New Yamaha peS1 electric

[allrider]

https://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/11/20/manufacturers/yamaha/new-photos-video-yamaha-pes1-electric-concept/

What do you think of Yamaha's newest bike?

Kinda sounds like the bikes from the Tron movie.

 

[graler]

I am gonna take a clothspin and some baseball cards and make it sound like a motorcycle.

 

[PhilJet09]

I think it's a really neat looking bike. Too bad it appears to be way too small for most Americans (not me though). I really WANT to like electric vehicles, but haven't found a truly practical one yet. They are either way too expensive or have too little range. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this concept bike though.

 

[ionbeam]

Electric vehicles are still a work in progress. A hundred years ago you would manually prime the carb, use a steering wheel lever to advance the ignition timing, go out front, insert the crank handle and pull yourself out of your shoes cranking the engine. Either it would start or break your arm. Car tires lasted less distance than a motorcycle sport tire. Once you got it all fired up and ready to go -- there was no place to go because the road system hadn't been developed yet. Electrical vehicles need time to mature. There are some other alternative power sources that may pass batteries, such as fuel cells.

My flux capacitor still isn't ready for a motorcycle. I haven't figured out how to make the the cryogenic refrigeration small enough to use zero resistance super conductors. But damn, I'm sure there is a way to hot-rod the electric bike. Perhaps a liquid N2 jacket for the motor...

Right now state of the art electrical street bikes have a range around 90 miles and can make 130 hp and almost 150 lb/ft of torque. This level of bike will cost you at least $30k to get started and as much as $75k for longer distance and quicker charging.

They tend to be fussy eaters, taking 4 or more hours to recharge the top of the line batteries at 220 VAC and 8 hours for lesser batteries. As Tesla and other electric car companies start putting up rapid charge stations you will be able to get 80% charge in ~30 minutes. Anything electrical like lighting, signaling and instrument lighting all takes away from the motor.

On the other hand, it delivers power like an electrical motor

At a dead stop the motor will have 100% torque available and the acceleration is linear. Popping the throttle open at any rpm up to 3/4 throttle is a kick in the pants. There is so much torque that many E-Bikes have power restricted up to 10-15 mph.

I like the idea of the electric cars and bikes and encourage early adapters to push the technology forward. For now I wait, and may not have enough time left to see a gas equivalent vehicle at a gas vehicle price.

BTW, wild man Fred W is an electric vehicle user, shhh don't embarrass him by telling anyone

 

[leedavis]

This stuff will remain mostly a novelty...until somebody invents a battery with several times more energy density or one with current capacity but can be charged in about the same amount of time it takes for you to fill up with gas.

 

[infrared]

Given the state of the art, I can see two paths for electric vehicles: either wait and hope (maybe forever) that somebody invents a light, small, energy-dense battery system, or deal straight with the battery technology that we now have. Real-world riding (excluding track days) simply does not require a huge power source, but does require a lot of power on tap, for short bursts. For now, I think the best answer is a hybrid. You need enough battery capacity to provide good acceleration, and a steady source of power that (on average) can stay just ahead of the average demands needed on the average trips. The "continuous" power needed for daily driving is really not that great. You just need to generate more than cruising power, and store the excess until needed later, for strong acceleration.

I would propose having an adequate electric motor and battery pack, and you can pick your poison, there. Feed it with (ideally) a small fuel cell, powered by natural gas or hydrogen. A cylinder of gas would be similar to the bottles used with a hand-held propane torch, and equally replaceable, on the road. This "power source" for your batteries would easily fit into one specialized pannier. For fast touring, the other pannier could double the power available.

As of now, we carry a lot of weight to provide the big power that is really enjoyable, but not needed, for most of the time. An electric hybrid could give at least as much performance, with much less weight, machinery, and complexity. Certainly you could extend your range by charging from the power grid when parked, but you would never need to sit and wait for a charge to be completed, since the on-board charging system would be designed to stay ahead of the normal demands for power. You could find yourself cruising for some duration, at times, on the batteries alone. Unlike conventional vehicles, all of the power produced by fuel would be used, at some point, to propel the vehicle. The powered generator (fuel cell) would not be wasting energy when cruising; any excess power just goes into the battery pack, for use later.

This hybrid system has long been proven in cars, by a man who sold DIY hybrid car conversion plans in Mother Earth News in the 1970s. Commercial car makers have diluted the hybrid concept almost to uselessness, but the original concept of making "just enough" average power from fuel is a good one, with the burst capability on tap when needed from the batteries. The announced (and achieved) goal of the MEN hybrid car was 75 MPG (3.14 L/100km) back then, using only the technology that existed in WW2. Modern technology has since added a bit more to that performance, of course.

DIY Hybrid car

Cheers,

Infrared

 

[RadioHowie]

Give it a 100 mile range, a top speed of 80mph and sign me up....

....but at 6'4", 230 pounds, this is what I'd look like on a peS1....

 

[airboss]

Are This.

 

[ionbeam]

....but at 6'4", 230 pounds, this is what I'd look like on a peS1....

