Negotiating with auto dealers

[Joe2Lmaker]

I'm looking at a new (2010) Ford F-250 4WD.

Let's skip the first question, "Why would anyone want a Ford F-250 4WD?" and get to the problem at hand. I would like to get a good deal on one of these beasts. The time seems perfect. The new 2011 have been launched with a more powerful, more fuel economical engine. The 2011 also comes with a 6 speed automatic and is arguably better looking than the 2010.

2010 are plentiful. I've searched many Ford dealer inventories in my 5 state area and I have no problem finding a 2010 in the color I want with options I can live with.

I've gone to talk to those dealers after doing my homework. I know the invoice and the holdback on the particular vehicle I have gone to see. After a little negotiating, I can get the price down to invoice, less the hold back, less the Ford customer incentive. Then, we reach an impasse. The sales manager either tells the salesman to tell me to piss off, or the salesman/saleswoman himself/herself tells me to piss off.

So, that means that I'm done, right? Well, not exactly.

There is a very tenacious salesman who I've been talking to for a few weeks. He had a truck on their lot that I was interested in, but I told him that I was looking at a truck on another lot for "net-net less holdback." I assumed this would end our conversation, but instead it almost egged him on to do better. He asked about the truck, the color, the trim level, and the options. He asked if he could find "my" truck, would I buy it from him instead.

That got me thinking... First, I've gotta like this guy's attitude. Anyone who knows me knows I am tenacious to a fault. Second, where is the incentive for this guy to sell me a truck at "net-net less holdback" if he has to buy that truck from another dealer?

Why wouldn't a dealer sell me a truck, even if it meant dipping into his/her Ford dealer incentives? Why would they rather give it away?

There must be some money to be saved, but what am I doing wrong?

 

[Grumpy]

If you know what you'd be willing to pay, tell the salesman's boss that number and leave your phone number with the statement to call me when you're willing to sell me the truck at this price. When they call with a counter offer tell them not to call again until they reach your number. Works most of the time, but you can't be in a hurry. For better success tell them you're making the same offer to a number of dealers and the first one in gets your business.

DO NOT VISIT THE DEALERSHIP......only contact is via phone. Drives 'um crazy, but you have to do your homework.

 

[Lee B.]

maybe you've found the true cost/value. sort of like putting your house up for sale and then having to lower the asking price until someone makes you an offer. you never know what it's worth until you get to that point....no matter what you ask for it. on the other hand maybe Ford is feeling pretty good about their trucks and about Ford these days. wait until it is closer to the end of the month.

 

[wfooshee]

You have to be willing to walk if you can't get your price. Dealers actually assume you'll be begging them to let you have it, whatever it takes. They forget they ought to be begging you to take it, whatever it takes.

Years and years ago I looked at a '90 or '91 Mitsu Galant VR-4. Rare, the all-wheel-drive turbo driveline from the Eclipse but in a well-appointed sedan. And this one was well appointed: leather, power everything, blah blah blah. It had been on their lot 7 months, so I knew I could steal it. Made an offer, they countered a grand higher. I walked. The following week the car is on TV at my price!!! Oh, well, I'd bought something else somewhere else in the meantime.

 

[phroenips]

another tactic that's worked for me in the past is to go through their Internet sales departments. Get quotes from several dealers, pit them against each other....all while sitting in front of your computer.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I'm not trying to beat up on the dealers too much. ..."Seek first to understand", after all

Let me see if I can rephrase this in the first person.

Let's say that I have a product to sell, like auxiliary tanks or something. Let's say that you would like to buy one. If you knew I would sell one to SuzyQ for less than I would sell it to you, wouldn't that piss you off?? Wouldn't you want to know what SuzyQ's advantage was?

This is where I find myself. They would rather give the vehicle away for an even trade or make nothing on it rather than let me dent their Ford factory to dealer incentive. Weird. Now I know how the Knights of Columbus felt about the Masons. "I wonder what they do in there."

 

[user 213]

Know what you will pay. Ask if the person you're dealing with can accept or deny that offer. If not, tell them to either take that offer to the right person, or bring them to you. Do NOT negotiate at all. If they say no, thank them for their time and walk away.

