parasitic Datel?

[LDRydr]

So, what's wrong with the blue? I'm assuming sun/glare/maybe it's too bright at night?

The red one is faster, good for at least a 5hp increase. :lol:

 

[Fred W]

So specifically, which Datel is the bees knees? Which one is 'the' one to have?
[insert Link here]

Below link is the *exact* Datel you want.... essential equipment for Iron Butt Riders on bikes like our FJR:

Datel DMS-20PC-1-DCM voltmeter

Do not get the blue version. Believe me. Trust me.

Do not get the 1/100th placement version. The last digit will be constantly changing, and will prove irritating and distracting in short order

The red XX.X version (DMS-20PC-1-DCM) is The One.

Here here! That is the one that is the shizzy!

But don't bother buying the big ugly bezel thingee (for extra), unless you don't think your plastic cutting skillz are quite up to snuff. So long as you can be neat when you cut the hole when you install it, the meter without the bezel looks more sanitary IMO

'05 Feefer install:

'98 Veefer install:

FWIW, I wired both of mine to the 12V ignition switched relays that feeds much of my electronica. It means that there are some losses due to the load on the relay (mostly from other stuff) which means there is some error in the voltage display. Not really a big deal if you use it as a relative voltage indicator. But if I were to do it over again, I'd wire it direct to the battery (through a fuse, but with no switch) and just deal with the miniscule parasitic losses to the battery charge.

I'll probably be looking for a way to fit one on my '73 Beamer without ruining the retro look.

[edit] Oh, and Dale... 10.9V? That ain't so good.

 

[brazos parker]

Wire the Datel positive (+) lead directly to the battery's positive post. You may insert a 1-amp fuse inline if you truly feel the need, but a "pure", unhindered, unencumbered connection using quality twisted-strand wiring would be optimal, ensuring it is insulated and even further encased in shrink-tube to prevent any chaffing issues.
Wire the Datel negative (-) lead to a *high-quality* toggle switch of your choosing, which is then connected directly to the battery's negative terminal. Place nothing else in between.

As I say, feel free to accept or reject the above as you see fit.

Interesting comment, Dale. Abt a year ago, I asked this very question. The responses were to definitely add an in-line fuse. If I didn't, I was playing w/ fire...literally. Since I'm not very good w/ electrical anything, I got an in-line fuse.

 

[Warchild]

[edit] Oh, and Dale... 10.9V? That ain't so good.

Concur. Fortunately, that's not my bike.....

Interesting comment, Dale. Abt a year ago, I asked this very question. The responses were to definitely add an in-line fuse. If I didn't, I was playing w/ fire...literally. Since I'm not very good w/ electrical anything, I got an in-line fuse.

The latter being the case, it's always good to err on the side of safety. Too, back in The Day, I used a small inline fuse when I ran the Datel on my ST1100 many years ago.

I don't nowadays because I am more confident of running a thickly insulated 20-gauge wire from battery post to Datel in such a way as to make chaffing concerns almost non-existent. Which is another reason the ground wire is the one going to the toggle switch... not the positive lead. The negative wire of this circuit is much longer (since it has to be routed to the control box above the starter button, and back down before headed toward the Datel... all this offers more potential opportunities for that wire to chaff. Happily, should this wire chaff through for whatever reason, no short occurs since both wire and frame are on the negative side of the circuit.

 

[Fred W]

Interesting comment, Dale. Abt a year ago, I asked this very question. The responses were to definitely add an in-line fuse. If I didn't, I was playing w/ fire...literally. Since I'm not very good w/ electrical anything, I got an in-line fuse.

Well, being one of those guys that works with the electrons every day, I'd say that you heard (and done) eggs-ackly right.

Now some of us don't always do what's right (eggs-ackly), and will play "fast and loose" with the rules, and can get away with it if we're fairly careful with wire routing , etc.

The rule of thumb is that you want a fuse as close to the + source (battery) correctly sized to protect the smallest gauge wire downstream of the fuse. Remember, fuses protect wiring from short circuits that will cause fires, they do not protect the terminal equipment. The potential short circuit that you are protecting that wiring from is quite often in the terminal equipment. Now in this case, the sealed Datel meter is pretty bulletproof, so I wouldn't expect many problems there, which means you are only protecting the wiring from itself (chafed insulation). In the case of chafed insulation shorting the wire to ground, you would immediately get enough current to pop just about any fuse placed upstream before there is heating damage to the wiring.