The mirror 'Howie was looking in to arrive at those numbers:

 

[Fly Bye]

I am surprised the technology is not there yet for a viable street/road electric motorcycle.

Drag racing motorcycles can go 201 mph in 6.9 seconds, and these are not built by big corporations but by privateers.

Perhaps I am too critical. I thought we would be farther than we are.

 

[bhendron]

I like it, but can we stop it with these headlights?! Ever damn new naked bike seems to have it's own version of this shape. Ugly as hell IMO.

 

[ionbeam]

I am surprised the technology is not there yet for a viable street/road electric motorcycle

Gasoline is actually a marvel. The amount of energy it contains and the energy density is unsurpassed for non nuclear energy. We really don't realize how much energy we are putting in our tanks; there is nothing really close to the energy potential in such a small volume except for profane propane. Electrical storage devices are so far below gas as an energy source that it isn't even in the ballgame. But, the 1,200 pound battery isn't consumable the way gas is, once gas is burned (and you have breathed the fumes) it is gone, the battery is just refilled -- hopefully with sunshine (nuclear) and wind generated electrons. If you fill your battery with electrons from oil, coal or ecologically unfriendly dams you may as well just burn gas directly.

Storage material Specific energy (MJ/kg) Energy density (MJ/L)

Uranium-235 83,140,000 1,546,000,000

Hydrogen (compressed at 70 MPa) 123 5.6

Gasoline (petrol) / Diesel ~46 ~36

Propane (including LPG) 46.4 26

Fat (animal/vegetable) 37

Coal 24

Carbohydrates (including sugars) 17

Protein 16.8

Wood 16.2

TNT 4.6

Gunpowder 3

Lithium battery (non-rechargeable) 1.8

Lithium-ion battery 0.36 4.32

Alkaline battery 0.67 - 1.8 0.9–2.63

Nickel-metal hydride battery 0.288 1.8

Lead-acid battery 0.17 0.504–1.08

Supercapacitor 0.018 0.34

Electrostatic capacitor 0.000036

I like it, but can we stop it with these headlights?! Ever damn new naked bike seems to have it's own version of this shape. Ugly as hell IMO.

Battery powered vehicles is one application where LED lighting is the only way to go due to their efficiency in 12 volt circuits. Anything with a filament wastes almost all the energy used as waste heat without the side benefit of extremely bright light. Because of the light dispersion of LEDs they dictate reflector shapes that us oldies aren't used to seeing.

 

[RadioHowie]

....but at 6'4", 230 pounds, this is what I'd look like on a peS1....

The mirror 'Howie was looking in to arrive at those numbers:

WHY I OUGHTA.........

....but seriously.....I've lost 60 pounds in the last year. The wife's cooking (when she actually DOES cook) SUCKS!!!

 

[HotRodZilla]

I donno why we can't just go nuclear...Figure a piece or Uranium the size of an acorn would power a car for the life of the car. People would start driving better because crashes would have the potential to be "spectacular."

 

[Top_Speed1]

I donno why we can't just go nuclear...Figure a piece or Uranium the size of an acorn would power a car for the life of the car. People would start driving better because crashes would have the potential to be "spectacular."

Kuntucky funn...

"Kids.. get out dem lawn chairs! Sumbody dun crashed in da State jus sowfa iss!"

 

[wheatonFJR]

I donno why we can't just go nuclear...Figure a piece or Uranium the size of an acorn would power a car for the life of the car. People would start driving better because crashes would have the potential to be "spectacular."

You just like that idear cuz then there's no roadside accident investigation work afterwards..

 

[Fly Bye]

I don't see the technology in battery powered vehicles going anywhere too soon.

I would like to know why the use of CNG is not going anywhere either.

There are pro's and con's but the pro's are, it is cheap, there is plenty of it and it burns clean.

Can someone shed some light on this?

 

[ionbeam]

I don't see the technology in battery powered vehicles going anywhere too soon...I would like to know why the use of CNG is not going anywhere either...Can someone shed some light on this?

I agree that batteries will not be the final solution unless there is some kind of a breakthrough in process. I haven't read or heard of anything big coming soon. CNG is indeed growing, and growing at roughly 25%-30% per year. As usual, the growth is not happening in the US nearly as much as the rest of the world.

A car club friend had a car that was converted to run on CNG. The energy density of CNG is only about 25% that of gas. The tank was very expensive, very big and heavy, I have pixs if you are interested. His car ran very clean and had a more relaxed maintenance schedule. He lost the use of his trunk, his car was seriously slower, the equivalent fuel consumption was greater and he had to plan his trips to be able to get a fill.

With the current infrastructure for CNG, it will be good for commercial vehicles but isn't ready for public use. Even when stored at 3,600 psi CNG still requires a tank too big for motorcycle use, at least for the motorcycle as we know it today. Even with the super tanks for CNG I still have the mental image of HotRodZilla's accident picture in my mind the way us 'mericans drive.

 

[Fly Bye]

ionbeam, Thanks for the info.

I was not clear on the shortcomings of CNG.

Looks like it has a ways to go before it is ready for consumer use.