Joe2Lmaker
Well-known member
First, I'd need to know how much money we're talking aboat here.
I need a collaborator when writing on this forum. (I'm sure you've noticed)
Are you available?
My commute home last night
- Thread starter James Burleigh
- Start date
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James Burleigh
Well-known member
From my buddy:
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"Wow… great stuff… I love the posts and I love the discussion. Over all the people who made the posts are from the kind of riders that I like to see because they are not giving all riders a bad name….Level headed and assessing the situation. I would love to join this forum, but alas I am not an FJR rider but a big Harley Rider, don’t hold it against me please. 2 years ago I nearly bought an FJR for my commute bike. But as the saying goes, “discretion is the better part of valor…” I would have killed myself on that motorcycle so I decided to just commute with what I have.
"In reading the posts I do have to say my experience comments were not exactly the best choice of words. I think better words would be “assessing the situation.” I have been lane sharing for 36 years in both Northern and Southern CA commuter traffic. 80% of it has been on my personal motorcycle and not the land shark I had the opportunity to work on. In the beginning… yea I split because I wanted to save the time. Over the years my experience, education and training has changed. At this point lane sharing is because I understand crash dynamics and I would much rather be in a same direction contact than a rear end contact on my motorcycle….saving time is a side benefit. This is where assessing traffic comes in, I believe that by keeping my speed down, being aware of what is going on around me, keeping a high visual horizon… and knowing when not to pass….. evens the odds for me with respect to being in a crash sitting in traffic as compared to moving through it. Yes there are people who come over and ride the line…Yes there drivers who will drive next to each other and get close enough so I can’t get between them… it is their lane, and they get to choose what part they want to drive in… they were there first. Sooner or later traffic will break and I will get to go around them… I don’t have to increase my risk because there are always other options which will present themselves in a few minutes at most.
"OK… enough is enough… this is not a thread for or against lane splitting… I just wanted to clear up a few things and say thanks for the opportunity to listen (OK read) and learn a little more.
"Ride safe and be careful out there…. And look out for the new breed of “poser” out there… I call them the Sons-of Anarchy wanta-bes…. Wanta-be bad guys who think a Harley makes them really bad and because they are so bad and so tough they don’t need to learn how to ride. These guys don’t ride worth-a crap and I have had to dodge more than a few of them…. And, a$$h0les on bikes ride all kinds of bikes….Hopefully this will start a new thread for you all!"
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"Wow… great stuff… I love the posts and I love the discussion. Over all the people who made the posts are from the kind of riders that I like to see because they are not giving all riders a bad name….Level headed and assessing the situation. I would love to join this forum, but alas I am not an FJR rider but a big Harley Rider, don’t hold it against me please. 2 years ago I nearly bought an FJR for my commute bike. But as the saying goes, “discretion is the better part of valor…” I would have killed myself on that motorcycle so I decided to just commute with what I have.
"In reading the posts I do have to say my experience comments were not exactly the best choice of words. I think better words would be “assessing the situation.” I have been lane sharing for 36 years in both Northern and Southern CA commuter traffic. 80% of it has been on my personal motorcycle and not the land shark I had the opportunity to work on. In the beginning… yea I split because I wanted to save the time. Over the years my experience, education and training has changed. At this point lane sharing is because I understand crash dynamics and I would much rather be in a same direction contact than a rear end contact on my motorcycle….saving time is a side benefit. This is where assessing traffic comes in, I believe that by keeping my speed down, being aware of what is going on around me, keeping a high visual horizon… and knowing when not to pass….. evens the odds for me with respect to being in a crash sitting in traffic as compared to moving through it. Yes there are people who come over and ride the line…Yes there drivers who will drive next to each other and get close enough so I can’t get between them… it is their lane, and they get to choose what part they want to drive in… they were there first. Sooner or later traffic will break and I will get to go around them… I don’t have to increase my risk because there are always other options which will present themselves in a few minutes at most.
"OK… enough is enough… this is not a thread for or against lane splitting… I just wanted to clear up a few things and say thanks for the opportunity to listen (OK read) and learn a little more.