I'm kind of glad this thread came up (again). It seems to come up at least once a year or so. I think that this winter I will run an experiment and rewire my Datel meters directly to the batteries rather than off the switched relays I have them on now. I'll first collect some current drain info in the present configurations, also charge the batteries up and record battery voltage drop over a couple of weeks (using a multimeter, not the Datel), then I'll rewire them right off the battery (yeah, I'll fuse them) so they are always on and then repeat the measurements.

Personally, I'd much rather have a panel meter always on, telling me the battery voltage at a glance at all times. Assuming the battery drain is insignificant (as I suspect).

 

[ionbeam]

...I think that this winter I will run an experiment and rewire my Datel meters directly to the batteries...I'll first collect some current drain info in the present configurations, also charge the batteries up and record battery voltage drop over a couple of weeks (using a multimeter, not the Datel), then I'll rewire them right off the battery...so they are always on and then repeat the measurements.
Personally, I'd much rather have a panel meter always on, telling me the battery voltage at a glance at all times. Assuming the battery drain is insignificant (as I suspect).

The Datel's current draw will be in addition to the normal quiescent current of the ECU. Ambient temps will affect how well the battery will take the trickle discharge; you may want to note temperature too.

I've designed Datel meters into Ion Implanters since 1980 and designed process controllers to compete with Datel at MKS Instruments. The Datel meters perform as advertised; expect the meters to meet their data sheet specs.

 

[Fred W]

...I think that this winter I will run an experiment and rewire my Datel meters directly to the batteries...I'll first collect some current drain info in the present configurations, also charge the batteries up and record battery voltage drop over a couple of weeks (using a multimeter, not the Datel), then I'll rewire them right off the battery...so they are always on and then repeat the measurements.
Personally, I'd much rather have a panel meter always on, telling me the battery voltage at a glance at all times. Assuming the battery drain is insignificant (as I suspect).

The Datel's current draw will be in addition to the normal quiescent current of the ECU. Ambient temps will affect how well the battery will take the trickle discharge; you may want to note temperature too.

I've designed Datel meters into Ion Implanters since 1980 and designed process controllers to compete with Datel at MKS Instruments. The Datel meters perform as advertised; expect the meters to meet their data sheet specs.

Roger that.

And so, are you in agreement that there should be no problem at all in leaving it on. A few ma drain should be insignificant for anyone that rides at least, say... once a month, and already in the habit of using battery tenders for layups any longer.

 

[ionbeam]

From post #2:

Depending on accuracy of the 2 wire Datel chosen, the current draw will be a scant 7mA to 13mA (.007 to .013 amps). At 7mA it will take a bit less than a week to consume 1 amp of current. At 13mA it will take ~1/2 a week to consume 1 amp.

=============

If you add in the current draw of the ECU and drop ambient below 50 degrees I would make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) that after a couple of weeks the FJR would crank very slow. The FJR battery is a 12 amp/hour unit, sucking out a couple of amps in cold weather is significant. The owners manual says to remove the battery when the motorcycle is to be stored, but doesn't define how long 'stored' is.

There is nothing like empirical testing, let us know what the FACTS are! You have the whole winter ahead ---> GO.

 

[spalkin]

Do not do this "constant" connection to the battery. Trust me.
Wire the Datel positive (+) lead directly to the battery's positive post. You may insert a 1-amp fuse inline if you truly feel the need, but a "pure", unhindered, unencumbered connection using quality twisted-strand wiring would be optimal, ensuring it is insulated and even further encased in shrink-tube to prevent any chaffing issues.

Wire the Datel negative (-) lead to a *high-quality* toggle switch of your choosing, which is then connected directly to the battery's negative terminal. Place nothing else in between.

That's exactly what I did (and no fuse either - just quality wire).

 

[lnewlf]

I found an unobtrusive mounting point for Mr. Datel that I havn't seen mentioned- I simply stuck it to the steering head with heavy duty mounting tape[same kind used to mount wheel weights], directly above the fork stop boss-where it easily clears the fork tube at full lock-wired it directly to the battery with a fuse and passed the wires thru the chase in the steering head was that a run on sentence ?

 

[mdisher]

I found an unobtrusive mounting point for Mr. Datel that I havn't seen mentioned- I simply stuck it to the steering head with heavy duty mounting tape[same kind used to mount wheel weights], directly above the fork stop boss-where it easily clears the fork tube at full lock-wired it directly to the battery with a fuse and passed the wires thru the chase in the steering head was that a run on sentence ?

Unless you have pics you didn't really do this.

