motorcyclist speeder charged with manslaughter

[Fencer]

It is an interesting point of conversation. It seems that a lot of the east coast jurisdictions do not engage in chases, or severly limit them. Out on the west coast, it seems just the opposite. LAPD and CHP lead the state in the amount of chases that are done.

Crazy west coast cops.

No hard feelings there Ricky - just a difference of opinion.

No worries...

Rick

FJRFencer,

I never claimed nor said that I was prefect, nor did I ever mention that I don't break the speed limit. However, lately, with gas prices the way they are, $3.35 a gallon for regular, my truck goes 60 mph in the slow lane. The motorcycle doesn't go much faster than that anymore either.

Rick

Rick, I did not mean for that to sound like an attack on you, more rhetorical.

Cops are Humans, Humans screw-up, make poor decisions, etc. I was just trying to point to the flaw in the "legally bound" idea

See this part from above-

Do they deserve a break for their thankless job? you betcha!

 

[sparky3008]

2 Things.

First I am not bashing cops, I am bashing one portion of their job that personally I find a bit unnecessary.

Stopping a bank robber or murderer is one thing but stopping someone on these highways today doing 72 or so in a 55 in my opinion is ridiculous. Everyone does it including the cops and the penalty for that speed is outrageous.

2nd Jestal was mentioning creating hazards for the cop and the civilian.

The other day I was stopped and the cop left the scene way before I did and just asked me to be careful getting back into traffic. Let me tell ya, if he hadn't just let me off of the ticket I would have given him a piece of my mind. I tried going to the slow lane shoulder just for this reason but he forced me to the fast lane shoulder.

******. Luckily I have a fast bike but it really was not a good decision in my opinion. He simply didn't want to get out of his car on the traffic side. Glad he thought of himself...

I appreciate the job that cops do and I am usually very respectful to them and know they are under appreciated. My mom has been one for almost 30 years. But, again this portion of their job I don't agree with much of it.

Tickets are revenue not a prevention or penalty of a crime.

The insurance hike is the real penalty.

 

[motorgod]

Who do you really think you are serving by chasing down a speeder? I will start with speeding. It seems officers think they are saving the world by stopping speed violaters. IMHO traffic stops are revenue nothing more.

Do you live on a city street? is there a street in front of your house? If so, please give us your address so that all of us can do burn outs, wheelies, stoppies, side shows, and every other traffic related violation in front of your house. Because YOU WILL NOT COMPLAIN since YOU DO NOT SEEM THE TYPE TO WANT TO HELP THE REVENUERS GENERATE MORE REVENUE!

Patiently waiting for your response.

 

[motorgod]

But say one thing about an ethnic group or make a political remark.....watch what happens. Seems it is okay to bash certain groups.

With that, whats up with these f**kin truckers? they drive all night, they all take some type of stimulant (crank), and drive 80000 lbs weapons of mass destruction. All of their rigs are POS. How come no one takes them off the road at night when they should be sleeping?

 

[madmike2]

But say one thing about an ethnic group or make a political remark.....watch what happens. Seems it is okay to bash certain groups.With that, whats up with these f**kin truckers? they drive all night, they all take some type of stimulant (crank), and drive 80000 lbs weapons of mass destruction. All of their rigs are POS. How come no one takes them off the road at night when they should be sleeping?

And while we're at it, let's limit which hours they can make deliveries---nothing downtown during commute hours or lunchtime. So, city deliveries 1000-1200 and 1300-1500. That'll reduce the congestion. And no trucks allowed on the highway during commute times, so, in metropolitan areas there will be no trucks on the road from 0600-0900 and 1500-1900. That'll make everyone more safe, huh. And think of the fun the LEOs can have enforcing that. Of course, without any towtrucks allowed on the road it'll be hard to move wrecked vehicles....oh, wait a minute, there won't be any accidents with no trucks on the road, huh!

Geez, motorgod, we all realize there are bad cops and good cops, same with managers, warehouse workers, lawyers( maybe), judges (graduated lawyers), retailers, service station attendants, truck drivers, Yamaha dealers, etc., etc., etc.

