Motty AFR Tuner Installation

[myzen]

Thanks for the write-up! I have a similar product on my Harley (Zipper's Thundermax ECM) that is pretty much the same thing. It was about that same price, too

If by "same price", you mean "$250 more"!

The Thundermax EFI system + auto-tune module combo is listed at $899 here.

I paid about $600 for the Motty plus $50 for a wide-band O2 sensor.

You can get the Thundermax for about $650. The biggest difference is the TMAX completely replaces the ECM in the Harley. I ran one for almost a year. The biggest problem with it is it doesn't retard the ignition so pre-ignition (pinging) occurs. I ended up going back to the stock ECM and a Screaming Eagle RAce Tuner (SERT) and found the performance to be comparable, plus the peace of mind of no pinging.

The Motty is cool because it is a piggy back design and does not eliminate the stock ECM. I like it and will be watching this thread.

 

[FJRChris]

Maybe the Mottty AFR is not for me. I'm actually planning on eventuality installing a pair of two brother's and would like to dyno tune the bike to its maximum potential without losing reliability. I'm not really interested in tinkering so much. I am simply looking for the ability to adjust for maximum HP and Torque while using an O2 sensor.

Maybe the desire to tinker is more of a requirement for me since I'm one of the first to try it. If I succeed with my tinkering and share the results, tinkering will be much less necessary, except for maybe adjusting the AFR map to target YOUR personal common cruising speeds for fuel economy. However, the potential for tinkering is definitely there for those who would enjoy it. Modifying the map in terms of air/fuel ratio with data logging feedback is MUCH safer than blindly making changes to fueling relative to stock fueling. I might take my bike in to a dyno tuner this spring just to determine the optimum air fuel ratio for max power on my bike. Then I'd enter that value across the board on the AFR map and get a HP/TQ chart

Sweet, I look forward to seeing your results.

My understanding is most other tuners on the market require you to disconnect the O2 sensor. Please correct me if I am wrong, with a closed loop system if you set fuel air mixture, throttle, position etc on a dyno for maximum HP- that threshold for maximum HP setting will stay constant even if there is change in elevation, barometric pressure, temperature and so on. By disconnecting the O2 sensor you are relying solely on a map that will almost never be ideal for real conditions. I would not even know were to start without the aid of a dyno and a professional tuner. I'm certainly not an expert in this area maybe you can suggest another product to fit my situation?? If you think the Motty AFR is a good fit, then I look forward to your findings.

Yes, the stock O2 sensor must always be disconnected when attempting to override stock fueling. That's because the stock system uses the O2 sensor to achieve 14.7:1 AFR under certain conditions (a good AFR for fuel economy and low emissions). The stock sensor is a narrow-band sensor that can only detect if the AFR is about exactly 14.7:1, or if it is some indeterminable amount lower or higher. If you leave it plugged in, then in some conditions the stock system would fight against the altered fueling.

So therefore the O2 sensor for the Motty a wide band sensor? :huh:

I wasn't to clear with my original reply, I did understand from your post that even with a Motty the stock O2 sensor must be disconnected. Basically what I was intending to say, "I'm interested in a closed loop system like the Motty that utilizes an O2 sensor, whether it's a stock or an aftermarket unit and not an open loop system that's solely dependent on maps."

The fuel injection system (EFI) does make adjustments to account for elevation, intake pressure, etc. However, the adjustments that the EFI makes are made under the assumption that the stock EFI system is working alone and not altered. It has no way of verifying that its adjustments achieved the desired results. Similarly, the Power Commander just always makes the same adjustments. The combination of the stock adjustments for atmospheric conditions with the Power Commander adjustments will put you further away from the results of dyno tuning as the atmospheric conditions become less like those that existed in the dyno room. I've heard of some people getting their Power Commanders dyno tuned twice to try to make up for this - once in the summer and once in the fall/spring for cooler weather.

Yea, that's exactly what I want to avoid!!!

If you want closed-loop automatic self-tuning, your choices are the Motty and the new Power Commander V with the auto-tune module. Neither choice is magic. They are still tools that should ideally be adjusted to perform whatever job you want done (e.g., setting up the AFR map). Since the Power Commander is model specific, it will likely come pre-configured with decent default settings for your bike. I'll be working on good default settings on the Motty for an FJR. Looks like the decision will be driven mainly by price, features and ease of installation. You have to be willing to strip some wires and solder if you get the Motty (or pay someone to do it for you).

Not interested in the pre-configured unit so it sounds like the Motty's a winner! The installation including soldering and stripping wires will not a problem.

Please keep us updated with your results and thanks for sharing!

 

[UselessPickles]

So therefore the O2 sensor for the Motty a wide band sensor? :huh:
I wasn't to clear with my original reply, I did understand from your post that even with a Motty the stock O2 sensor must be disconnected. Basically what I was intending to say, "I'm interested in a closed loop system like the Motty that utilizes an O2 sensor, whether it's a stock or an aftermarket unit and not an open loop system that's solely dependent on maps."

