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Sully1300

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The ban is trying to make a 20 year come back.

Is anybody more up on this subject than me?

Does this demonstrate a legitimate threat and are our fellow motorcycle lawyer friends going to battle for our freedom and point out all the flaws in their research? Check out the link to the article:

AMA Website

This is not my website but a lionk to the article, sorry, I just didn't know how to change the link title.

 
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The ban is trying to make a 20 year come back.
Is anybody more up on this subject than me?

Does this demonstrate a legitimate threat and are our fellow motorcycle lawyer friends going to battle for our freedom and point out all the flaws in their research? Check out the link to the article:

Visit My Website

This is not my website but a lionk to the article, sorry, I just didn't know how to change the link title.
Linky didn't work for me :unsure:

 
This thread may not last too long.

The potential 'banned bikes' are some of the best balanced, best handling, best braking bikes available. These classes of motorcycles probably have the largest "reserve performance capacity" too, said another way, they use a smaller percentage of performance envelope than other classes of bikes.

[analogy]

Hmmm, lets see, Yugo Zengcheng SL125-8 in the left lane going 65 mph, Corvette FJR1300 in the left lane at 65 mph -- which has the best chance of emergency accident avoidance? On secondary roads the Yugo Zengcheng SL125-8 may use >60% of performance envelope when going around a sharp bend in the road whereas the Corvette FJR1300 would only use 25% of performance envelope. Yup, clear to me, ban the killer hyper car FJR Super Sport for sure.

[/analogy]

Too bad the total number of miles for a particular motorcycle class, number of miles ridden per year, types of roads, hours of the day when ridden, operator age, operator experience, operator training, operator’s driving record, etc, aren’t factored into some of these alarmist reports.

Turkey of a topic on a Turkey Day ;) :lol:

[Edited to add]

The link worked for me, it's another call to ban sport oriented bikes because everyone that rides one gets killed. Excerpted from the opening salvo:

You probably saw the headlines in newspapers across the country several weeks ago:

“High-Performance Motorcycles Contributing to High Death Toll.”

“Supersport motorcycles lead the pack in death rates and claims costs.”

“The New Motorcycles: Bigger, Faster, Deadlier.”

And underneath those headlines, you—like many other Americans—read dire warnings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that sportbikes are much more dangerous than other types of motorcycles on the road.

[Edited yet again]

To keep this discussion motorcycle related.

 
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They have a point. 100% of the claims I've ever put into my insurance company in my whole life were due to an FJR.*

* Of course that was a check for a total loss on an '05 that I put through a deer. I did a much less admirable job of riding than, say, dcarver, so the bike got dog-chewed as it and I parted ways, but sufficient damage was done by the initial impact, I think, for the bike to be a goner.

 
This thread has been on the forum before, but got closed because somebody kept insisting it was the government proposing the banning....which it wasn't....so I'm glad it's brought up in this form focusing on the IIHS as an industry funded research and lobbying group.

Do yourselves all a favor and actually read the original report yourself. The AMA makes some good points about the study flaws, but they don't seem to want to bother linking the report they reference.....which I think is shabby.

While I agree the IIHS has an agenda...be clear that our bike is classified as a "sport" and not a "super-sport" bike. Look through their spiffy little color charts and you'll see "super-sport" bikes are like two or three times the various rates (money shot is page 6 and 7) of our class.

I think we'll see "super sports" be the canaries in the coal mine in this 20 year+ long rhetorical exchange.

...and please keep the politics DIRECTLY related to FJRs and/or motorcycles....please. :rolleyes:

 
Interesting that they list the ST1300 police model. *snerk* And the Wee-Strom?! :blink: *double snerk* That thing tops out a buck ten and takes it's sweet time getting there. Harley is not listed at all, even though all Harley models are quicker and faster than the Strom. It's all ******** and simply an attempt to raise rates on motorcycles as a whole. Keep in mind that the IIHS is nothing more than a lobby entity for the insurance industry. It is not a governmental agency. Can you imagine the politicians accepting a mass exodus of M/C business from their home states? NFW.