"Ride safe and be careful out there…. And look out for the new breed of “poser” out there… I call them the Sons-of Anarchy wanta-bes…. Wanta-be bad guys who think a Harley makes them really bad and because they are so bad and so tough they don’t need to learn how to ride. These guys don’t ride worth-a crap and I have had to dodge more than a few of them…. And, a$$h0les on bikes ride all kinds of bikes….Hopefully this will start a new thread for you all!"
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
James Burleigh
Well-known member
Some more great comments. Thanks. And I appreciate your comments, Rich. Good stuff.
BTW, from my perspective, this isn't about getting home quicker. Getting home quicker is not the goal of filtering; it's an outcome. I lane share because I can. And I believe I mentioned the fun part earlier.
And as long as this thread ain't about lane sharing , here's the definitive JB lane-sharing vid, a compilation I made three and a half years ago. And let me be the first to say, there's a number of moves on the vid I would not do today! I'm much more mellow, and get in line when traffic is moving well. Lane sharing vid.
BTW, from my perspective, this isn't about getting home quicker. Getting home quicker is not the goal of filtering; it's an outcome. I lane share because I can. And I believe I mentioned the fun part earlier.
And as long as this thread ain't about lane sharing
, here's the definitive JB lane-sharing vid, a compilation I made three and a half years ago. And let me be the first to say, there's a number of moves on the vid I would not do today! I'm much more mellow, and get in line when traffic is moving well. Lane sharing vid.
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RenoJohn
Well-known member
Jimmy B:
Thanks much for sharing that. I want you to teach me how to ride metropolitan. I'm a real pussy when it comes to dense traffic ....and you seem to be proficient.
Comments from Reno:
+ Ain't nothin' on planet earth worse than heavy traffic and commuting, Combined is no doubt worse than purgatory. --So, you making the best of it and having moto-bike fun wins you the honored 11-thumbs-up in my book. Every minute you're home and not sucking on some cager's tail pipe is a minute of life you didn't waste.
+ In exchange for the metropolitan skewling that you'll be instructing me on .....I'm going to show you how to proficiently speed-shift the FJR to help out that overburdened clutch of yours.
+ While I sure don't envy your commute, Jimmy B, you make me proud for demonstrating yet another reason why moto-bike fun is the best fun out there. I like your style.
Keep on Truckin' daddy-0
Thanks much for sharing that. I want you to teach me how to ride metropolitan. I'm a real pussy when it comes to dense traffic ....and you seem to be proficient.
Comments from Reno:
+ Ain't nothin' on planet earth worse than heavy traffic and commuting, Combined is no doubt worse than purgatory. --So, you making the best of it and having moto-bike fun wins you the honored 11-thumbs-up in my book. Every minute you're home and not sucking on some cager's tail pipe is a minute of life you didn't waste.
+ In exchange for the metropolitan skewling that you'll be instructing me on .....I'm going to show you how to proficiently speed-shift the FJR to help out that overburdened clutch of yours.
+ While I sure don't envy your commute, Jimmy B, you make me proud for demonstrating yet another reason why moto-bike fun is the best fun out there. I like your style.
Keep on Truckin' daddy-0
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Wow, that's some nasty traffic. 95% of my riding is in Orange County, where most of my encounters with stop-go traffic is on freeways with carpool/HOV lanes. I lane share/filter/split most every time I'm on my bike, although it's often between stopped cars at a red light. I've found that with experience comes confidence, and don't mind it at all. I am sometimes concerned with riders who are splitting at speeds I'd consider unsafe... I generally stick to 5-10mph over what traffic is doing up to about 30-40mph at which point I just fall in line. Some guys split at 15-20mph (or more!) over current traffic speeds, and I'll see guys split at 80-100mph when traffic is moving at 70mph. I view lane splitting as a necessity, to avoid a rear end collision and to save time/avoid roasting myself over the engine when the radiator fans kick on. It seems that some guys do it as thrill seekers when it's really not necessary.
