Modify ES settings?

[DocFJR]

Now that the FJR (ES) can adjust suspension settings via the firmware, I wonder if there is any additional range available that is either hidden in a diagnostic menu or might be available via future Power Commander type devices. Obviously, programming can't assess hardware that isn't already there, but Yamaha might have left some additional range as a margin. Or perhaps future FJRs will widen the range to include much firmer "Hard" settings. At the least, I'd love to see a setting firmer than the Hard +3 we have now (my opinion only). A setting or two that is just a little too firm for all but the most aggressive riding would be great. The entire range of available settings on my ES feels like 21 levels between soft and medium.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I don't have an ES but I'm gathering by the comments I read, many are using settings harder than the labels indicate..... e.g., a two-up setting where one would expect a one-up. I'll just speculate the spring on the rear shock is a bit inadequate for the heavier or aggressive rider. On the ES, I believe it is back to similar spring weight as in GenII (690 lbs or thereabouts), whereas the A got a ~900 spring. I couldn't quite understand why Yammy would do that, but...... I'm sure other ES owners will chime in to agree or disagree. Perhaps it's time to ask the Cogents, RaceTech's, etc. if they can refit a higher rate spring, do rebuilds, etc.

 

[escapefjrtist]

At least one suspension shop has offered any ES owner a 50% discount on upgrades for letting the shop use the bike for development work. Other than the FSM, information is somewhat limited on the package.

Traxxion might be a shop to reach out to and see if they have any interest in tweaking the ES or...making a good package, better.

Good luck!

--G

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Are you simply adjusting the dampening via the menu or are you also adjusting the spring preload? Those are two completely separate functions. The damping control is adjustable on the fly, the bike must be stationary for the preload menu to be accessible.

I would think, although I do not know, that the menu functions are taking up the full range of mechanical adjustment available. Changing software cannot help if all the adjustment is already being used.

I personally suggest bumping the preload up. When I want to get serious with mine in the curves I go to 1helmet + luggage, then bump the damping to Hard +3. Of course I only weigh about 210 in my full gear.

 

[DocFJR]

I don't have an ES but I'm gathering by the comments I read, many are using settings harder than the labels indicate..... e.g., a two-up setting where one would expect a one-up.

@RaYzerman19: you're indicating the selectable levels of preload, which is a separate parameter (and I find the preload works great; well worth the price of admission). The 21 levels I referred to adjusts the compression and dampening settings.

 

[DocFJR]

Are you simply adjusting the dampening via the menu or are you also adjusting the spring preload?

You are correct, Redfish, I was not intending to indicate the preload, which I find are quite useful. Thanks for the suggestion about upping preload setting. I normally keep it in single rider w/bags (I'm about 180 fully geared up). Maybe upping it to two riders might help.

 

[Uncle Hud]

RaYzerman19 posted: <snip> I don't have an ES but I'm gathering by the comments I read, many are using settings harder than the labels indicate..... e.g., a two-up setting where one would expect a one-up.

Actually, I think you're right. I have my preload set at 1-up & luggage, hard, +2, but that's because I want extra-stiff suspension for city riding: potholes, pavement joints, slippery road striping, and sharp turns at intersections.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Okay, my suggestion and everybody does their own thing.

When I am commuting, running errands, just general use, I keep the preload on 1 rider and the damping on standard. If I am going to spend time on the interstate I drop the damping to the softest setting.

When I get to the curvy stuff, I bump the preload to 1 rider and luggage. This actually increases ground clearance slightly but it increases cornering clearance because the rear spring does not squish as far under cornering forces. I also increase the damping because it just works better with the stiffer spring compression.

Doubtless someone will come along and say that my terminology is incorrect or that I do not know what I am talking about but that is what works for me.

I hope that MCride007 or Fred W come along and contribute to this thread because even though they will probably disagree with me, they know far more about this suspension than I do.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Preload is a back door way to change the ride height, clearance, and steering quickness but it doesn't change the spring rate, how much the spring compresses under cornering forces, or total amount the spring is compressed after the riders weight is added.

There is an assumption that the rider will add preload as weight is increased (to maintain ride height) so the ES increases damping to compensate for the increased spring compression (and energy) that will result from the additional weight. How much the damping is increased is anyone's guess but I think there is probably a 2-3X difference between solo soft -3 and 2-up hard +3 but that isn't as much change as it sounds.

If you want to increase damping then going with a higher preload setting is the way to do it as long as you don't mind the additional ride height in the back and the decreased amount of available negative spring travel.

Another way to increase damping is to use a heavier weight oil or increase the gas pressure...once we find a suspension shop to rebuild the shock...but doing either will change the entire damping curve.

 

[Uncle Hud]

^^^^^^^^ Allen_C taught me about preload vs. ride height, especially if you take off the side cases full of **** you brought to Hooterville. (Thanks, man!)

It comes in handy when you're bouncing through potholes and road construction sites.