Yes, the Motty uses a wideband O2 sensor as feedback so it can make adjustments until the measured AFR equals the desired AFR (a.k.a., "closed loop").

For anyone that has no idea what this narrow band vs. wideband nonsense is all about, try reading through this. It includes a couple graphs to illustrate the huge difference in measurement range.

 

[brewsky]

I guess my concern is the stock map that any tuner is adjusting from may vary from cylinder to cylinder due to the original air box design.(Individual cylinder CO settings for 07 and prior models for example)

Carving the airbox will upset that relative starting point for the tuner?

Disclaimer: Everything below is my current understanding of how things work. I'm not an expert. Hopefully we have an expert that can tell us how close I am to being right (or completely wrong).

As far as I know, the varying CO settings are for equalizing the 4 cylinders to make up for manufacturing tolerances in the injectors. If the design of the air box creates an imbalance between the throttle bodies, then syncing the throttle bodies would restore balance by restricting airflow to cylinders that get more air due to the airbox design. Some people on the forum have reported that airbox modifications do upset the throttle body synchronization, but re-syncing them after the mod would restore balance.

The goal of these adjustments (CO settings and synchronization) is to get the same amounts of air and fuel in all cylinders regardless of inherent imbalances due to design and manufacturing tolerances. It would not make sense that the engine would be tuned to use different amounts of air in fuel in different cylinders, because that would reduce smoothness in both physical vibration and power delivery.

As for why you would want individual fuel mappings per cylinder, I think that is to make up for slight differences in compression and cylinder size due to manufacturing tolerances, differences in the scavenging effect of the exhaust on each cylinder, etc., but I haven't really looked into it so I could be completely wrong.

After questioning a couple of Yamaha techs, and reading the shop and EFI manual, I've learned the following:

1: the stock ecu uses O2 readings for live map adjustment during steady state open throttle only (on the FJR, other models vary), and therefore is in closed loop mode only part time.

2: the air induction system opens to provide addtl air into the exhaust only at idle or when the engine temp is below operating normal when moving.

3: the initial CO settings are reference numbers only (-128 to +126) and represent individual cylinder adjustments to the base map injection duration settings. These adjustments are carried through the entire range of operation.

4: BJM instructions for gen 2 models to enable CO adjustment say remove wire from pin 23 and insert in pin 25

5: Manual says remove wire from 23 and ground it to perform the adjustment????

6: Manual says throttle body sync is done by adjusting air bypass screws and equalizing flow by manometer readings

7:Manual says CO adjustment is done by inserting rivnuts and O2 sensors in all 4 head pipes and adjust readings to achieve 3%-4% CO in each cylinder on 4 channel gas analyzer

8. more answers lead to more questions!!

UP, I think you are on to something good with this mod, and I appreciate your time spent to share in such a well detailed manner.

I'm getting ready to choose a tuner also and will be watching this thread closely.

I was impressed with the only other bike I rode with a live wide band adjustment, and this appears to be even better.

I still think individual CO adjustment per cylinder should be done as a result of air box mods with or without addition of an aftermarket tuner.

My dealer says a header with bungs in all 4 header pipes is available from Yamaha to dealers on a scheduled basis for those who don"t want to permanently drill their own headers.

 

[UselessPickles]

I still think individual CO adjustment per cylinder should be done as a result of air box mods with or without addition of an aftermarket tuner.

I still think this is unnecessary because the CO adjustment is used to balance the amount of fuel provided by the 4 injectors. The amount of fuel needs to match the amount of air. A throttle body synchronization balances the amount of air passing through the throttle bodies. The CO adjustments (fuel injector balance) were already performed at the factory based on balanced throttle bodies. Changing the airbox will throw the throttle bodies out of balance, but it doesn't affect the fuel injector balance. yes, at this point, the CO readings will be out of balance because there is an imbalance to the airflow. If you then balance the throttle bodies, you will return to balanced airflow matched up with balanced fuel flow. But if you instead balance the CO readings, then you'll end up with balance air/fuel ratios between the cylinders, but the absolute amounts of air and fuel will be out of balance. That would lead to an imbalance of power produced by each cylinder.

It is worth mentioning that the adjustments made during the official throttle body synchronization is causing adjustments to a bypass airway (that bypasses the butterfly valve in the throttle body). These adjustments are most effective at idle, and become less significant as the throttle is opened. It is possible that the "unofficial" throttle body synchronization after an airbox mod may be helpful to bring the throttle bodies back into balance at wide open throttle.

 

[JamesK]

UP, thank you for the great write up and efforts.

I am using a PCIII USB on GenII FJR and am ok with it, but the Motty does sound really cool.