When I split I like to keep the motor spinning at 4-5k RPM so I can drop the hammer if necessary. I sit more upright and devote more effort to not only look *at* the cars ahead, but *in* them when possible. Who is on the phone, who is glancing left/right to dart into a lane without signaling, etc. I devote more time/effort to scanning ahead at the detriment of looking in the mirrors... but when I split lanes it's because traffic is stopped or nearly stopped, so I feel it's more important to focus ahead than to check my six in those situations. When I come to a point where traffic begins to move again, I slow down and only pass when I feel the cars ahead aren't going to change lanes now that they might have an opportunity. I guess you do it enough and you get a sense of how to split with the flow of traffic, and anticipate points when cars are more likely to change lanes in front of you.
I can't say that I'd split on the right myself, but I freely admit to occasionally splitting between the HOV and #1 lane over the double yellow at times, or even ride in between the double yellow lines. If I have to do that or come to a stop due to a large truck/van or car not centered in the HOV lane, I'll do it.
Personally I would not want to ride a motorcycle in traffic even remotely as bad as we see in that video and not be able to lane share/split/whatever term you prefer. I've done it in other states and found that the likelihood of being "bullied" by a car (as in tailgated, someone moving into your lane, cutting you off) is higher when you're not moving past them... not to mention the engine heat and the heat from the gear we wear sitting there on that asphalt in the summer time or even in cold weather dealing with fog in the visor due to lack of airflow.
When I split I like to keep the motor spinning at 4-5k RPM so I can drop the hammer if necessary. I sit more upright and devote more effort to not only look *at* the cars ahead, but *in* them when possible. Who is on the phone, who is glancing left/right to dart into a lane without signaling, etc. I devote more time/effort to scanning ahead at the detriment of looking in the mirrors... but when I split lanes it's because traffic is stopped or nearly stopped, so I feel it's more important to focus ahead than to check my six in those situations. When I come to a point where traffic begins to move again, I slow down and only pass when I feel the cars ahead aren't going to change lanes now that they might have an opportunity. I guess you do it enough and you get a sense of how to split with the flow of traffic, and anticipate points when cars are more likely to change lanes in front of you.
I can't say that I'd split on the right myself, but I freely admit to occasionally splitting between the HOV and #1 lane over the double yellow at times, or even ride in between the double yellow lines. If I have to do that or come to a stop due to a large truck/van or car not centered in the HOV lane, I'll do it.
Personally I would not want to ride a motorcycle in traffic even remotely as bad as we see in that video and not be able to lane share/split/whatever term you prefer. I've done it in other states and found that the likelihood of being "bullied" by a car (as in tailgated, someone moving into your lane, cutting you off) is higher when you're not moving past them... not to mention the engine heat and the heat from the gear we wear sitting there on that asphalt in the summer time or even in cold weather dealing with fog in the visor due to lack of airflow.
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Ditto from Papa Chuy, RJ; I also like JB's style! "Living on reds, Vitamin C and cocaine; what a long strange trip it's been!" Aren't getting out of this mess alive anyway, so take it to the limit mis Amigos!Jimmy B:
Thanks much for sharing that. I want you to teach me how to ride metropolitan. I'm a real pussy when it comes to dense traffic ....and you seem to be proficient.
Comments from Reno:
+ Ain't nothin' on planet earth worse than heavy traffic and commuting, Combined is no doubt worse than purgatory. --So, you making the best of it and having moto-bike fun wins you the honored 11-thumbs-up in my book. Every minute you're home and not sucking on some cager's tail pipe is a minute of life you didn't waste.
+ In exchange for the metropolitan skewling that you'll be instructing me on .....I'm going to show you how to proficiently speed-shift the FJR to help out that overburdened clutch of yours.
+ While I sure don't envy your commute, Jimmy B, you make me proud for demonstrating yet another reason why moto-bike fun is the best fun out there. I like your style.
Keep on Truckin' daddy-0
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Silver Penguin
Silver Penguin
I agree with SVTNat's point of view. We commute in the same area, same type of traffic and have adopted similar styles. I believe that commuting on a daily basis, in hypervigilant-defensive mode, teaches you to anticipate SOME of the dumbass cager moves. Of course, there will always be the WTF was he thinking? type manoevers, but the run of the mill stuff happens over and over again. You look into the car to know your opponent and what he's doing. When you see the phone in one hand and the burger/shaver/mascara in the other, you know to give the wider berth and faster pass. You learn to anticipate the little twitches that could lead to a lane change. The more you do it, the better you get.
