Noob with some questions

[Bruce McCrary]

Those that read my intro know that I have recently made the switch from an '04 Kawasaki Nomad that we bought new and put nearly 40K miles on, to an '07 FJR. Those that didn't read it now know too. Anyway, you may have heard these questions before, and I have tried the search with no real results, so thought I'd through these out there.

No, it's not another oil thread.

First; I knew that coming from a cruiser and that riding position there would be some...adjustments to make with the FJR. The first ride on it was a 300 mile 'test ride' that the end of the day and the following week were no different than any other. The following rides were another 300 miler, a 150 mile one, and this past week-end a 350 mile ride. In these last three rides my back has been killing me! After the second ride and before the third I installed handlebar risers and foot peg relocators and while that made the bike more comfortable, it did nothing to ease the pain later. I'm assuming that it's simply a matter of letting muscles not used before get used to being used, but jeeze... Anyone else go through this?

Second; After installing the peg relocators I'm already having some minor peg dragging issues. Not terrible, and not an issue really, and no I'm not a 'hero' rider. I do enjoy a spirited ride through the mountain twisites but in this case I've still got roughly a 1/4 inch of 'chicken strips' left on the tires so I know I'm not leaning that far over. Unfortunately. I have a lot of experience in off road racing and suspension set up so I'm leaning towards that I probably have to much laden sag or what we used to call 'race sag' in the suspension. But coming from 12" of travel to... whatever the FJR has, I'm not sure what the proper amount should be so that I can check it.

Third; The P/O told me that the only recall he had done was the Yamaha trunk plate replacement, even though it doesn't show up on YDS. According to Yamaha that still needs to be done, as does the ignition switch and ECU replacement. I've got an ignition switch recall kit in stock and it comes with new keys, what about the other locks? I feel that if Yamaha has an issue that is not of any fault of my own, I shouldn't have to run around with two sets of keys. Our Service Manager thinks he can take the switches apart and re-use the top half of my old switch to avoid this, but we haven't tried it yet, so... With the ECU, another local dealer that was cut off by Yamaha (long story) ordered one from me for one of his customers, and it has been on back order for literally months. A phone call (three actually) to Yamaha has gotten me the same answer, "We feel that all the bikes effected by this have been repaired." "More replacement ECU's may be produced, but we don't know when." In a nutshell Yamaha feels (as it was explained to me) that not every '07 needs the replacement and that only bikes ridden at high altitudes consistently are in need of the replacement. To be honest, this past week-end my wife and I were on the BRP near Mt Mitchell and I didn't notice any problems, but searches on this and other forums have shown me that many '07 owners feel that they needed this done period. I'd love to hear comments and thoughts on this.

Thanks!

Bruce

 

[dsmack]

Welcome, Bruce!

Just a quicky, heading out to work... the dealer is supposed to re-key the new lock cylinder to match your existing locks so you don't end up with two sets of keys. Some do not offer to do this, but it is part of the recall installation instructions. Ask for it very firmly, and I'll bet you'll be OK

Can't speak to the ECU situation...

Ride On!

Don

 

[Bigbeavk]

FYI

On my 07 i did noticed some hesitation the 1st time I hit some higher elevations. While I was waiting to get my ECU I had posted my frustrations with the long wait and my pending trip to the same area you just mentioned. It was suggested that if I just keep working the throttle on the way up the mountains I would have no issues. I found this to be true. Not all ECU's showed this problem probably because in any manufacturing process new revisions are issued during the year and this may be the reason some have an issue and some don't. Also some people's riding style just may be more aggressive and the problem is taken care of that way by keeping the throttle moving. You didn't mention whether you have the G2 throttle tube or the return spring mod performed. I highly recomend both of these if you haven't done them.

I also came from a cruiser style bike to the FJR and it does take a while to get your body used to it. Maybe when I get older I will have another cruiser someday but I love the FJR and with 99% 2 up riding we both are very comfortable. :yahoo:

 

[rainman]

I used to regularly drag pegs......has not happend since I installed a Penske rear-shock.

As far as body fatigue.......as long as I regulary exercise....particulary abs & back.....I am pain-free for long rides.

On those occasions when I get lazy and start skipping the gym.....I am easily fatigued and have back-pain.

I use the FJR as my excuse to keep working out.

 

[wfooshee]

Bringing your feet underneath instead of out front changes everything about your posture, and if you try to sit back like you did before, it's gonna be uncomfortable.

Do a Google on "Master Yoda riding position" and learn it. Does wonders.

