New tick repair problem, bad things...

[Geezer]

It is hard to say anything conclusive without actually seeing it, but I wonder if they let some coolant mix with the oil when they pulled the head. That could happen if they didn't drain the coolant down before loosening the head bolts. It would certainly change the color of your oil and account for an increase in volume.

That doesn't account for the metalic particles but it would say something about the quality of the work.

 

[twowheelnut]

Sorry to hear of this latest development, Bob.

 

[Toecutter]

Wow, massive response! Thanks for all the good thoughts and collective insight. I'm thinkin' that this might not be all that bad (for my bike) after all. If they lied about changing oil (since I asked them if they were going to before I dropped off the bike) the stuff in it (Rotella syn) had been there almost 5000 miles. If some metal from the tranny is normal, then that could account for the metallic gleam. I also figured that maybe some coolant had gotten into the crankcase. But they should have known that and changed the oil as a result. I recovered a gallon jug and a mayonnaise jar full of oil or whatever that was. It looked like oil when it was pouring out.

Bottom line- It looks a lot like some seriously shoddy work done by them. I shudder to think of what other horrors may be lurking in the bowels of my bike due to the lack of attention to detail. I'm sure glad they knew enough to farm the head work out. They could have called me once during the process and asked me if I was willing to spring for an oil filter, rather than assuming I wouldn't. If I wouldn't have been calling them, I imagine I would have dropped the bike off and they would have called me six weeks later to come pick it up. That's just not good business, at least not good enough to keep me coming back.

On the other hand, if they did change the oil, which I seriously doubt, since oil just can't get that dirty in 15 miles, something really bad is going on. I put 330 miles on the bike yesterday afternoon , and the oil still looks pretty clear in the sight glass. I'll change it again after Sunday's ride (probably another 400) and see what it looks like.

Oh dopey me has an appointment to take it in there again Wednesday to check out a miss. The service manager told me they have a dyno. "A dyno?" I said. "It'll be interesting to see if it will still make 145 horsepower after having all that metal go through it". "It will", said the service manager. We'll see. If they're fixin' to charge me to check it out, I'm outta there, and going out of town for future work I can't do myself. I've exhausted all the dealers in town.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Ya know what really sucks about this whole thing, is that all of us KNOW a competent wrench that doesn't work for a stealer, but can't do these type of jobs because of that. :angry:

I've used the same guy for the last ten years (he used to work for a multi line dealer years ago) and never spent a dime with the dealer I bought the two bikes from and we all know why. Mental midgets twistin' wrenches and double the price of my local wrench.

Hope everythiongs workin' out for ya toecutter

Barry

 

[sks700]

My Victory has a magnet on the drain plug. You should see all of the crap that is stuck to it every time I change the oil.

I would be willing to bet that they never changed the oil and you are looking at your 5000 mile old stuff. An oil change probably isn't standard procedure for top end work. Do they change the oil after a vavle clearance check/adjustment?

Lee

 

[Toecutter]

I would be willing to bet that they never changed the oil and you are looking at your 5000 mile old stuff. 

Me too. Which means they lied about changing it. I asked before they did the work and they said they were going to change it. That's why I left the old stuff in. Thursday the service manager reiterated that it was "All fresh oil". I doubt it.

An oil change probably isn't standard procedure for top end work.

It should be, if they're going to contaminate it with coolant by taking the head off. Some extra something got in there, and I doubt it was oil.

Do they change the oil after a vavle clearance check/adjustment?

Probably not, unless it's part of requested service, since the coolant seal isn't broken (like when taking off the head).

 

[Ramblin Man]

What it sounds like to me is that when the head had the new guides installed it picked up a bunch of debris. When they got it back they probably just slapped it on without washing it and blowing it dry so your motor did all the cleaning.

A little blasting media and metal shavings in your oil never hurt anyone, right?

Still think there should be a section here for nothing but bad dealer reports. Sort of the BBB complaint division of FJR forums, complete with an email to the dealer with a link to the complaint.

FYI, when my head was replaced I got new oil, filter, and plugs.