Colleagues at work express concern for my safety whenever they see the bike gear. Many have commented on how some riders scare them by lane sharing at insane speeds. When the traffic is moving near or even over the speed limit, the sport bike guys are doing 20-30mph over and weaving between lanes, leaving inches between them and the cars they pass. That's a big negative for the image of motorcyclists as a group.
James Burleigh
Well-known member
James Burleigh
Well-known member
That's a deal. I look forward to it. I'm what you might call self-taught when it comes to working them controls, so I'm sure I have some bad habits.
Compliments are appreciated in proportion to our respect for the person giving them. In this case I appreciate it mightily. Thanks!
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gregory
Great things are afoot
I bow to your mad skills!
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
As long as we're giving advice: One thing I look for is previous visible crash damage ('whiskey-bumps') present on vehicles -- when I see that I give them a wide berth (they've proven they can do damage...).
OTOH, the sportbike's aggressive riding tactics may be their greatest defense? "The best defense is a good offense..." Better to be 'in charge' of the situation than to be constantly reacting to to some other road user's (dumb) decision...
"20-30mph over" -- speed is relative...
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James Burleigh
Well-known member
That about sums it up! For me it all started back in high school when I read Jack Kerauac's On the Road. It's been all about experience, adventure, and "kicks" ever since!
James Burleigh
Well-known member
I was just re-reading Pascal for a post I want to do in "bike-related discussions" and came across this quote about pride, which I think explains why I and others post videos and ride reports, etc.:
Curiosity is only vanity. We usually only want to know something so that we can talk about it; in other words, we would never travel by sea if it meant never talking about it, or just for the sheer pleasure of seeing things we could never hope to describe to others.
DD
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Wee Willy
It's bad, you know
Cringe...hunch...cringe some more..."ooooo, look out."
BTW, what did you use to mount that video camera?
And the way you spank that clutch.
W2
BTW, what did you use to mount that video camera?
And the way you spank that clutch.
W2
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Crash Cash
Well-known member
When "colleagues" at work express concern for my safety on the bike, my reply is usually something along the line of "How about you f-ckin' sh-theads learn how to drive and watch where you're going, and it won't be such a problem...?"[1] :huh: because it's none of their damned business. Just Friday after lunch, I had a coworker pull into the handicapped spot, then back into the empty space behind without so much as a glance around. Fortunately I had the airhorns and the quick twist of the wrist. He jumped out and apologized, so I said "That's OK, you're a car driver, I don't expect much"
When car drivers start being concerned about their "image" and stop the driving with an iPhone in one hand and burger in the other, then I'll start worrying about my "image" as a motorcyclist. Especially those assholes in large trucks, BMWs, and Volvos... talk about a "bad image" there! If I was on a jury and it came out the suspected murder drove any of those, it'd be an instant "GUILTY! FRY HIM!" from me.
What I love is on Curry Ford, there will be 4 miles of empty road, with just me and 2 cars on it, and those cock-gobblers will be side-by-side the entire way. Hell, I've even had the situation happen with 2 schoolbuses, where the dickhead pulled over to take up both lanes just as I got there, nearly taking out the front wheel of the SV. So yeah, I lanesplit. It's not illegal if you don't get caught.
[1] Actually recently, I've been doing a pre-emptive "Oh my god, I hope you make it home safe in your car!" and when they do the shocked/puzzled reply, I talk about how many people get killed in cars monthly, and how my dad and high-school girlfriend[2] got killed in cars. Just 'cuz, you know, I'm good with people like that.
[2] Neither of which is true, but I'm tired of the "my adopted brother's wife's step-father-in-law's 2nd cousin's ex-girlfriend got killed on a bike" crap.
Silver Penguin
Silver Penguin
Wow! These folks have really gotten to you. Your statement above about the adopted brother's etc etc strikes a chord. Seems as though everyone knows of someone who died/got maimed on a bike. I suggest they research how many people die in hospitals. Would you ever visit one again? (I work in a hospital).
