short trips, I suppose.

The second number indicates the same thing, but at operating temperature. This is where your engine lives most of its adult life. It will be where the vast majority of its wear occurs. It should be very important to you and the design engineers. And yet...

Yamaha has seen fit over the years to recommend oils varying from 20W40 to 20W50 varying the second number (but not the first). Why? :huh:

The answer is that Yamaha switched suppliers of their (rebranded) oils a few years ago. And now they can't get the (even then somewhat rare) 20W40 that they insisted was crucial to your bike (and its warranty). So now, instead of (intuitively) recommending something else in the xxW40 range, they recommend their own label of 20W50.

This goes against my better judgement. These sound more like marketing decisions than engineering ones to me. I know this is not life or death, aftrerall we are just talking about (arguably the most talked about subject on the intarwebs) motor oil. But... if the design engineers determinesd that a xxW40 oil was optimum back when this engine was designed, and FWIW the engine is the same lump it was back in '01-'02 when it was designed, then why not use an xxW40 oil in it now?

Where the hell is Jestel when you need him?

 

[ionbeam]

Our manuals do not list 10w-40, and our charts go down to 50 degrees F or 10 degrees C

The FSM is deficient, but the OWNERS manual has the goods.

...Where the hell is Jestel when you need him?

Oh shite, not another oil thread :lol:

 

[FJReady]

So when is my bike going to blow up? It's been lubed with 5W-40 or 15W-40 diesel engine oil for over 80,000 miles ferchrissake.

 

[TouringRider]

Yes, that is what mine also states. What are we going to use when the temps go lower than the chart???

kup1236

Stay home. :lol:

 

[HotRodZilla]

You guys that insist on following the manual word for word in an effort to maintain your warranty, please dont forget:

TB Sync every oil change.

Make sure those rear suspension pivots get greased and re-greased every few thousand.

You can only run Yamalube's special very expensive gear oil in some bikes, but other types of gear lube in others...Even though all the final drives are the same.

Only run air pressures in the mid-30's

And most importantly, don't forget that you need to rebuild the entire brake system every 2 years.

I know there's prolly something I forgot, but you should get the idea. Sometimes the recommendations are only their to assist in the company's income, or keep a lawyer happy.

There is nothing special about Yamaha's recommended oil weights, except they had their name on it. I know for a fact that my dealer that was doing my services eventually ran out of 20-50 and started using 10-40...Gasp!!

10-40 will not hurt your bike, and using it won't void your warranty.

I swear...stress less, ride more!!

 

[Fred W]

So when is my bike going to blow up? It's been lubed with 5W-40 or 15W-40 diesel engine oil for over 80,000 miles ferchrissake.

There is nothing special about Yamaha's recommended oil weights, except they had their name on it. I know for a fact that my dealer that was doing my services eventually ran out of 20-50 and started using 10-40...Gasp!!

10-40 will not hurt your bike, and using it won't void your warranty.

If you read (and believed any of) my post above, both of you guys are doing the right thing. 0W40, 5W40, 10W40, 15W40, 20W40... all would be good choices, IMO, because they are 40 weight oils (at operating temps). The engine was originally specified and designed for an xxW40 oil, and the design has never been substantially changed. My theory conjecture opinion is that Yamaha simply changed the recomendation based on what YamaLube stuff they were pedaling at the time. And they probably did NEW owners a disservice by specing a xxW50 weight oil in later 2nd Gen owners documents.

Will using a slightly heavier weight oil cause acute engine failures? No. But on a brand new engine with relatively tight tolerances, using too heavy of an oil could allow some degree of accelerated (chronic) wear due to reduced oil flow. With older engines that have already experienced wear and loosening of bearing tolerances, it may actually be preferable to run oil one grade heavier.

However, there is one reason not to use conventional 10W40 motor oils. The amount and type of viscosity modifiers required to give a conventional base oil the relative thinness of a 10W oil when cold and thickness of a 40W oil when hot are subject to shearing under high pressure loads, like those found with meshed gears (motorcycle gearbox). This has the effect of degrading both the first and the second number weight of the oil after some amount of use. So the 10W40 you put in the crankcase becomes a 5W30 after a couple of thousand miles. Will your engine explode? No. Will wear accelerate? Probably.

Synthetic oils can achieve large weight spreads, even 0W40 spread without use of these same viscosity modifiers, as the base oil itself is able to achieve those results due to its molecular structure. Remember the multivis weight rating of any oil (conventional or synthetic) is as compared to a conventional straight weight oil. Many people who care about such things shy away from conventional oils with big multivis weight spreads even for automotive use, where the gearbox is always lubed separately.

So, if you accept the above explanation, then you should also see that the original Yamalube 20W40 was a good choice for a conventional oil as it had a lower spread, used a heavier base stock and much less of the viscosity improvers, and was therefore less apt to degrade with use. But you don't see many 20W40 oils around anymore, which is why so many FJR owners have chosen to either use 15W40 conventional oil (usually designated for diesel engine use), which is readily available, or some flavor of xxW40 synthetic.

Is this going to make a big difference to your, or your bike's, life? Absolutely not.

But if you are trying to do "the right thing" and it costs the same (or less in most cases) to do that, then why the heck not?

 

[mferriter]

Wait....you have to put oil in this thing?

 

[Afast03nNJ]

Huh?

 

[wheatonFJR]

Dangit...this thread just doesn't seem right without jestal's input.

 

[dcarver]

Agreed.

 

[Bustanut joker]

My ballz itch. :blink:

 

[kaitsdad]

My ballz itch. :blink:

scratch.

 

[phroenips]

However, there is one reason not to use conventional 10W40 motor oils. The amount and type of viscosity modifiers required to give a conventional base oil the relative thinness of a 10W oil when cold and thickness of a 40W oil when hot are subject to shearing under high pressure loads, like those found with meshed gears (motorcycle gearbox). This has the effect of degrading both the first and the second number weight of the oil after some amount of use. So the 10W40 you put in the crankcase becomes a 5W30 after a couple of thousand miles. Will your engine explode? No. Will wear accelerate? Probably.

I've sent in several oil samples to be analyzed by Blackstone Labratories, and for both of our FJRs, the trend seems to be that some shearing occurs on both oil weights we've used (10W40 and 20W50). For Colorado anyway, it seems best to use 20W50 in the summer and go back down to 10W40 in the winter. That's what we've been doing and according to the oil analysis trend, wear patterns look good (with a 5-6000 mile change interval)

 

[Fontanaman]

My ballz itch. :blink:

Try this: