Modular (Flip Up) Helmet Concern

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Drew

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I got this link at work today, discussing failure of the chin bar on the Sy-Max II. I have an HJC modular, but don't think it's the Sy-Max II version. Anyway, FYI.

Mods, if this needs to go in another forum, feel free to move, I wasn't sure where to post.

Sy-Max II Failure Article

 
Interesting article. I'm going home tonight and check my wife's Shoei. I've never considered a flip up as in all the wrecks I've had I seem to always end up on my face. Full face solid chin bar for me

 
Interesting, I have a Sy-max II and my original one had a latch failure in the first month. The dealer replaced it without question, since then my flip up latch has performed flawlessly but since I ride offroad with it alot I've have the screws on the side where the chinbar attaches vibrate out. I've replaced them with loctite and have had no further problems.

I will be opening it up soon and looking inside after reading that article.

Thanks for the post.

Ed

 
Only 50 hours till friday..

Good Gawd!! An to think I road twenty five plus years with a open face helmet..and with little more than a thin slice of lexan protecting me mug..

You guys worry too much about nothin..

 
Mine's an IS-MAX (HJC's mid-priced flip helmet) and with a quick look appears to have the same type of latching mechanism. I'll have to check it more closely soon.

 
Nolan's latches and hinges are all metal. I always thought that was a good thing.

In the big scheme of things, I've thought of modulars as falling between full faced and 3/4 helmets. If I'll wear a 3/4 but not a full, then a modular helmet is bound to give at least some small advantage over that.

Some people won't wear mesh jackets. I do when commuting in this heat wave. Otherwise I'd be wearing jeans and a t-shirt. The mesh may not be as good as higher-tiered gear but it's better than no jacket at all.

 
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Below is quite a number of years old...I won't wear anything besides a flip...went from Fulmer to current IS-Max

My rule has always been to "just wear a proper fitting helmet" and "let it be"

https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Helmets.html

<Anybody know what helmet Brodie was wearing when he invaded that pickup's cab???>

I have never owned one of these new flip-open helmets, most notably the HJC, Nolan, and Schuberth. None of the flip-open helmets have been submitted to Snell for testing. I now believe this is because the manufacturers know that the helmets will fail the test. I have heard several stories now about people crashing in flip-open helmets and getting eye socket damage and concussions - in one case, a personal friend of mine. My friend had what seemed to be a relatively minor side impact on his head - the helmet was barely scarred at all. However, at the hospital he fell into a coma for three days, and was confused for another couple of weeks. He required two surgerys to repair his eye sockets so that his eyes would stay in his head. Frankly, his story really shook me up and I started investigating these helmets much more closely. I was not impressed with what I learned.

The shell of the flip-open helmets apparently work just fine. I have no indication that these helmets tend to open in a crash and expose your face. However, the hinge mechanism in flip-open helmets takes up space that in any other helmet would be shock- absorbing EPS styrofoam protecting your temples. The hinge mechanism intrudes into the impact-absorbing liner in the temple area. If you hit the side of your head on the ground (quite common in a fall) the hinge mechanism can hit your temple hard enough to break your skull. As they say in Ghostbusters, this would be bad.

I spoke at length with the people at the Snell institute about this topic (7/04). They have never had a flip-open helmet submitted to them for certification, and therefore have never tested one, nor have they paid much attention to them. They found my statement, that flip-open helmets can cause temple damage, quite interesting. I learned from them that essentially all helmet manufacturers have in-house testing facilities and do a very good job of this. They named three companies in particular who do a superlative job; all three make flip-open helmets. I was told that the manufacturers can perform the Snell certification tests just as well as Snell can, so they know well in advance if they are going to pass.

Snell and DOT testing is performed with a magnesium dummy head in the helmet. The magnesium head has one accelerometer located at the center of gravity. This means the accelerometer cannot test for twisting forces, and it can only record the average impact force on the head, the force averaged over the entire surface of the magnesium head. There is no way this device could record a sharp impact on a small area, such as might occur if the hard plastic hinge mechanism hit the magnesium skull. The Snell and DOT tests have separate tests for the shell, to see that they resist penetration by sharp objects. The tests are not designed to record if a small hard object already inside the shell hits your head. So, it turns out that Snell and DOT tests are not very sensitive to an impact from a hinge mechanism.

None the less, it's interesting that only one of the flip-open helmets have ever been submitted to Snell for independent testing. Some of the companies that make these helmets pay to have essentially all of their other street helmets certified, but not the flip-open in particular. I find this exceedingly suspicious. There is one Snell-certified modular helmet now (5/10), the Zeus 3000. If you must have a modular, this is the one.

I recommend you avoid flip-open helmets if safety is a concern. Side impacts to your head are quite common in motorcycle accidents. The temple area is the weakest part of the skull. Injury to the temple area can cause substantial brain damage and substantial vision impairment. If you have a side impact in a crash I believe flip-open helmets will likely cause temple fractures and concussions far in excess of what you would have from a full-face or open-face Snell helmet. I believe you're safer in an open-face helmet than in a flip-open.