I take my colleagues' concern in the spirit that I hope it's meant, in that they care about my welfare because they like me. (OK, so I could be deluding myself here, but it helps me to sleep at night). I educate where I can, about accident statistics being influenced by all the things we know and love from the Hurt Report. I do all the things that I can do, to ensure my personal safety but giving up the bike isn't one of them.
James Burleigh
Well-known member
Man, ain't it the truth. Does EVERYONE know someone who was killed on a bike? :blink: Please freakin' spare me. Don't people realize when they're not being original? I'm guessing there must be two degrees of separation from every human on the planet and someone killed on a motorcycle.
I've been turning my attitude around about drivers. I have come to recognize and acknowledge that most people are good drivers who drive rationally and pay attention much of the time, within human powers of paying attention in today's world. I also remember that my wife and kids all drive, and that they are good drivers. And when I talk about cagers as *&%#!, I'm talking about my family too. Prejudice is prejudice.
But here's the bottom line for me: I've stopped (somewhat) bitching and moaning about drivers and all the bone-headed things people do. The reason is, I have chosen to ride a motorcycle in the imperfect but fairly consistent and mostly predictable driving world we live in. So if I've made that decision and continue to ride, knowing the stuff that goes on out there, then I've decided to accept all that. I guess that makes me an existentialist.... Existentialists take responsibility for and accept the consequences of their decisions. I'll have to look for an existentialist superhero costume as soon as I'm through being Daredevil.
DD
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JB that was a nice video. I never lived in California, but I admit during a couple visits to slow lane splitting, after torturing myself sitting in southern Cali gridlock (even once on a gridlocked ride to Oakland... shhh) as bikes zipped by at 20 mph. Scary as hell at first, even at 10-20 mph. Like Silver Penguin, if it felt strange/uncomfortable to continue, I pulled over to a free spot and watched what traffic did, and then moved on. When I lived in Boston, I think I'd be dead if there was lane splitting: California riders are so much more civil than East Coast cagers. All in all I hate riding/driving/busing/commuting in cities no matter the mode of transport.
Personally, I don't really care if JB or anybody takes some semi-legal chances with a motorcycle. I'm no angel at times. There are a lot of riders with better skills than me who take what appear foolish chances. But the maneuvers are often accomplished with aplomb over and over. A tip o' the hat to them -- but not for me with my skill and experience. To those without the necessary skills who try these maneuvers: good luck.
I prefer my 2 mile 7-10 minute commute (depending whether I am stopped at two or three of the red lights on my trip). It is so short I tend to cage it rather than gear up. I just wish there were fewer deer (I saw three on my commute in "the city" last week). I imagine looking for rogue cagers is a similar skill set to watching for deer while living next to several National forests and parks.
As for Pascal, curiosity is not vanity or narcissism, it is a measure of intelligence. Narcissism and vanity are a result of unmet nurturing needs at a young age, and an overcompensation for the resulting insecurities inherently engendered. But I'm not vain enough to think my opinion counts for much.
I enjoyed the thread. Thanks.
Personally, I don't really care if JB or anybody takes some semi-legal chances with a motorcycle. I'm no angel at times. There are a lot of riders with better skills than me who take what appear foolish chances. But the maneuvers are often accomplished with aplomb over and over. A tip o' the hat to them -- but not for me with my skill and experience. To those without the necessary skills who try these maneuvers: good luck.
I prefer my 2 mile 7-10 minute commute (depending whether I am stopped at two or three of the red lights on my trip). It is so short I tend to cage it rather than gear up. I just wish there were fewer deer (I saw three on my commute in "the city" last week). I imagine looking for rogue cagers is a similar skill set to watching for deer while living next to several National forests and parks.
As for Pascal, curiosity is not vanity or narcissism, it is a measure of intelligence. Narcissism and vanity are a result of unmet nurturing needs at a young age, and an overcompensation for the resulting insecurities inherently engendered. But I'm not vain enough to think my opinion counts for much.
I enjoyed the thread. Thanks.
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