Every time I sit a cruiser I find myself slouching, bending my back forward to reach my feet and hands forward. I don't like it, and fail to see how anybody thinks that's the proper way to ride a bike. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to.

 

[v65]

First; I knew that coming from a cruiser and that riding position there would be some...adjustments to make with the FJR. The first ride on it was a 300 mile 'test ride' that the end of the day and the following week were no different than any other. The following rides were another 300 miler, a 150 mile one, and this past week-end a 350 mile ride. In these last three rides my back has been killing me! After the second ride and before the third I installed handlebar risers and foot peg relocators and while that made the bike more comfortable, it did nothing to ease the pain later. I'm assuming that it's simply a matter of letting muscles not used before get used to being used, but jeeze... Anyone else go through this?

How tall are you?

When you sit on the seat you should be leaning forward with your back arched and your arms relaxed. The mods you mod may actually make the problem worse, you want to support yourself with your lower body. By moving the pegs forward you are moving the legs out of the equation. By putting on the bar risers you have yourself sitting more upright, and the two together you are putting a lot of pressure on your lower back.

I came off from a cruiser style seating position, and I can tell you it feels awkward for the first 1000 miles or so. I can guarantee you that it is a far superior riding position for long distance compared to the upright position you are missing.

 

[ahchiu]

I would have all recalls done, check your display for MPG, not AVG MPG but the current reading they have had problems with it reading only 17 MPG max, and the recall for the key is to keep you original tumbler per Yamaha, and if they say you don't need a new ECU for your area tell them it'a a SPORT TOURING BIKE and I ride my bike pass the city limit sign, why wait till your 1,000+ miles from home and find you do need to replace, the recall does not mean everyone will have a problem, but there have been enough to have a recall, find a dealer you can trust I also read one dealer cut the ignition wires from the bike and caused a bunch of electrical problems on the bikes, it's better to ask what seems like stupid questions than assume they know what they are doing this way you will get you bike done right, if you don't feel good about the dealer take it to another dealer. good luck and welcome to FJR family.

Marcus

 

[Bruce McCrary]

Welcome, Bruce!

Thanks!

Just a quicky, heading out to work... the dealer is supposed to re-key the new lock cylinder to match your existing locks so you don't end up with two sets of keys. Some do not offer to do this, but it is part of the recall installation instructions. Ask for it very firmly, and I'll bet you'll be OK

The problem is that the Service Manager is my best friend and we commute to work together. Collectively we've done zero of these, so my bike gets to be the test mule!

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

FYIOn my 07 i did noticed some hesitation the 1st time I hit some higher elevations. While I was waiting to get my ECU I had posted my frustrations with the long wait and my pending trip to the same area you just mentioned. It was suggested that if I just keep working the throttle on the way up the mountains I would have no issues. I found this to be true. Not all ECU's showed this problem probably because in any manufacturing process new revisions are issued during the year and this may be the reason some have an issue and some don't. Also some people's riding style just may be more aggressive and the problem is taken care of that way by keeping the throttle moving. You didn't mention whether you have the G2 throttle tube or the return spring mod performed. I highly recomend both of these if you haven't done them.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

Yep, did the G2 and the throttle spring mods. At this point I'm more impressed with the throttle spring mod than the G2 tube, but I may not have given the stock tube enough 'seat time' to make a really accurate comparison. No matter, it stays. I'll take the quality knurled aluminum tube over a plastic one any day!

I also came from a cruiser style bike to the FJR and it does take a while to get your body used to it. Maybe when I get older I will have another cruiser someday but I love the FJR and with 99% 2 up riding we both are very comfortable. :yahoo:

I believe that's the whole thing. In fact, I wasn't as sore today as I have been the last two rides so I feel like things are getting better. The funny thing is, I have ZERO problems while riding, it's just afterward, usually the next day or three. My wife has a few...snivels, that we're working on, but no real complaints. In fact, she really seems to enjoy it.

I was seriously considering the new Voyager but was soooo disappointed by the decisions that Kawasaki made with it that I wrote it off my list. We got our first one on the floor today and while it is a much improved bike over the show mules I saw previously after riding the FJR it would be tough to make that change I think.

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

I used to regularly drag pegs......has not happend since I installed a Penske rear-shock.

What do you attribute that too? Stiffer spring rate? Different dampening? Longer eye to eye length?

As far as body fatigue.......as long as I regulary exercise....particulary abs & back.....I am pain-free for long rides.On those occasions when I get lazy and start skipping the gym.....I am easily fatigued and have back-pain.

I use the FJR as my excuse to keep working out.

