OH YOU PEOPLE!!!

[turbodave_98]

You gotta remember where toe is coming from... he sees all kinds of bad **** in his chosen profession and I think that this filters into his everyday life. Good for him, I respect that. His comments cannot hurt, only help us be more aware.
That said, **** happens. First hand, my fault... brain fart. Never saw it coming, no way to prevent. A momentary lapse of concentration and screech, splat.

That is all.

Have a nice day!

:bye:

Just noticed the above was TWN POST # 8000. When are you gona quit?? Seems like by now your brain should be totally drained and the typing finders petrified. See you in PCU.

 

[fjrcouple]

ROCK ON!! You control your life. You can't fix yesterday only tomorrow!! :dirol:

 

[keithaba]

Now go take a long look into the nearest mirror, and ask yourself- Am I an ace, or do I just run on luck? If you've already crashed on multiple occasions, it's probably the latter.

O.k. I see your point, but....

Guess those moto GP guys need to shape up. Those nubs are crashing all the time!

It's all just human beahvior, listen to Mr. Skinner.

"A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying."

 

[WVFJR]

Great topic

I agree with every one's inputs give or take. It's all food for thought. I feel that I ride as an invisible object. I also ride like every cage is out there to kill me. Don't get me wrong I love to ride and will do so until when ever. Riding is a great stress relive to me. I use to rock climb and get the same feeling that meant I could control things up to a point then other factors could cause problems. The climbing thing may be weak but that is my thoughts. I also ride when it feels right, sometimes I get on the bike and it just feels like this is not the day to be doing this. I've left the house to ride then turned around for home because it was just not right.

 

[drew231506]

Guess those moto GP guys need to shape up. Those nubs are crashing all the time!
"A failure is not always a mistake, it may simply be the best one can do under the circumstances. The real mistake is to stop trying."

+1!

You can hop on your bike and think worse case scenario all day, drive 10mph under the limit, take each corner at a slow pace but somewhere along the way you're gonna be glad you were LUCKY!

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I think an awful lot of riders get taken out because they aren't paying attention to what's around them too often and accidents that could be avoided are not. The more we don't pay attention, the more likely we are to get hit by someone doing something wrong that we could have avoided if we didn't have our head in the clouds.

I also think there are accidents that occur where the rider was doing all the right things with all the right focus and got hit anyway.

I think there are a lot more of the first types of accidents than the second type.

IMO - not based on any objective data

 

[BrunDog]

Accidents are called accidents for a reason.

I am 100% onboard with Slap and I think that you are not being realistic here, Toe. You cannot fully control space and time around you, but there certainly is a probability scale.

The probability of being killed or injured riding a motorcycle infers that you have to be riding. No sitting in the house. Now, if you choose to ride in an empty parking lot in circles at 5 mph, then your liklihood is really small, but there is still a possibility of a madman deciding today is your day and he is going to run you over. On the other end of the probability spectrum is riding Saturday night as the bars are closing, in traffic, on a freeway with guard rails on both sides, in the rain, and a truck that is 5+ seconds following distance in front of you bounces a concrete pylon off the back. You are in trouble, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about the car that is passing you at that moment that swerves into your lane and takes you out.

Ultimately it is just the risk that we are willing to take that decides our fate. It is a higher risk is because of more potential for **** to go wrong. The only thing you can really control is how much risk you are willing to expose yourself to. For most of us that is somewhere in the middle of this scale.

Unfortunately, our hobby is a dangerous one, and you have to be realistic that there is no way to eliminate the risk completely. I understand you are frustrated - I am too, but don't become delusional to cope with this.

-BD

 

[C&C]

Be cognizant of your surroundings, make the best choices that you can; hope to hell they're good enough. (but for crying out loud, don't live in fear, but a healthy respect would be wise)

And a big plus one to the Radman's post.

 

[WVFJR]

I'm also a true believer when you ticket is punched it is just that. Be it on a bike in a car or walking IMHO. We can work to avoid the other stupid things (cages) that want to hurt us. When it is time thats what it is.

 

[Bounce]

i skimmed through the thread too quickly to follow anything beyond the first change of font. therefore i submit a

[SIZE=18pt]gunny![/SIZE]

to whatever parts with which i would usually agree.