Meh, I wouldn't fret too much about it. If all of those models listed were banned, all those companies would just fold-up and go home - they'd have to, cuz they'd have nothing to sell (Buell would likely move offshore). That would leave a big frigging economic hole in transportation and leisure sector and that will just not happen.

Now, I'm going to ride over the river and through the wood to Granny's house for some turkey and pie...

 
Years ago, when I spent more time at a local, friendy (and good) Kawasaki dealer; one day he said to me in an off-hand sort'a way: "Well, that makes it 100% -- every Ninja I sold this season has been totalled."

That's the kind of stats that really add fuel to IIHS's fire...... :(

 
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Years ago, when I spent more time at a local, friendy (and good) Kawasaki dealer; one day he said to me in an off-hand sort'a way: "Well, that makes it 100% -- every Ninja I sold this season has been totalled."That's the kind of stats that really add fuel to IIHS's fire...... :(
"...every Ninja I sold this season has been totalled..."

That looks like support for the tiered licensing program, doesn't it? Who bought those Ninjas that the dealer sold? Were they experienced riders with proper training and gear? Or were they young testosterone factories (and most of us were there, one time) with more bravado than judgement? Should a young rider be allowed to purchase a full-on sportbike? Or is it time to require real driver and rider training in this country and once and for all explode the myth of driving or riding as a right and not a privilege?

I hate government interference as much as anyone, but the abysmal level of driver skill AS A WHOLE in this country has reached a point where we need to rethink who is allowed to operate vehicles on public roads. I'm sorry, but sixteen-year-olds are not emotionally mature enough for that responsiblilty. Neither are brain-dead nitwits who multi-task doing all kinds of unsafe behavior while driving. And my Grandmother, may she rest in peace, drove until she was 91. At least 4 or 5 years beyond her ability to safely drive on public roads.

We all know where the 16-years age limit for driving came from. And those days are long past. It was a result of expansion of the country, when kids actually worked to support the larger family. Cell phones, texting, and Ipods were not even dreamed of back then. The traffic density was orders of magnitude smaller then.

Nothing will be done, of course, but I'd like to see real, meaningful driver training (read: expensive) so that driving is a privilege again, not a right. Go to Germany, or many other EU countries. Most of them require substantial and comprehensive driver training. Sure it costs money, like $2,000 or $3,000. And you have no guarantee of receiving an operator's license. You still have to pass a test. A real test, with real driving and everything, not the one-page farce most states use here.

No tolerance for DUI. First one, and lose your driving privileges for a year. Second one, three years. Third strike, you're out. And that's just for DUI. For injuring someone, get ready for real jail time.

So, rather than let a bunch of accountants with actuarial tables decide for us what motorcyles should be, we should instead go back to using common sense about who is allowed to operate what on public roads.

We almost across the board give the same advice to new riders: start with something small, light, not too much power. Ride it for a while, then, if you still like this whole two-wheeler thing, sell it and move up. Instead, we see dealers selling 130 rear-wheel HP (or more) machines to some 18-year old kid buying his first bike, whose ******* insurance payment is higher than the ******* bike payment (no offense, dealers) and then wonder why we, as experienced older riders pay out the ass to insure the FJR. I know, some of you are thinking Darwinism at work, but dammint, I don't need the bad publicity when some dipshit kid makes the front page by splattering his brains all over the highway. And none of us need the scrutiny that groups like the IIHS bring.

Real training and tiered licensing. That's the answer. Ain't gonna happen, but it needs to. OK, rant off. But the next time some guy in the sedan sliiiiides into your lane because he's trying to dial the cell phone, or some chatting soccer mom in a 2-ton SUV places her rear bumper into the same space your front wheel is occupying, don't get mad at them. They are idiots that WE allow on the roads. Same for the carload of teenagers, and same for the little blue-hairs barely peeking over the steering wheel. We have plenty of laws. We just need to hold accountable the people breaking them.

 
*sigh*

It seems some people can't stick to motorcycles.

...one last chance I guess before thread shutdown....

 
In a nutshell, it is the operator of the device, not the device. (so obviously a motorcycle in our example here)

 
Well, look at the number of FJRs reported wrecked on the forum lately. How many of them have been caused by rider error or excess speed? (Or my own stupidity and carelessness on the KLR?) With the IIHS it's all about numbers and percentages. They are going to use every trick they can to move the thought process to their favor.