The difference is the rest of us aren't "officers of the court", we don't carry a gun and badge, and we have no real authority to abuse others with.

 

[motorgod]

I had a scathing response to all this cop-bashing ********, but you guys aren't worth it. Unless you are in the job you can never understand the job. Don't give me this "my mommy/daddy were cops, so I know." No you don't know. Your mommy/daddy spared you and never let you into their cop life. They did a great job of protecting you from the horrors they dealt with. As far as giving breaks? I give breaks to all my close friends (if the crime is an infraction), my family (you would cite your own wife/mother?), complete strangers, and yes other cops. Do I give breaks 100% of the time? Only to my wife (cause she'll pay later and to my mom, cause I'm not a robot) So don't bore me with that "cops give cops" break ********, because I have cited and arrested other cops. If you are going to make blanket statements you had better do your research.

Oh btw....I will make sure NO COP BASHING RESPONDENT of this thread EVER gets a break, cause that woudn't be right. We are there to enforce the law, you pay my salary and I want to make sure you get your monies worth!

 

[Scab]

Danggg, Motorgod, chill. I don't really think everyone is cop-bashing. This thread was supposed to be about who was responsible for this particular cop getting killed while chasing a cyclist. The cyclist, or the cop?

And I used to be "in the job". I even have a friend that was shot five times in the face because he pulled over a car to tell him his taillight was out. I admire those that choose this profession, it is not a life for me.

However, you just added fuel to the fire you wish to extinguish. You openly admit to violating the law you swore to uphold by giving friends and relatives a "break" but want to become irate when the common man is disgusted by the double standard.

 

[FJR_pig]

MotorGod, I wasn't going to post on this thread again because the early comments irritated me, but I'm breaking my silence to tell you to settle down. At this point, you're making things worse.

 

[motorgod]

Danggg, Motorgod, chill. I don't really think everyone is cop-bashing. This thread was supposed to be about who was responsible for this particular cop getting killed while chasing a cyclist. The cyclist, or the cop? And I used to be "in the job". I even have a friend that was shot five times in the face because he pulled over a car to tell him his taillight was out. I admire those that choose this profession, it is not a life for me.

However, you just added fuel to the fire you wish to extinguish. You openly admit to violating the law you swore to uphold by giving friends and relatives a "break" but want to become irate when the common man is disgusted by the double standard.

Please tell me what double standard do you speak of...I give people I do not know a break...not just friends, family and LEO....and if you were really in the 'job'' then I will call you a liar, or anyone else, who states they would cite their brother, sister, wife, g/f, b/f, mother, father, or another LEO ...for a minor traffic violation...and it is called DISCRETION....maybe you did not understand the concept and that is why you were in the job...please tell me what law states that I must cite everyone I pull over for a traffic violation...please do not refer to what you have no knowledge of...nuff said...I'm out...

 

[Scab]

Well I guess it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what a man thinks of himself when he includes the word "god" in his online name.

You call it discretion, I call it hipocracy.

edit: and read your OWN post. "if the CRIME is an infraction" now, you change that to traffic violations only? Gimme a break. You are fast becoming the reason the rest that express a distaste for the LEO's , do so. It's a real comfort to know public safety lies in your most capable and all-knowing hands. And then, just to add credibility to the law enforcement profession, you threaten all who have anything negative to say.

If you are a LAW enforcement officer, I am an Iraqi jet pilot.

edit, edit: As for "please do not refer to what you have no knowledge of..." Why do you think I am no longer connected to the profession? Because of what I do have knowledge of.

 

[sparky3008]

Who do you really think you are serving by chasing down a speeder?

I will start with speeding. It seems officers think they are saving the world by stopping speed violaters. IMHO traffic stops are revenue nothing more.

Do you live on a city street? is there a street in front of your house? If so, please give us your address so that all of us can do burn outs, wheelies, stoppies, side shows, and every other traffic related violation in front of your house. Because YOU WILL NOT COMPLAIN since YOU DO NOT SEEM THE TYPE TO WANT TO HELP THE REVENUERS GENERATE MORE REVENUE!