Do you have any ballpark readings on the MPG at various speeds/riding styles with your Motty setup? I ask because as most PCIII users will attest it does noticeably reduce the MPG.

Also, do you have any pics of the airbox mods you've made?

 

[UselessPickles]

UP, thank you for the great write up and efforts.

You're welcome

Do you have any ballpark readings on the MPG at various speeds/riding styles with your Motty setup? I ask because as most PCIII users will attest it does noticeably reduce the MPG.

Winter weather hasn't allowed me to actually ride the bike yet. MPG will depend on how you set up the AFR map. It's completely up to you to decide if you want to give up power for fuel efficiency under various conditions. Here's a forum discussion with AFR suggestions for different situations: https://www.qldstreetscene.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=999.

Also, do you have any pics of the airbox mods you've made?

I performed this airbox mod: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=105719

 

[Wicked Webby]

Pickles,

You should open up your air box all the way. If that box works (like you/I hope it does) it will love the maximized air input.

WW

 

[UselessPickles]

I finally got to ride my bike this weekend. Good news is that it the Motty really smoothed out low throttle positions. Transitioning from deceleration to light acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear at low speeds is very smooth now.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to fully experience the Motty because there were some problems with the speed signal and gear position calibrations. While cruising at 70mph in 5th gear, the data logger showed 42mph in 2nd gear. It wouldn't tune the higher throttle positions because it thought that I never got out of 2nd gear. Self-mapping is restricted to certain throttle ranges for each gear. It's partially configurable, but still limited to lower throttle positions in the lower gears. This is because conditions are too unstable under hard acceleration in low gears to accurately self-map.

A quick email conversation with Tamas at Motty along with some help from the service manual (the speed signal on the GenII FJRs is based on 42 "pulses" per revolution of the rear wheel, in case you were wondering) resulted in some new calibration values for me to try. I expect that this was my last issue with my Motty installation, so everything should be working perfectly now. I'll find out for sure next time the weather cooperates so i can ride the bike again.

I also got sneak preview of the latest firmware. It adds support for a digital input (i.e., on/off switch/button) that can be configured to control a couple different things, such as turning self-mapping on and off, turning data logging on/off, switching between maps, etc. The most interesting use for this digital input is a configurable temporary fuel enrichment for use with NOS. If you set things up correctly, you could have one button that both engages the NOS and tells the Motty to add extra fuel to account for the NOS

 

[UselessPickles]

The installation is finally an official success! All calibration installation/issues have been worked out, and the AFR Tuner's manual should be getting updated with the required changes so no one else has to go through the guinea pig phase that I did.

First ride report coming up next (new thread)...

---- edit ----

Here's the first ride report: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=114566

 

[UselessPickles]

Updated original post to include warning about using Dorman bypass caps for blocking off the Pulsed Air (PAIR) system.

 

[JamesK]

Updated original post to include warning about using Dorman bypass caps for blocking off the Pulsed Air (PAIR) system.

What's the problem with using the Dorman bypass caps?

I am curious because I used these on my bike, secured with hose clamps they seem to work very well.

 

[UselessPickles]

Updated original post to include warning about using Dorman bypass caps for blocking off the Pulsed Air (PAIR) system.

What's the problem with using the Dorman bypass caps?

I am curious because I used these on my bike, secured with hose clamps they seem to work very well.

They don't seem to like heat cycles and end up splitting. I had them on my last FJR for an entire summer with no problems, but they didn't even last one ride on my new FJR this winter. Read the 1st post for more (including a more sturdy solution).

 

[Wicked Webby]

FJRChris,

Sorry a little late on your past statements... The answer to a previous post of yours about 02 sensors...

The Dolbeck/Techlusion FI tuning box does allow you the ability to leave your 02 sensor hooked up.

WW

 

[UselessPickles]

FJRChris,
Sorry a little late on your past statements... The answer to a previous post of yours about 02 sensors...

The Dolbeck/Techlusion FI tuning box does allow you the ability to leave your 02 sensor hooked up.

WW

The Dolbeck/Techlusion FI is just a basic low, mid and high RPM range fuel injection adjustment, right? No closed-loop feedback from a wide-band O2 sensor?

With the Motty, you wouldn't want the stock O2 sensor at all. The Motty can't use it because it's a narrow-band sensor. If you installed both Motty's wide-band sensor and the stock sensor at the same time, then you'd have two closed-loop systems fighting against each other. The Motty would be fighting for your specified AFR targets, while the stock system would be fighting for 14.7:1 in some conditions.

 

[Wicked Webby]

FJRChris,
Sorry a little late on your past statements... The answer to a previous post of yours about 02 sensors...

The Dolbeck/Techlusion FI tuning box does allow you the ability to leave your 02 sensor hooked up.

WW

The Dolbeck/Techlusion FI is just a basic low, mid and high RPM range fuel injection adjustment, right? No closed-loop feedback from a wide-band O2 sensor?