Ouch! Now you sound like my wife! *lol* She has been saying that if I'd lose my gut there wouldn't be so much tugging at my back! *sigh* I know she's right of course, and I should go to the gym more... Ok, I should just go period, but I leave so early for the shop and never seem to get home before 7:30 if then...

I know, i know. Want some cheese with that whine there Bruce?

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

Bringing your feet underneath instead of out front changes everything about your posture, and if you try to sit back like you did before, it's gonna be uncomfortable.

It's not uncomfortable, just different. I'm not really trying to sit like I was on a cruiser, just find the right combination of what works and not suffering the next week. Which as I said in another reply, seems to be getting at least a little better.

Do a Google on "Master Yoda riding position" and learn it. Does wonders.

OK, gotcha. Will do. Thanks.

Every time I sit a cruiser I find myself slouching, bending my back forward to reach my feet and hands forward. I don't like it, and fail to see how anybody thinks that's the proper way to ride a bike. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to.

It's not really about 'proper' as much as it's about... I don't know... Sitting in a recliner. No, you don't have as much 'control' of the bike in that position, and although I've had a lot of fun rides on the old Nomad, I never could feel totally in control when I rode the bike 'aggressively' if that makes any sense. I've been hearing a lot about how after I get some more time on the FJR I'll be able to ride more miles than I did on the Nomad, I can see that. But I've had some loooong days on it too. Like you said, it's a matter of what your used to.

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

How tall are you?

6', 250 lbs, 50 years old.

When you sit on the seat you should be leaning forward with your back arched and your arms relaxed. The mods you mod may actually make the problem worse, you want to support yourself with your lower body. By moving the pegs forward you are moving the legs out of the equation. By putting on the bar risers you have yourself sitting more upright, and the two together you are putting a lot of pressure on your lower back.

I see what your saying and not discounting it at all. I may remove the relocators and risers one day soon and try it again with out them. But for the time being I really like the way the bike feels now. I feel that I am supporting myself with my lower back and thats what has been hurting! But see, I had a drivers back rest on top of sitting in a recliner position, so I'm thinking my lower back is protesting from actually being used! *lol*

I came off from a cruiser style seating position, and I can tell you it feels awkward for the first 1000 miles or so. I can guarantee you that it is a far superior riding position for long distance compared to the upright position you are missing.

I can see that, and I guess that was part of the reason I wanted to try a S/T. Tell you something else that I found out this week-end that most of you will probably get a laugh out of. Boots make a world of difference! I'd been riding in Justin ropers with an oil resistant no slip sole. You know, western boots. Works well on a cruiser with floor boards, but SUCK with pegs! My feet would get 'hooked' in the pocket of the sole just before the heel of the boot and they were tough to move around in. I was thinking I might like some of those highway pegs I've seen because my knees would be killing me after a while. This past week-end I tried some lace up work boots I've had from back in the days of building hare scramble courses. No real pronounced heel and a no slip sole, but one that allowed me to move a bit. Whoa Nelly what a difference that made! I just alternated my footing position from the back of my heels (highway time) to the balls of my feet (in the twisites and on the highway just to move them some) and as I said, incredible difference in not only control, but how long I could stay comfortable.

Guess there will be some real riding boots in my future... I always had real good luck with Alpine Stars off-road, maybe I'll give them a shot on road. Any thoughts there?

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

I would have all recalls done, check your display for MPG, not AVG MPG but the current reading they have had problems with it reading only 17 MPG max...

No problem there. Neat feature too, isn't it?

...and the recall for the key is to keep you original tumbler per Yamaha...

I'm sure you're right, it's probably just that I haven't read the recall all the way through yet, nor has my bud, the S/M. This is his first time at a Yamaha dealership and my first non-dysfunctional one. FJR's have been kinda rare for us, you know?

...and if they say you don't need a new ECU for your area tell them it's a SPORT TOURING BIKE and I ride my bike pass the city limit sign...

Good point. But that still won't make it available. I checked today and I've had one on back order for over two months now!

...find a dealer you can trust...

I have, it's me!

...good luck and welcome to FJR family.

Thanks! It's great to be here!!

Bruce

 

[Bruce McCrary]

Do a Google on "Master Yoda riding position" and learn it. Does wonders.

Found several references to it, and a 'condensed version' on "Midlife Riders" (I think) that was informative.