 

[radman]

My Victory has a magnet on the drain plug. You should see all of the crap that is stuck to it every time I change the oil.
I would be willing to bet that they never changed the oil and you are looking at your 5000 mile old stuff. An oil change probably isn't standard procedure for top end work. Do they change the oil after a vavle clearance check/adjustment?

Lee

The final drive drain plug is a perfect replacement for the engine drain plug, I did this so long ago I had forgotten about it. It has a magnet on it to catch any stray ferrous bits that may pass it's way, but will ignore those that are not iron based. Thanks for the reminder Lee.

 

[FJRick]

Radman,

I'm new at this FJR stuff. Are you saying I can just go to the dealer and order a final drive drain plug (is this the plug for the shaft drive?) and it has a built in magnet and replace the normal engine drain plug after my 1st oil change?

 

[Toecutter]

The final drive drain plug is a perfect replacement for the engine drain plug, I did this so long ago I had forgotten about it. It has a magnet on it to catch any stray ferrous    bits that may pass it's way, but will ignore those that are not iron based.  Thanks for the reminder Lee.

Thanks Rad, good tip! :thumbup:

I'm new at this FJR stuff.  Are you saying I can just go to the dealer and order a final drive drain plug (is this the plug for the shaft drive?) and it has a built in magnet and replace the normal engine drain plug after my 1st oil change?

Yep, that's pretty much it. Call Gary Mc Coy, University Motors 866-551-6478 for good prices and service on parts. Also get some oil filters and spare drain bolt crush washers while you're at it.

What it sounds like to me is that when the head had the new guides installed it picked up a bunch of debris. When they got it back they probably just slapped it on without washing it and blowing it dry so your motor did all the cleaning.

Believe me, I already thought of that possibility. That's the definite worst case scenario, but the less-than-credible service manager told me Thursday that he saw the tech wash down the head before putting it back on the bike. The oil analysis won't lie though, and I'm looking forward to THAT report.

Still think there should be a section here for nothing but bad dealer reports. Sort of the BBB complaint division of FJR forums, complete with an email to the dealer with a link to the complaint.

How 'bout a section for GOOD dealer reports? It would use up a lot less bandwidth.

 

[radman]

Radman,I'm new at this FJR stuff. Are you saying I can just go to the dealer and order a final drive drain plug (is this the plug for the shaft drive?) and it has a built in magnet and replace the normal engine drain plug after my 1st oil change?

Yup. New guy tip #2, take the plug or one of the old crush washers to an auto parts dealer and get 3 copper brake washers same size, replace the two drain plug and final drive fill plug crush washers with them. Re-useable forever.

 

[radman]

What it sounds like to me is that when the head had the new guides installed it picked up a bunch of debris. When they got it back they probably just slapped it on without washing it and blowing it dry so your motor did all the cleaning.
A little blasting media and metal shavings in your oil never hurt anyone, right?

Still think there should be a section here for nothing but bad dealer reports. Sort of the BBB complaint division of FJR forums, complete with an email to the dealer with a link to the complaint.

FYI, when my head was replaced I got new oil, filter, and plugs.

Agreed. A good motor assembly room resembles an operating room, and the same standards apply. Brake cleaner and compressed air are cheap and effective. What a dump. <_<

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Sorry dude about your troubled FJR. They didn't change my oil either. After the valve cover gasket leaked on the return trip to the dealer for that repair I made them change the iol. I bought the oil and they supplied the labor and the filter. I am getting a coolant smell but after checking for leaks and the resivoir, which by the way is overfilled, I am thinking it is burnoff from draining or removing or what ever they did when they repaired the ticker.

Hope you get it staightened out.

 

[FJRay]

if they do put it on the dyno make damn sure they take the lowers off and have some big ass fans in front and on the exhaust. i couldn't belive the heat when they were doing the mapping on mine when the pc was installed. without extra cooling bad things will surely happen.

 

[Ramblin Man]

How 'bout a section for GOOD dealer reports? It would use up a lot less bandwidth.

I think we need that too, but what I'm suggesting is more a warning to others.

These guys weren't willing to shell out the 11 bucks retail for a new filter for a motor that just had a major service done to it and had sat open for who knows how long. Not only that but they didn't even stop surfing internet porn long enough to call you and ask if you wanted a new filter.