With the Motty, you wouldn't want the stock O2 sensor at all. The Motty can't use it because it's a narrow-band sensor. If you installed both Motty's wide-band sensor and the stock sensor at the same tpWCime, then you'd have two closed-loop systems fighting against each other. The Motty would be fighting for your specified AFR targets, while the stock system would be fighting for 14.7:1 in some conditions.

The Dolbeck/Techlusion adjusts the low, mid, high and also has a fuel slide controller. In other words.... It allows you to tune your fuel injected bike like we use to tune carbs. Don't let the simple interface fool ya! Even standard old carbs make killer power! This FI tuner box works unbelievably awesome!!! The simplicity of tuning it is just another reason why it is so very cool and effective. Simple tuning adjustments (you can do along the side of the road) while still utilizing FI! It works great!!! As Gramps and my good Buddie (on his "just as" hopped up C14) will tell ya.

A fair side by side comparo of my hopped up FJR and my Buddies similar hopped up C14, with links to his comments on his forum:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=107859

Some dude on a C14 that wanted to play with my itty bitty Feejer:

https://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=45448.0

What the Dolbeck/Techlusion does (that a PWC doesn't) is allow you to tune without a computer interface, and also can work with your stock 02 sensor in place. Thus, allowing for a closed loop mode. Yes, the stock 02 is a narrow band system only programed for use during a load cycle. When using the Dolbeck/Techlusion FI controller with your 02 sensor hooked up, you turn off the low/pot.. Thus, allowing the bike to self govern itself under the light load cycle. Under acceleration and WOT the 02 sensor is no longer looped (02 is eliminated) allowing for the tuner to do its thing. Thus, no fighting among the FI tuner and bikes ECU. This setup then allows for some better gas mileage and still all the raw power under accel and wot.

With the use of my Dolbeck/Techlusion, I was able to dial in more real World power and pull harder on bikes that I had before using it (when I was tuned from the dyno). In other words.. My bike gained significant acceleration and top end by tuning (with my wide band sniffer) and using this FI box, even after I posted up my impressive dyno sheet and tune level. Trust me when I tell you.. I hope the motty FI controller can beat it because that means we have just figured out how to get even more out of the FJR! This being very possible, but not likely. I say that not as a knock on the motty BUT more with the stance that you can only pull so much HP/TQ out of a stock naturally aspired engine (standard fuel, standard air and exhaust) . My setup seems to be knocking on the door of that already. I am sure (It better for the bucks you paid for that motty) yours will be too.

I do hope it does better. Then I'll get one!

Looking forward to the fun when we run um!!

WW

 

[v65]

Looking forward to the fun when we run um!!

Pickles isn't carrying a lot of body mass around, my money is on him.

 

[UselessPickles]

I finally got my Holeshot headers back. They are the newer stainless steel headers, but I decided to get them ceramic coated just to squeak out a bit more power and to reduce the radiating heat on my ankles when stopped at red lights in the summer. I also needed to get an O2 sensor welded to it for the Motty AFR Tuner. Total price for welding and ceramic coating was $240.

The O2 sensor bung was added to the left-side header (this is a view from the right side of the bike). This position prevents the O2 sensor and its cable from protruding out past the fairing, and it also allows you to still use the stock cable routing. Yes, the O2 sensor will only be reading 2 cylinders instead of all 4, but this is not expected to be a problem. Original post has been updated with this info and photo.

 

[RadioHowie]

I decided to get them ceramic coated just to squeak out a bit more power and to reduce the radiating heat on my ankles when stopped at red lights in the summer.

I can understand the heat issue, but how is ceramic coating the exterior of the header gonna "squeak out a bit more power"?

If you're trying to retain some extra heat "energy" in the pipes for a turbo installation, I MIGHT understand, but for a non-pressurized intake, how is coating the headers gonna improve power?

 

[UselessPickles]

I decided to get them ceramic coated just to squeak out a bit more power and to reduce the radiating heat on my ankles when stopped at red lights in the summer.

I can understand the heat issue, but how is ceramic coating the exterior of the header gonna "squeak out a bit more power"?

If you're trying to retain some extra heat "energy" in the pipes for a turbo installation, I MIGHT understand, but for a non-pressurized intake, how is coating the headers gonna improve power?

Ceramic coating keeps the heat of the exhaust inside the pipe instead of letting the heat radiate out of the pipe and onto the engine. There's claims out there of ceramic coating of headers (naturally aspirated) creating up to 3% performance gains. It's unknown whether it would cause a measurable gain on the FJR, but it's nice to think that it might contribute to the final amount of power that I get out of the setup.

The more practical benefits are the protective coating preventing corrosion, it looks all nice and shiny and won't turn blue, and it won't radiate heat on my ankles at red lights.