As I read I found that "Yoda" is a BMW/FJR guy and apparently the whole 'position' thing started as a thread on the "BMW Sport Tourers Forum", so I went there and looked around. I found this posted by Master Yoda (Dick Frantz) himself when a poster asked him specifically about the FJR as he understood he used to ride, or still currently rides and FJR:

FJR? The Torso Angle it calls for is half way between my K1200RS/GT and my RxxxxRT. In fact, there's a RANGE of Torso Angles available that spans from almost one to almost the other. That's a factor that makes the bike so pleasing to me. More upright and I'm happy across the same or longer distances than when on my RT. Facing curvy sections, I'm "Down, Forward, and In(side)" almost like on the RS - but without the neck strain to hold up my head, and my elbows are more greatly (comfortably) bent.

The only shortcoming to riding position on the FJR, to me, is the foot pegs would be more comfortable 3 inches forward, and that wouldn't impede anything about sporty use. As it is, it's more difficult than it should be to lift one's butt up (and thus provide support for torso erection). Also all else about the body in "normal" position, the toes are pointed way down. It can be very fatiguing to KEEP the feet above the brake and shift controls as one needs to do for long duration in traffic, an also SHOULD be doing in the twisties.

I do use bar-backs on my FJR. That allows a greater elbow bend that I like. Stock it was OK, but after their installation "something" relaxed and I felt much more tension free. It affected "all" my body. It was an experiment that bore great fruit - for me personally.

Bruce

 

[Rick_W]

Bruce - welcome aboard.

I have the Alpinestars Web Gore-Tex boots. Wore them to MS and back last week after only one week of break-in and only had one problem (I put in a new set of insoles that caused the top of my feet to get blisters because they were too tight - my fault not the boots). They are waterproof but they can get rather warm, I just wear good moisture-wicking socks with them.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[Bigbeavk]

Better snatch this up for your new ride.

Clicky

 

[jjsC6]

My suggestion to anyone with a new bike is to put a couple of thousand miles on it before considering modifications that change the riding position or handling. There is an adjustment period - especially if you are coming off a bike that is a cruiser or something that has a totally different riding style. I love the riding position on the FJR, but I rode a friends Ducati 1198 for 150 miles one day. Even though I had 36,000 miles on my FJR - it suddenly felt really wierd to me after the 1198. Imagine the same scenario for someone who has zero miles on the FJR.

 

[v65]

6', 250 lbs, 50 years old.

If you were 5' then I might retract my earlier comments, but it sounds like you are good height for the Feej. I've said this plenty of times but I think it is worth repeating: I consider myself lucky to have gotten the first year Gen II's. When I bought mine there were no risers for the Gen II's yet, otherwise I would have owned them. So I rode the bike stock, and learned after 1000miles that Yamaha had it right.

With the correct posture you can ride this thing all day long and then some with NO back pain. In fact several years ago one rider claimed that riding the FJR improved their back problems. Well I don't want to preach, the Feej is not for everyone, but do give it a chance!

 

[Bruce McCrary]

Well I don't want to preach, the Feej is not for everyone, but do give it a chance!

You misunderstand, you couldn't pry this bike away from me!!! I'm in looooove! My whining was entirely directed at myself. I just have to get some muscles previously not used in condition and carefully evaluate my riding position.

That being said I will respectfully have to disagree with you on any manufacturer "getting it right" on any motorcycle for every individual. I have a 32" inseam and am a little long in the trunk, so making an assumption on the bike fitting me based solely on hight alone is leaving a critical factor on the table. Then there are the individuals personal ergonomic considerations too.

While setting up my off road race bikes I always end up changing handlebars to a "CR High" bend because the bars are roughly an inch higher and don't have the sweep or pull back that others do. The straighter bend on the bar keeps me forward on the bike and my elbows up in the attack position. Yet obviously the only bikes that came with that bend of handlebar were Honda's. My last two race bikes make a perfect example in another way. The last one was a Cannondale E440R. That bike fit me perfectly, all I had to do was change the bars. The KTM 300 prior to that was very 'short' in the relationship of the seat to the footpegs which made it difficult for me to make the transition from sitting to standing. Adding a 10mm higher seat and lowering the pegs 5mm via peg rockers made the bike work better for me.

Back to the FJR, I could see myself losing the peg relocators eventually, but more from a perspective of them dragging in some turns than one of a comfort issue. The thing is, I still don't know what the proper suspension sag for the bike is. For all I know the only reason they are touching down is because I'm way to deep into the suspensions stroke so the bikes ride hight is too low. In fact, I'd almost bet on that being the case. If this is true and I can set it up correctly then the peg scraping issue would in all likelihood disappear and it would once again come back to a personal set up/ergonomics issue.

Bruce