Rhetorical question: How many of us dropped a few ducats into the AMA coffer for the new "Motorcycle Safety Report"? Facts will overcome the IIHS theory, just as the original assault on freedom of choice was defeated.

You could write your insurance carrier and POLITELY challenge the inferences with factual comparisons. Like: "Why is my touring-type motorcycle, a Yamaha FJR included with the sportbikes when it is actually a variation of the BMW 1150 RT used by the police departments?" Or, "Why is the BMW 1150 RT (and my Yamaha FJR) compared with the typical sportbike when the police departments are able to ride it safely and sanely to protect the citizenry?" Using Tim's comparisons, why not ask, "Why are there no Harley Davidson motorcycles included. The Harley Davidson (insert model) are faster and quicker, so by the reasoning of the report, surely more dangerous than "X" motorcyle or "Y" motorcycle."

Be thought provoking and inciteful. It will let the insurance company know you're a motorcuyclist and keep them aware you're watching.

 
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You could write your insurance carrier and POLITELY challenge the inferences with factual comparisons. Like: "Why is my touring-type motorcycle, a Yamaha FJR included with the sportbikes when it is actually a variation of the BMW 1150 RT used by the police departments?" Or, "Why is the BMW 1150 RT (and my Yamaha FJR) compared with the typical sportbike when the police departments are able to ride it safely and sanely to protect the citizenry?" Using Tim's comparisons, why not ask, "Why are there no Harley Davidson motorcycles included. The Harley Davidson (insert model) are faster and quicker, so by the reasoning of the report, surely more dangerous than "X" motorcyle or "Y" motorcycle."
Devil's Advocate:

Why can't I have an M-16 to hunt Rabits?

The local police (SWAT team) have them. They use them safely and sanley to protect the citizenry.

---------------------

How many of us emphasize the SPORT in ST when we describe our bike?

I'm just sayin...

But I agree with the lack of HD in the report. Makes it bias and wondering is its aimed at an overseas market with backdoor interest involved.

 
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I agree MM2.Anyone taking the time to write a letter may invoke some attention to the matter.Any lobby group is out to protect the interest of their peer business.When one goes and comparative shops the insurance rates of many different brands it is an eye opening experience worthy of questioning who is writing these rates and why.This is a twenty plus year old debate that goes back to Hondas first supersport and all the bad TV news reports it got.Lobbyists have succeded in the past in getting restrictions on certain makes but the companies have been able to engineer around those restrictions.IMHO it is all about being able to make some serious jack for the insurance companies.I find it puzzling that insurance rates are all over the map for a Buell XB12ss and cost more than my FJR.Personally I have donated funds to the AMA to keep my right of choice in tact.I have taken time to write my legislators in my state and congress to support certain bills.I saw a statistic years ago that is 1% of the population controls 100% of the laws written.

 
Flawed, flawed interpretation of the data.

The death rate/10,000 registrations for supersport bikes actually decreased from 22.6 to 22.5. The FJR's class decreased as well from 10.7 to 10.6. They tout the overall losses by supersport class and that figures in theft, comprehensive, etc.

The big data that no one was mentioning was the increased death rate in the Touring class from 5.3 to 6.5. That's like a 25% increase in the death rate and affirms to me my notion of why I don't like big heavy bikes. Also they just mildly mention that on a per claim basis, Touring bikes have higher claims.

I've never really understood why people get older and weaker and then buy heavier bikes, other than for comfort I guess.

The FJR is the heaviest bike I'll ever own.

Obviously an article written non-objectively.

Also, why is a Vrod considered a cruiser? That thing is a rocket compared to a Sportster.

 
In a nutshell, it is the operator of the device, not the device. (so obviously a motorcycle in our example here)

Bingo. This we know, and said logic can be applied to many debates where that ^^^ is the case. Was it the insurance institute that sponsored the "research"?

Anyone else's insurance man giving them rates based on their credit rating/driving record, rather than the *kind* of bikes they ride?

 
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