 

[wpbfjr]

Now go take a long look into the nearest mirror, and ask yourself- Am I an ace, or do I just run on luck? If you've already crashed on multiple occasions, it's probably the latter.

i ain't no ricky racer, but i've been down, and learned lessons from cracking up on a bike... i think it's luck to NOT of crashed!!!

(Deity of choice) grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change-Cagers flying out of driveways and running reds at intersections etc.

the courage to change the things I can-

Habits, attitude, skillz, gear, knowing it's time to store the boots permanently.

and the wisdom to know the difference.

Sometimes **** just happens, bad **** to good people, good **** to toadies and diktators and the like.

GUNNY!

GUNNY+1

Accidents are called accidents for a reason.

i call bull $hit on this one:

all events start with some form of negligent act by one of the parties involved... could be as simple as not checking air pressure in tires, or failure to maintain vehicle, or an argument before leaving home, or just being a boneheaded text messenger queen...



there are no accidents, only preventable's...

:****:

 

[JimLor]

I have to agree with wpbfjr's #3. If you work backwards from an "accident," you can usually identify one, and most likely more than one point where if A or B had done something they "should" have or the "right" thing vice what they did, the accident wouldn't have happened. Not saying that very clearly - if you work backwards to the various decision points that got the protagonists to the accident, you can usually clearly identify poor or wrong decisions that led to the accident.

For example, when Billy little pecker blows thru a red light in his $60k pickemuptruck because he was watching "One Life to Live" on his cool video screen, that, in my humble opinion, isn't an "accident." That's a willfull act that should end up with Billy LP in jail for a very long time. But, because we so love the "freedom" provided by our motor vehicles, we call gross acts "accidents" that have little to no consequences to the perps - the victims yes, but the perps, heck no, insurance will pay for it. Sorry about that, got caught up in the emotion!

 

[Scythian]

if you work backwards to the various decision points that got the protagonists to the accident, you can usually clearly identify poor or wrong decisions that led to the accident.

But those decisions can only be judged as 'poor' or 'wrong' in hindsight of the accident. If there were no accident, the decisions would be neutral....

That's why it is sometimes so difficult to determine a 'root cause' to a mishap--it's as much art as science.

It puts me in mind of one of the fellows, formerly on this forum, killed last year. Was it LAWinter? (RIP)

Another rider was riding with him when he watched the rider completely fail to negotiate a turn--he just went straight off into the desert (I don't recall that speed was a factor). He died at the scene. It was a bit of a mystery until the accident investigators found the remains of a bat crushed in the accident inside the riders partially unzipped riding suit!

The bat apparently got scooped up into the one-piece riding suit and was fighting like hell at the perfect moment to distract the rider from negotiating the turn.

Root cause?

Rider inattention?--yeah right, with a who-knows-if-it's rabid bat clawing you inside your riding suit.... Improperly warn gear?--it was hot, suit was unzipped to prevent heat stress....

We don't like to admit it, and it is hard to face, but:

1) Sometimes you can do everything right and still get killed....

2) There are more ways of getting killed on a bike than you can even think of....

Just don't make yourself an easy target for a bad day: you gotta be cagey.

Whenever there is an accident reported here, and God Bless the guys who report them, we like to ask why it happened and then war-game it to convince ourselves that 'it wouldn't happen to us'!

Sometimes it's the only way we can keep riding....

The bat? I'm not that guy! I would have kicked its ***! I would have zipped my suit! I would have not ridden when bats were out! I would have read a bat forecast!

I'm better/smarter/faster/more trained than that guy: I wouldn't have died....

 

[FJR Gary]

I'm sure most of you remember Larry Grodsky, who made his living teaching people how to be safer riders, getting taken out by a deer last year. As someone said, when your time is up.....

 

[JimLor]

No, the decison would still be wrong, but w/o consequence. Which in my opinion, reinforces to folks that they can make bad decisions and get away with them...until that one time...

Was it the woodchuck comment?

 

[wpbfjr]

if you work backwards to the various decision points that got the protagonists to the accident, you can usually clearly identify poor or wrong decisions that led to the accident.