Patiently waiting for your response.

Don't believe that is who you are stopping on a highway doing 70 in a 55.

And yes I speed on my neighborhood street if you want to get technical because the speed limit is 15 and I do more, sue me.

I know people that I talk to all the time who ride sport bikes who are also cops. Guess what, they have laser and radar detectors and admittedly use them to prevent speeding tickets. Why, because they break the law and try to get away with it.

It is one area of the law that almost everyone breaks. It is not robbing a bank, killing someone, hitting your wife. Cops do it and in my opinion if they admittedly do it I should not be held to some standard that they are not. You being a cop does not make you above the law, any law.

I do not need to know what being a cop is like to know that. My mom being a cop only teaches me that I know she is no different than me and no better driver and has no extra skills that say hey I am a cop I can speed, I can tail gate.

:****:

If a cop feels they need to chase someone for such a crime that they themself do everyday as well then the consequences are on them.

If a cop gets shot bringing down a bank robber or some other criminal then I am 100% on the cops side and the criminal should burn. Two completely different things, not cop bashing...

 

[Mike-H]

Just to add fuel to the fire....a couple pf things....in the U.S. do they set the speed limit @ the 75 percentile mark?....& is it reviewed every 3-5 years?....to be adjusted accordingly....if a handgun is loaded & sitting on the table, those that make it dangerous?....oh ya I'm glad I live north of the border....because "the mounties ALWAYS get their man"

Definitley having problems getting my "D"s out (those instead of Does)....dummy, didldo, ********, dunce....ummmm no problem now!

 

[jestal]

Motorgod's posts pretty much sum up my respect/attitude for cops in general.....because, in my experience in the last 52 years, motorgod's attitude is pretty much what I have run up against 100% of the time when I have had ANY dealings with the cops from any angle.

I used to ride dirt bikes with a cop friend....it was always interesting when we would get stopped riding on public roads in northern Michigan. "We" had street-legaled our bikes in case we got stopped...insurance and the whole bag....but our cop buddy was no-where near legal with anything. But...he was always to first one with his wallet out showing the locals his badge.... What double standard??? THAT one.

Yes people speed on my residential street. I'll give you my address so you can come and write some speeding tickets where SAFETY might be an issue instead of revenue generation. See my post earlier. I just passed an armada of Farmington Hills cops an our ago on I-696 writing speeding tickets en-mass in the middle of the day when traffic is finally flowing. Didn't see hide nor hair of them this morning earlier in rush hour... Much easier and quicker REVENUE GENERATION on the interstate where the entire traffic flow is 80 instead of hanging out on my residential street where they might only stop one person every hour....but it might positively affect SAFETY. Double standard...????....yes, cops are not supposed to be a revenue generation source. They are supposed to uphold the public safety.

Sorry this turned into such a cop bashing but the input from the LEO's on site turned it that way in my opinion.

 

[worldbound4now]

I'm surprised nobody has said that Goodyear was at fault for making faulty tires that didn't grip the road well enough to keep the LEO between the green lines. Face it, there is a shared responsibility. Now it's up to our courts to determine if the motorcyclist really knew he was being chased (and I'm sure he knew it was for him).

 

[FJR_pig]

but the input from the LEO's on site turned it that way in my opinion.

That's a pretty broad generalization that I don't agree with. Motorgod is a Department of one in this thread.

 

[sparky3008]

but the input from the LEO's on site turned it that way in my opinion.

That's a pretty broad generalization that I don't agree with. Motorgod is a Department of one in this thread.

+1 Most other Leo's seemed level headed in the discussion. Motor"god" was what I see as the nightmare cop I never want to encounter... Glad I live in Maryland

 

[mbottoms]

Motorgod,

I love the new Avitar.

Mark

 

[v65]

OK, a question for the officers. Like many that have posted I don't see the need for speed traps on major highways, residential streets are another matter. Tailgating on the other hand is something that gets on my nerves no matter where I am. In one case I had a tractor trailer so close to the bumper of my civic that all I could see is radiator in the rear view mirror, and not the the top of it mind you. Imagine that much up.