I know busineses are in business to make money, and giving filters away doesn't make any money.

But I also know that it costs less to keep a customer than it does to get a new one, and bottom line that dealer sounds like he doesn't care if he has your business or not. If he doesn't care then who knows whats happening to your bike when you leave.

Ahhh, I'm just bitching.

 

[crewof1]

But I also know that it costs less to keep a customer than it does to get a new one, and bottom line that dealer sounds like he doesn't care if he has your business or not. If he doesn't care then who knows whats happening to your bike when you leave.
Ahhh, I'm just bitching.

But a very valid point.

Sorry about your troubles TC.

 

[Toecutter]

How 'bout a section for GOOD dealer reports? It would use up a lot less bandwidth.

I think we need that too, but what I'm suggesting is more a warning to others.

I do agree, it would be a great idea, but tough to implement in an equitable fashion. It has been discussed before and issues of misperceptions and slander were raised.

Edit- Maybe I'll just email them the links to the three threads I started about my tick repair, and they can read for themselves what most of the other FJR owners are finding out about their business practices. Probably another big waste of time...

These guys weren't willing to shell out the 11 bucks retail for a new filter for a motor that just had a major service done to it and had sat open for who knows how long. Not only that but they didn't even stop surfing internet porn long enough to call you and ask if you wanted a new filter.

Not even after I called them to check whether or not they were going to re-use my coolant. They said they weren't, and I told them I would be willing to pay for new stuff if it wasn't covered. They could have used that information to assume I would probably also spring for a new filter, then a quick call would have approved it, and they would make more money. Seems like a win-win for them. They probably didn't think of it because they never drained the old oil.

I also know that it costs less to keep a customer than it does to get a new one, and bottom line that dealer sounds like he doesn't care if he has your business or not. If he doesn't care then who knows whats happening to your bike when you leave.

Exactly. Which is why I must now shop for a new place to get work done. Finding someone who will treat my bike like it were their own may be impossible, but there's also a chance it will happen, which makes the search justified.

if they do put it on the dyno make damn sure they take the lowers off and have some big ass fans in front and on the exhaust. i couldn't belive the heat when they were doing the mapping on mine when the pc was installed. without extra cooling bad things will surely happen.

How long was your bike running on it? I don't imagine it will take very long to see what it's putting out, but I'll be around to monitor things anyway. Thanks for the heads-up!

New guy tip #2, take the plug or one of the old crush washers to an auto parts dealer and get 3 copper brake washers same size, replace the two drain plug and final drive fill plug crush washers with them. Re-useable forever.

You could also take the whole bike down there, pull the fill plug for the diff and take it in to get a match without any problems or extra trips. I'll get that taken care of on my next trip to the parts store. Thanks again! Any different torque numbers for the copper washers?

 

[slapnpop]

How 'bout a section for GOOD dealer reports? It would use up a lot less bandwidth.

I think we need that too, but what I'm suggesting is more a warning to others.

I do agree, it would be a great idea, but tough to implement in an equitable fashion. It has been discussed before and issues of misperceptions and slander were raised.

I've talked about doing this for a while, but the other admins didn't jump on board.

Since this question has come up again, I've added a dealer reports section. The formating is going to be strict, so read the first post in the section.

Slanderous or rediculous complaints will simply be deleted.

 

[dcarver]

CONGRATS SlapnPop.. Well done. Thank You. Ain't it grand to be the man?

 

[radman]

New guy tip #2, take the plug or one of the old crush washers to an auto parts dealer and get 3 copper brake washers same size, replace the two drain plug and final drive fill plug crush washers with them. Re-useable forever.

You could also take the whole bike down there, pull the fill plug for the diff and take it in to get a match without any problems or extra trips. I'll get that taken care of on my next trip to the parts store. Thanks again! Any different torque numbers for the copper washers?

Cut the torque by 10% at least. Frankly, I never torque drain plugs, I just snug them up by feel. The torque value Yam gives is IMHO too tight, and as a result many strip them on their first try. Since the coppers don't "crush", the torque setting and "feel" remains the same throughout their life, which is literally forever.