Update 8/07: I continue to receive emails from riders who have had temple damage while wearing flip-open helmets. It seems perhaps there is a particular brand that has this problem; none the less I stand by my position that the convenience of the flip-opens is not worth the risk of eye socket damage, concussion, and multiple surgeries.

 
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To each his own.

I say screw those flip-ups! I'd never wear a 3/4 either so I guess that makes my choice obvious. I have heard 2 first hand accounts of those things coming open during a get off, one a Multi-Tec, the other I don't know. All it took for me was to hear of the first one. The guy paid dearly for occurrence.

Full face Arai for this chump.

 
I went with a modular for convenience to some degree as I wore glasses when I purchased my HJC (I've since had lasik), and it was much easier to get my glasses on with the modular than a regular full faced helmet. I don't have that issue now, just the need to put sunglasses on. I imagine I'll be looking at helmets in the spring, so a decision will need to be made. Since getting a modular, I was always curious of the safety factor.

 
To each his own.

I say screw those flip-ups! I'd never wear a 3/4 either so I guess that makes my choice obvious.
Too each his own is correct. If your a 100% AGATT believer then it will be a standard fullface for sure. I personally find fullface helmets somewhat claustrophobic and cumbersome and so I've been using a Scorpion EX0-200 3/4 helmet with full face shield for several years. I love it! I also wear glasses and it is easier to deal with than a fullface type helmet. While it would not give me the full protection in a face first fall that the fullface does, I prefer the better air flow and ability to flip up the face shield and talk or take a drink from a bottle of water without having to remove my helmet. I assume that's why the modular style helmets are so popular as well these days & the prices have come down overall for these helmets from a few years ago. We all make personal decisions based on comfort & safety in our riding gear.

It's all a matter of preference and personal taste.

 
I went with a modular for convenience to some degree as I wore glasses when I purchased my HJC (I've since had lasik), and it was much easier to get my glasses on with the modular than a regular full faced helmet. I don't have that issue now, just the need to put sunglasses on. I imagine I'll be looking at helmets in the spring, so a decision will need to be made. Since getting a modular, I was always curious of the safety factor.
which will happen sooner? a need for another new helmet or your eyes changing enough to have to start wearing glasses again?

 
I went out shopping for a Multi-Tec and ran across the Scorpion EXO-900. Had never even had my hands on a Scorpion, but after trying it on and walking around the shop for a bit, I was surprised at how well it fit. Ended up purchasing it after reading a few reviews on my mobile phone. I'm very pleased with the helmet. I wear earplugs and I think it's even more quite than my HJC FS-15 Carbon and my Suomy Apex. Transforms into a 3/4 helmet which I think is cool, but a feature I probably will never use. Who knows... another summer like this one, I might actually consider switching it into that mode at times! :rolleyes: At any rate... anyone in the market for a flip should consider the EXO-900.

 
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which will happen sooner? a need for another new helmet or your eyes changing enough to have to start wearing glasses again?
'Need' for a new helmet may not be for a while, more like a preference maybe. My distance vision shouldn't be an issue, I can get lasik adjustments as needed to keep me at 20/20 or close but I still have to wear reading/computer glasses regardless. I was screwed near and far before Lasik, now it's just near. My eyes will change, can't help it, that comes with age.

 
which will happen sooner? a need for another new helmet or your eyes changing enough to have to start wearing glasses again?
'Need' for a new helmet may not be for a while, more like a preference maybe. My distance vision shouldn't be an issue, I can get lasik adjustments as needed to keep me at 20/20 or close but I still have to wear reading/computer glasses regardless. I was screwed near and far before Lasik, now it's just near. My eyes will change, can't help it, that comes with age.
can't see the speedo ! :yahoo:

 
There is one Snell approved that I know of.

Bell

And another

Zeus
The Bell appears to be only DOT, but (at least from the marketing info) the Zeus does appear to be Snell approved.

That said, there are many 3/4 helmets that are Snell approved. I don't think they do any face-plant testing at Snell. Just head bonking.

 
Buy into whichever school you want. Some say Snell is the only way. Others say Snell is "too hard" as a result of how the tests are done (more brain momentum during an impact).

 
Thanks for the info Drew. Read the article and decided it was a good time to check my Sy-max II. Sure enough two of the plastic pieces were broken. I have had this helmet for just over year. It is now junk. From looking at the construction, what a joke! Glad I never crashed because I don't think this helmet would have offered me the protection I was expecting. Now I am shopping for another helmet. I like the modular style but if other manafactures build them as HJC has, maybe I am better off with a full face (Snell approved). That is the last HJC I will ever own.

If you own Sy-MaxII and have difficulty opening the chin piece, chances are you have a broken helmet.

G.

 
EditedCrashedhelmet3.jpg


You won't find me wearing anything other than a full coverage!

 
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