NOT NASCAR!!! PLEASE

[jestal]

Oh, by the way, I may be wrong but as I understand it, there is still one thing that sets these cars apart besides the manufacturer logo, its the block, I still think they have to run the manufacturers block, ie ford block in ford car, chevy block in chevy car, etc. of course by the time they finish machining them, it really doesn't matter.

Only partly right in a very small way.

True that the engine block (and heads and intake manifold) must be "manufactured" by the manufacturer in question. That does NOT mean that the part even remotely resembles anything near to a production part. The implication is, and what the marketing guys hope you believe, is that the part started out as a sort of production part that was modified, rubbed and finished for racing. Wrong. ALL the parts are application specific race parts that do not resemble production parts.

Each manufacturer designs the engine they intend to race in the 'cup series and submits it to NASCAR for approval. Once approved, all teams running that brand must use the approved block, heads and intake manifold. Getting a part "approved" is far more politics with NASCAR than technical or production related.

Think about it....how could a Toyota pushrod 'cup engine be something that could be used in a production application when Toyota has never made any sort of motor even remotely resembling that...??? PURE race parts. Period.

Not that any of the other manufacturers run anything resembling production. The small block Chevy engine used in NASCAR is a derivative of the SB2 (small block 2) racing engine that was submitted and approved about 10 years ago. It's ancient ancestor was the chevy small block...but the SB2 heads have equally spaced exhaust ports..not the siamesed exhaust ports of the conventional small block chevy. And the SB2 used today in NASCAR isn't even remotely recognizable as the Gen3 small block (LS2/LS6/LS7/etc.) in production today. The SB2 doesn't even have the cam on the same centerline as the old small block did. Same with the Ford and DC motors. The only quibble here is that the Chevy/Ford/DC motors did originally begin with production engines ages ago and still maintain some faint resemblence in terms of deck height, bore spacings, etc... Toyota, with no history to hamper them, just designed the optimum racing engine and submitted it....and NASCAR, in their haste to get Toyota onboard, approved it. Didn't it show when they immediately ran at the front of the pack in the very first truck race they entered and would have won had they not realized that that would have been a SERIOUS faux pas and sandbagged at the end so as to not totally tip their hand as to how much of an advantage they had right out of the box.

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up. The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine. In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!! Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!! With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

 

[jestal]

Turning left all day long is not racing.

Obviously you have never done it!!!

Tell Steve Kinser that turning left is not racing...LOL.

Ever flat track race a motorcycle? Ice racing on an oval on a frozen lake is about the MOST fun thing you can do on a motorcycle. Even "just" turning left all the time.

 

[Windjammer]

Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!! With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Maybe they can get Richard Petty to come out of retirement for 1 race, stick him in the pace car and let him kick everyone's ***. Now THAT would be fun to watch!

 

[Fallen Jim Rides again]

Jim,
No ire, only an eyebrow. I just find it a bit ironic that you brought that up in a Japanese bike forum. (Bye-the-bye, do you rememebr Jimmy Spencer's comment when Toyota entered NASTRUK?).

As for "NASCAR National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing" well, they are cars, and, sometimes it is racing, but they haven't been stock in decades. And, IIRC, Germany isn't part of the United States, either.

I'm on call Saturday so I'll be playin' it by ear. Pray for rain!

Wellll, I can't remember Mr. Spencers comment as I never heard or read it. Perhaps someone would be kind enought to enlighten me.

I am only a sometimes fan of NASCAR at best, though I did make the first truck race at TMS. Free tickets and I did get to watch the ND cars practice some.

My ambevilance is largely due to exactly what you point out and Jestal illuminates so well. They bear little resemblance to stock cars, I have misgivings about whether they are racing sometimes (Can Jeff Gordan be THAT much better than the entire rest of the field?), and the rules seem to make more decisions at the line than the cars or drivers do. Oh, and frankly - Truck Racing? - :blink:

Germany is certainly not in the U.S. but Dodge was an American company long before Daimler got controlling interest. Heck I'm not even sure that was a bad thing and I am a die hard MoPar fan.

Toyota's tactics are the biggest issue here, both in racing and in business and I am NOT a fan of theirs. I will not watch a NASCAR race with a Toyota in it for exactly the reasons stated here and by Jestal previously.

Besides, now that I am back in the saddle, I have better things to do on the weekends.

Praying hard for rain, and I hope you can find time to join us in Grapevine Saturday. I think you and I may have one or two acquaintances in common.

 

[twowheelnut]

Turning left all day long is not racing.

Seen F1 lately? The only passing being done is in the pits or when someone goes off track.

 

[snowmonkey]

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up.  The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine.  In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!!  Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!!  With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Now that is sweet.