So how easy is it to enforce laws like tailgating, talking on a cellphone (in NY), etc compared to speeding. I am not talking about writing a ticket, I am talking about getting it to stick in court when the offender brings in their lawyer. With speeding the officer has radar as evidence, what do you have in these other cases?

 

[sparky3008]

OK, a question for the officers. Like many that have posted I don't see the need for speed traps on major highways, residential streets are another matter. Tailgating on the other hand is something that gets on my nerves no matter where I am. In one case I had a tractor trailer so close to the bumper of my civic that all I could see is radiator in the rear view mirror, and not the the top of it mind you. Imagine that much up.So how easy is it to enforce laws like tailgating, talking on a cellphone (in NY), etc compared to speeding. I am not talking about writing a ticket, I am talking about getting it to stick in court when the offender brings in their lawyer. With speeding the officer has radar as evidence, what do you have in these other cases?

I guess having an officer tailgate you so he can get by you on the highway doesn't bother you.

Why should they be able to enforce laws they themselves don't observe.

It may not be as dangerous, granted but it is no less breaking the law.

I need a sticker, Officer back the f Up.

OK, a question for the officers. Like many that have posted I don't see the need for speed traps on major highways, residential streets are another matter. Tailgating on the other hand is something that gets on my nerves no matter where I am. In one case I had a tractor trailer so close to the bumper of my civic that all I could see is radiator in the rear view mirror, and not the the top of it mind you. Imagine that much up.

So how easy is it to enforce laws like tailgating, talking on a cellphone (in NY), etc compared to speeding. I am not talking about writing a ticket, I am talking about getting it to stick in court when the offender brings in their lawyer. With speeding the officer has radar as evidence, what do you have in these other cases?

I guess having an officer tailgate you so he can get by you on the highway doesn't bother you.

Why should they be able to enforce laws they themselves don't observe.

It may not be as dangerous, granted but it is no less breaking the law.

I need a sticker, Officer back the f Up.

Talking on a cell phone is like enforcing seat belt laws. It is one more way for an officer to stop you so they can look for more serious crimes. It passed because the public thought they were actually concerned about your safety. BS

 

[madmike2]

........."I guess having an officer tailgate you so he can get by you on the highway doesn't bother you.

Why should they be able to enforce laws they themselves don't observe.

It may not be as dangerous, granted but it is no less breaking the law......"

I suppose that doesn't bother me because, believe it or not, sometimes the officer must get somewhere ASAP without using warnings (Code 2). Though it'd bother me a bit if I pulled into a hamburger stand and saw the same officer ahead of me in line. :dribble:

This whole thread has gone awry. The officer involved in the car chase made a terrible and tragic decision. Yes, he should have pursued the offender. When speed and control got "close" to being out-of-hand he should have ended his participation. I know a CHP officer who says he won't chase a sportbike unles he has another radio car in contact or a helicopter. There's just no way they can safely (for the bystanders/citizenry) complete the "capture" in a reasonably safe manner unless he is in a position to "trap" the bike. (Okay, motorgod, go ahead and roll your eyes.) In fact, it has been announced that the CHP intends to look at their pursuit policy this year. (I really don't want to imagine what the roadways would be like without the presence of traffic enforcement officers present, especially if its known they cannot pursue.)

Admittedly, it is difficult for the officer involved to exercise self-control when his adrenalin is flowing, but that's where policy and training are, theoretically, supposed to take over. What a shame that the state wants to prosecute the miscreant to the same extent as one who pulls a gun and kills an officer in cold blood during the execution of a felony. The cyclist did not try and run the officer down (ADW). How far back (distance in his mirrors) did he see the pursuit vehicle. If he saw lights 1/2 mile back, they "could" have been for anyone. I have a great deal of difficulty trying to reconcile these two offences and their attendant sentences. Perhaps these are the two polar extremes each side is arguing from.

The bottom line, if you get "lit-up", pull over. And for goodness sake, if you are a Law Enforcement Officer, don't post a picture of your GPS showing 144 MPH recorded top speed!