 

[mdisher]

Do not do this "constant" connection to the battery. Trust me.
Wire the Datel positive (+) lead directly to the battery's positive post. You may insert a 1-amp fuse inline if you truly feel the need, but a "pure", unhindered, unencumbered connection using quality twisted-strand wiring would be optimal, ensuring it is insulated and even further encased in shrink-tube to prevent any chaffing issues.

Wire the Datel negative (-) lead to a *high-quality* toggle switch of your choosing, which is then connected directly to the battery's negative terminal. Place nothing else in between.

That's exactly what I did (and no fuse either - just quality wire).

I found a red one with spalkin's lead here: https://tinyurl.com/55wg5o

 

[lnewlf]

I found an unobtrusive mounting point for Mr. Datel that I havn't seen mentioned- I simply stuck it to the steering head with heavy duty mounting tape[same kind used to mount wheel weights], directly above the fork stop boss-where it easily clears the fork tube at full lock-wired it directly to the battery with a fuse and passed the wires thru the chase in the steering head was that a run on sentence ?

Unless you have pics you didn't really do this.

I suck at pictures-don't even have a digital yet.. anyhow

Look at FredW Dec.3 post-first pic..I think credit for the pic goes to Warchild .You can see the steering stop there[with a bolt hole in it]. On Gen 11 a bracket is bolted there. Datel can be stuck on directly above the stop with adequate clearance.

 

[Fred W]

OK, so then the experiment is probably worth doing. Time to design the experiment.

Hypothesis: Having a Datel Meter hooked up directly to the battery (always on) will have negligible effect under the following conditions:

A) Battery must be in good condition.

B ) Must ride the bike at least once every 14 days

C) In lieu of B, and for storage in excess of 14 days, must use "Battery Tender" or other battery charger to maintain voltage.

Experiment:

1 - Fully charge the new battery in my FJR using my Battery Tender. It was recently replaced this past summer (WestCo).

2 - At the same time, fully charge the old battery which I removed from my FJR this summer (marginal, but still holds a change) using same charger.

3 - Record ambient temperature and fully charged voltage with Fluke digital Voltmeter (directly on battery terminals).

4 - Start bike with fully charged battery and record the peak low voltage during cranking.

5 - Recharge battery fully and repeat voltage and temp readings, then repeat every day for 14 days on each battery.

On Day 15

6 - Attempt to start bike w/ the 14 day drained battery. Record temperature and peak low voltage during cranking

7 - Recharge both batteries fully.

8 - Measure the ambient drain current with the fully charged battery.

9 - Rewire the Datel directly to the battery.

10 - Remeasure the ambient current drain (still fully charged battery)

11 - Repeat step 5 daily measurements.

12 - Repeat step 6 (day 30)

13 - Depending on results, (only if successful so far), swap batteries and repeat entire 30 day experiment (steps 1-12) with a 4+ year old battery.

I have a little USB data logger that I can use for capturing the temp data automagically. I'll have to manually take the daily voltage measurements with my digital multimeter, as I don't have anything to do that laying around. I'll use a digital storage scope to capture the peak low voltage on cranking.

Comments? Flaws in logic? Tweaks?

 

[Luke]

wow...

Now I know what FJR pilots do during the off-season!

 

[Fred W]

I found a red one with spalkin's lead here: https://tinyurl.com/55wg5o

I don't see anything indicating that meter is weatherproof.

It's also more than I paid for my (completely encapsulated and waterproof) Datels. They're still only $39.50

 

[LancasterFJR]

I noticed that all the Datel installs shown here are on Gen I. Is there enough room in Gen II under the right panel that covers the battery? If not, any suggestions? Sam

 

[Warchild]

OK, so then the experiment is probably worth doing. Time to design the experiment.
<<< Massive Hypothesis Snippage... >>>

Comments?

My only comment is that you oughts consider moving to So Cal, Florida... wherever there is year-round riding... :lol:

 

[Brodie]

I noticed that all the Datel installs shown here are on Gen I. Is there enough room in Gen II under the right panel that covers the battery? If not, any suggestions? Sam

Yes

It sits flush without a bezel, makes cleaning it easier, it has no border to collect water or dirt.

I can't take credit for this location, I think I saw it on Warchild's FJRTech page.

Placement is somewhat critical, not much room between the battery and coils and stuff.

At night time the chin bar of your helmet blocks the glare, you don't see it unless you look down below your right hand.

Hope it helps.

Brodie

 

[LancasterFJR]

Thanx Brodie.