Frankly, the best time to play with the dealers is when the next model year is physically on their lot. More than once I've made at loss deals on the previous year's model w/zero haggling. Even got floor mats and some other extras once. They are never going to sell the new trucks with the old ones still sitting there.

Some dealers have to have "their" price. I've made offers and been refused, made a point to give them my number and tell them to call me when they will see it at that price, only to see it in the paper or on TV at my price a couple weeks later. Dumbshits will pay to advertise it before they would call me back.

Another tip is to work with the Fleet Sales guy. Often they have a few spots set aside for their own deals that they tack on to a fleet sale. I've bought at cost that way and gotten exactly the options/color I wanted. Not the best deal possible, but very low hassle.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Made an offer, they countered a grand higher. I walked. The following week the car is on TV at my price!!!

I've made offers and been refused, made a point to give them my number and tell them to call me when they will see it at that price, only to see it in the paper or on TV at my price a couple weeks later. Dumbshits will pay to advertise it before they would call me back.

At least I'm not alone.

I'm going to try once more tomorrow. I'll call the sales manager.

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

Hi, Joe. Scott from Rochester. Met you and Marc last summer in Wabasha.

Like stated above, wait until the last half of the month. I was trying to buy a loaded Honda Civic for my wife 12 years ago, and started the process mid-month. The arrogant young pr*ck trying to sell me the car used every old cliche trick in the book. My wife and I went for a short test drive, with her driving, and when we came back, the guy almost runs out to greet us. He opens her door and says, "Boy, do you ever look good in this car!". If looks could kill, my wife would still be in prison.

Anyway, we just waited him out, either ignoring his calls, or telling him he still wasn't low enough. With a couple days left until the end of the month, he finally started working harder. When he got within $50 of what I had initially told him was the price I wanted, I said OK to the deal. This was a price that 2 weeks earlier had been utterly repulsive to him, causing him to laugh and almost vomit at the same time. How dare I insult his intelligence like that!

At most dealerships, the sales personnel have monthly incentives provided by the manufacturer or the dealership. They want that free 3-day trip to Vegas or whatever the boss is promising that month. Use it to your advantage. You're smart enough to know how to do this......after all, you ride an FJR! You have complete and total power until you sign that paper. Times are tough, and a lot of those dealers got real fat for a lot of years when times were better. Make him earn his dollar.

Go get 'em, Joe! Hopefully we'll see you sometime this summer. Going through Wabasha Saturday, to meet up with a riding buddy. 10AM, same spot that I met you and Marc last summer.....meet us there if you like. Seeya!

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Go get 'em, Joe! Hopefully we'll see you sometime this summer. Going through Wabasha Saturday, to meet up with a riding buddy. 10AM, same spot that I met you and Marc last summer.....meet us there if you like. Seeya!

I would, but Marc, Scoobyvroom, another buddy of mine on a C14 and I will be on our way to the Ozarks.

Another time though, maybe CFO?

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

Go get 'em, Joe! Hopefully we'll see you sometime this summer. Going through Wabasha Saturday, to meet up with a riding buddy. 10AM, same spot that I met you and Marc last summer.....meet us there if you like. Seeya!

I would, but Marc, Scoobyvroom, another buddy of mine on a C14 and I will be on our way to the Ozarks.

Another time though, maybe CFO?

Awesome, Joe! Never been there, but heard the riding is good. As far as CFO, I may make it down for the day to ride. I can't commit yet, because I might meet a friend at RoadAmerica that weekend for the AHMRA Historic bike races. I'm dying to hear a Ducati 888 SPO at full honk again for the first time in about 15 years......Ride safe on your trip, and have fun.

 

[jcyuhn]

Let's make sure we understand you here. Invoice less holdback is the dealers actual cost. And they are passing all the incentive cash to you as well. So isn't that price equal to their actual cost? Any lower and they are selling you the truck below their payoff (I'm assuming they floor plan.) Shoot, they are already loosing money on it; they've been paying interest every month while it sits on their lot, and they are not recovering those interest payments. Why do you think any dealer would be willing to go lower?

Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your terms.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I can get the price down to invoice, less the hold back, less the Ford customer incentive. Then, we reach an impasse. The sales manager either tells the salesman to tell me to piss off, or the salesman/saleswoman himself/herself tells me to piss off.
So, that means that I'm done, right? Well, not exactly.

Let's make sure we understand you here. Invoice less holdback is the dealers actual cost.

That's what I thought. Last Wednesday, I went directly from the dealer to my bank.

While I was waiting for the loan officer to hear back from underwriting, I went home. That's when the phone rang. It was a salesman from one of the other dealers. I told him I had found a truck, and that I had just come from the bank.

So, how is it that this salesman can get me a better price on truck that's not even on his lot?

What is his incentive? He is only going to get a cut. The exchange will need to be made between dealers. What is the dealer's incentive to get a vehicle from another dealer, pay the salesman's commission, etc?

What am I not understanding here?

Oh, by the way... I'm running out of time. I talked to the sales manager this morning and she's waiting for me to call back.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

The deal is done.

I probably paid too much, but I have a trip to get ready for and I need to pack.

 

[jcyuhn]

The deal is done.
I probably paid too much, but I have a trip to get ready for and I need to pack.

I doubt you paid too much. My gut feel is the 2nd salesman was jerking you around, just trying to disrupt the deal you had in place to keep you in the market, and then figure out how to make you his customer. If he really had anything to offer you, it would have been on the table before.

Trading cars between dealers is not that complex. The dealers don't actually own them - they buy on credit. Only when the car is sold do they pay for the car. So swapping a car between dealers does not involve a sale, just a transfer of the liability to pay for it when it does sell. There is no commission or any such thing between the dealers.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I doubt you paid too much.

Thanks jcyuhn. I've need a truck for a long time. I tried to find a decent used truck, but those aren't cheap either. Plus, I would have to deal with an extra, occasional use vehicle in the driveway.

It's a good thing I'll be too busy this next week to think about the buyer's remorse.

I guess I need to update my info in the FJR Assistance Directory next

 

[FJRBluesman]

If you bought it, you thought it was worth it. No worries.

I have had excellent deals at dealerships and from brokers.

I used a buyers guide, I forget the name now, Johnson buyers guide, or something... it had all the manufacturers costs shipping, fees, charges, etc. It also mentioned any cash back deals, etc. The incentives are the tricky part. The dealer may be heavily incentivized by the Mfgr due to high sales volume etc. You don’t know. I've had some dealers basically laugh me out the door for my absurd offer, then I went to another dealer, did the same offer and I negotiated them down about another $1,500 less then I expected to pay. When they accepted, I thought, "uh oh, I'm getting screwed." But I was willing to pay $1,500 more per the guide I used. I'm sure they were a high volume dealer of the car I bought.

The other thing I do is look for those cheesy sale ads in the paper, you know only one or two at this price. I purchased two cars that way. I also had some GM credits and a GM discount that added to the deal on my Suburban. I ended up getting a killer deal on that! For almost two years, I could have sold it for what I bought it for.

One problem you also run into is supply and demand. Big trucks usually are in high demand so they may not deal on them. I see many discounted vehicles etc and trucks are many times excluded. You would think that the economy and gas prices would have those prices down but…. Sometime not.

You may also have to drive farther to a dealer to get what you want, maybe even out of state. That creates other problems too, like in Cali you can't bring in a new car with under 7,500 miles. They have a huge host of reasons, none Cali smogged, tax dodging, etc.

Enjoy your new truck.

 

[TheZsdad]

I doubt you paid too much. My gut feel is the 2nd salesman was jerking you around, just trying to disrupt the deal you had in place to keep you in the market, and then figure out how to make you his customer. If he really had anything to offer you, it would have been on the table before.

Trading cars between dealers is not that complex. The dealers don't actually own them - they buy on credit. Only when the car is sold do they pay for the car. So swapping a car between dealers does not involve a sale, just a transfer of the liability to pay for it when it does sell. There is no commission or any such thing between the dealers.

Gunny...

 

[juniorfjr]

Soooo. Gas or Diesel?