It puts me in mind of one of the fellows, formerly on this forum, killed last year. Was it LAWinter? (RIP)

.... It was a bit of a mystery until the accident investigators found the remains of a bat crushed in the accident inside the riders partially unzipped riding suit!

The bat apparently got scooped up into the one-piece riding suit and was fighting like hell at the perfect moment to distract the rider from negotiating the turn.

Root cause?

Rider inattention?--yeah right, with a who-knows-if-it's rabid bat clawing you inside your riding suit.... Improperly warn gear?--it was hot, suit was unzipped to prevent heat stress.... The bat? I'm not that guy! I would have kicked its ***! I would have zipped my suit! I would have not ridden when bats were out! I would have read a bat forecast!

I'm better/smarter/faster/more trained than that guy: I wouldn't have died....

to me, the root of Scythian's post is why many of us, myself included, jeer the overly safety conscious riders of the world (don't know why i want to type BMW here :lol: )...

butt, the fact is some error or omission happened that led to the tragic event...

and, most all of us make trade-off decisions every day...

just don't call it an accident...

dana

lawinter RIP

 

[Scythian]

No, the decison would still be wrong, but w/o consequence. Which in my opinion, reinforces to folks that they can make bad decisions and get away with them...until that one time...

In order for the decision to be 'wrong', there has to be an agreed upon standard of 'right' according to The Law, Training, Social Mores, Conventional Wisdom, Social taboo....

There really is no agreed upon definition of 'right' when it comes to Not Getting Killed on a Motorcycle--there is training, and opinions, and studies to point in the direction of 'right', but in the absence of an accident, there is really nothing to definitively judge the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of an action preceding No Accident....

However, you can always say: "In my experience, you did a dumb thing that could get yourself, or others hurt. According to the best training and advice, you just got away with something...."

 

[Scythian]

to me, the root of Scythian's post is why many of us, myself included, jeer the overly safety conscious riders of the world

I don't. There is no point "tempting the Gods". If being 'overly safety conscious is what works for them, cool. But it's a matter of perception--what is overly safety conscious to one may be foolhardy to another.

Don't make it easy for a bad day to get you: be cagey.

butt, the fact is some error or omission happened that led to the tragic event....

That error or omission is only recognizable in hindsight. It anyone had recognized it at the time, there wouldn't have been an event would there?

There is no rule of motorcycle riding that I will not follow, or break, to save my skin....

 

[Scab]

We don't like to admit it, and it is hard to face, but:
1) Sometimes you can do everything right and still get killed....

2) There are more ways of getting killed on a bike than you can even think of....

Whenever there is an accident reported here, and God Bless the guys who report them, we like to ask why it happened and then war-game it to convince ourselves that 'it wouldn't happen to us'!

Sometimes it's the only way we can keep riding....

I'm better/smarter/faster/more trained than that guy:

Now, there's a BIG dose of truth. Maybe a bigger dose than some will want to swallow. But IMO, the truth nonetheless. I've been on both sides of that equation.

You know, I always think about this stuff before I ride. It's just that sometimes I lie to myself. Sometimes, I look the consequences straight in the eye and chose to roll the dice anyway. Sometimes, I don't want to hear that so I tell myself that it won't be me; can't happen to me; I'll be prepared for that...

 

[fretbender]

That error or omission is only recognizable in hindsight. It anyone had recognized it at the time, there wouldn't have been an event would there?

The tricky thing about hindsight is that you can't prove it wrong. You look back at things and say, "If I had only done THIS instead of what I did, then I'd be ok now." But I think, a lot of times, you don't really know that. If you could go back and do 'THIS' then you might find it resulted in an even worse situation somehow. Maybe having a relatively low level accident is the one thing that keeps you from getting killed later. Who knows? You can wig yourself out if you think about it too much. For me, it's about determining my risk level, knowing there's some bad stuff out there that I can't control, accepting that and then focusing on the task at hand.

I was just watching a safety video about accidents on the job that was made back in the mid 70's. . .it was saying that 42% of on the job accidents were due to inattention and 40% due to lack of training. I really don't know how valid those numbers are and how well they correlate to riding, but it's not too hard to believe.

In any case it's good to see that Toe still cares about us.