Jestal, it's good to have you back in the Blue Room. What's the story on your absence. And did you really delete your past posts?

 

[panthercity]

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up. The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine. In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!! Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!! With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Figures I've seen for plate motors is approx. 450 RWHP. I know the Z06 claims 505 at the crank, but what's the RWHP on the Z06?

Either way, isn't it amazing what they can do with that "archaic two-valve, push-rod" lump...

 

[FJRottie]

Easy fellas.

My, "Turning left all day long is not racing.", was only for humor.

 

[radman]

One of my favorite (and probably the best) NASCAR stories involves Bobby Allison and the first "Cheater" car (everyone else drove full size cars), his #2 $8000 drive it to the track 64 Chevelle. Truly a legend.

 

[donaldb]

Bobby Allison!!! hell yea :clap: :clap: one of the original Alabama Gang! Donnie and Davie :rip: Got Bobby's autograph when I was a kid, he signed my Talladega 500 program before the race back in 1973, the only program I kept from back then--all, and I mean all--the old greats photos are in that program, I am glad I kept it all these years. Way to go Rad!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jestal]

Bobby Allison!!! hell yea :clap: :clap: one of the original Alabama Gang! Donnie and Davie :rip: Got Bobby's autograph when I was a kid, he signed my Talladega 500 program before the race back in 1973, the only program I kept from back then--all, and I mean all--the old greats photos are in that program, I am glad I kept it all these years. Way to go Rad!!!!!!!!!!

Did you happen to watch the Barrett-Jackson auction on Speed from Phenix last weekend? Someone found one of the original Bobby Allison Plymouths in a barn and restored it and auctioned it at Barrett-Jackson. Bobby Allison was there and drove the car onto the block.

 

[jestal]

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up.   The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine.   In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!!   Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!!   With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Now that is sweet.

Jestal, it's good to have you back in the Blue Room. What's the story on your absence. And did you really delete your past posts?

What can I say. I didn't appreciate some of the comments PM'd to me about my "long winded" "know-it-all" posts and decided to leave. I got over it.

 

[twowheelnut]

Bobby Allison!!! hell yea  :clap:  :clap: one of the original Alabama Gang! Donnie and Davie :rip: Got Bobby's autograph when I was a kid, he signed my Talladega 500 program before the race back in 1973, the only program I kept from back then--all, and I mean all--the old greats photos are in that program, I am glad I kept it all these years. Way to go Rad!!!!!!!!!!

Did you happen to watch the Barrett-Jackson auction on Speed from Phenix last weekend? Someone found one of the original Bobby Allison Plymouths in a barn and restored it and auctioned it at Barrett-Jackson. Bobby Allison was there and drove the car onto the block.

That car went for way under what it should have gone for. Nonetheless, it was good to see Bobbie... Still has that racer's gleam in his eye.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up.  The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine.  In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!!  Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!!  With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Now that is sweet.

Jestal, it's good to have you back in the Blue Room. What's the story on your absence. And did you really delete your past posts?

What can I say. I didn't appreciate some of the comments PM'd to me about my "long winded" "know-it-all" posts and decided to leave. I got over it.

I wonder why I have never got any of those. I mean, I know it all and can tend to be verbose. Hey, what's Jestal got that I don't?

I'd rather watch a grand prix race than a nascar race. I'd rather watch a nascar race than mens tennis.

 

[madmike2]

I like the American Le Mans series. Different types of cars on the same track at the same time. Really causes me to appreciate how fast the "big cars" when they are passing Porsches inside of corners, blowing past on straights, etc., rather than seeing the "same" cars. To me, it gives a different perspective.

 

[radman]

Interesting note for the Daytona 500 coming up.  The ZO6 Corvette is the Pace Car with the new 505 HP LS7 engine.  In pure stock trim it has practically the same top speed as the NASCAR race cars and makes at least, if not more, HP than any car in the field!!  Got to be a first for the Pace Car to be the fastest car on the track!!  With the restrictor plate motors the field would be spotting the Corvette about 10 HP !!

Now that is sweet.

Jestal, it's good to have you back in the Blue Room. What's the story on your absence. And did you really delete your past posts?

What can I say. I didn't appreciate some of the comments PM'd to me about my "long winded" "know-it-all" posts and decided to leave. I got over it.

In case any speculation might arise, I was not the source of any of those pm's. I for one am also glad to see he didn't leave for good.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I like the American Le Mans series. Different types of cars on the same track at the same time. Really causes me to appreciate how fast the "big cars" when they are passing Porsches inside of corners, blowing past on straights, etc., rather than seeing the "same" cars. To me, it gives a different perspective.

I agree Mike, I love seeing three classes of cars on the same racetrack at the same time.