 

[art miller]

Okay, my suggestion and everybody does their own thing.
When I am commuting, running errands, just general use, I keep the preload on 1 rider and the damping on standard. If I am going to spend time on the interstate I drop the damping to the softest setting.

When I get to the curvy stuff, I bump the preload to 1 rider and luggage. This actually increases ground clearance slightly but it increases cornering clearance because the rear spring does not squish as far under cornering forces. I also increase the damping because it just works better with the stiffer spring compression.

Doubtless someone will come along and say that my terminology is incorrect or that I do not know what I am talking about but that is what works for me.

I hope that MCride007 or Fred W come along and contribute to this thread because even though they will probably disagree with me, they know far more about this suspension than I do.

You make some very good points. I think the ES suspension is pretty well presented to accommodate most rider's needs. I'm a light weight at 145lbs so there is no issue with not being able to get the ride stiff enough. I suspect the suspension designers/engineers prepared the set up for an average rider weight of about 175-180lbs.

 

[Fred W]

Preload is ride height and ride height is preload; they are synonymous. The suspension compliance does not change when you just increase the rear spring preload...

...except on the FJR1300 ES. The nine select-able damping settings are different for each of the 4 select-able rear preload settings.

Below is a graphic display of their relationships.

 

[dcarver]

fancy shamcy...

 

[DocFJR]

Below is a graphic display of their relationships.

Nice. Is that graph from Yamaha? It indicates that there are more than 21 total levels of dampening, but access to presets at the extremes is dependent on preload. That's very cool; I had thought that all the preload presets shared the same 21.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that the settings were simultaneously modifying both compression and rebound dampening. Do you know if that is the case? The user obviously has no separate control over the two, but it seems unlikely they wouldn't address both. Wish list: user access to the separate compression and rebound settings. That might be possible in later models (or firmware builds).

 

[MCRIDER007]

The problem with that chart is that it doesn't really tell you anything about the relative damping change from soft to hard (is the difference 10% or 100%), it only shows a relative overlap between the various preload settings.....but the graphs are too neat and don't reflect the big change in preload between solo and luggage to 2-up. I would think the engineers who designed the system would assume a 20-30 lb weight increase when luggage is added but 125-150 lb increase for a passenger and the damping changes should reflect those weight changes.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Even though I don't have an ES, I feel like I learn something everytime a thread comes up. Of course, 6 months later I've forgotten it all.

 

[DocFJR]

On reflection, the I see the graph ties the center of each dampening setting between the preload levels with dashed lines. Maybe that means the centers of the dampening settings are really the same between the preload presets, and the only reason for the horizontal staggering is to indicate differences in ride height. If so, the graph is misleading, but the claimed "21 levels" of dampening would be correct. I'll have to take her out for a spin and see if the preload changes the dampening at the +3 level. As it is, I'm in "one-rider with bags" preload and "Hard +3" all the time (wishing it could get firmer).

 

[Fred W]

Nice. Is that graph from Yamaha?

Yes. I got it from someone at Yamaha. I've never seen it published anywhere else.

It indicates that there are more than 21 total levels of dampening, but access to presets at the extremes is dependent on preload. That's very cool; I had thought that all the preload presets shared the same 21.

My take is that it is not the same 21 shared damping selections. In fact, if you look at the chart it indicates that, for example, the upper couple of damping settings in the "Soft" range overlap the lower settings in the "Normal" for a particular preload value. So there aren't really 21 unique damping settings in any one preload.

Just by eyeball it looks like 2 of 7 overlap on each of the three (Soft, Normal, Hard) which would mean that there would actually be only 13 unique levels within a preload value. Then changing the preload only appears to shift those 13 values up (or down) by three (or 4 for the 2-up increment) settings per preload setting, so that would mean that there would be 22 or 23 total unique damping values.

How accurate that graph is would be anyone's guess. It is pretty slick looking, which makes me think it was from marketing and not engineering.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that the settings were simultaneously modifying both compression and rebound dampening. Do you know if that is the case?

Yes, that is definitely true. There are three stepper motors. One on top of each fork leg. One leg handles compression, the other handles rebound. The 3rd motor is on the top of the rear shock. It ostensibly adjusts what we have come to call the "rebound clicker" on a manually adjusted shock, but many people feel that adjustment really affects both rebound and compression fluid circuits in the shock.

 

[Fred W]

The problem with that chart is that it doesn't really tell you anything about the relative damping change from soft to hard (is the difference 10% or 100%), it only shows a relative overlap between the various preload settings.....but the graphs are too neat and don't reflect the big change in preload between solo and luggage to 2-up. I would think the engineers who designed the system would assume a 20-30 lb weight increase when luggage is added but 125-150 lb increase for a passenger and the damping changes should reflect those weight changes.

Actually, there is some indication of that in that the difference between the 1up+bags to 2up damping ranges, the damping shifts more than in the other 2 steps. I don't think the graph is supposed to indicate anything about the spring preload differences.