Perplexing electrical problem

[Greb]

On a few random occasions within the last 3000 miles my 47K '08 has exhibited some confidence rattling electrical issues.

On two occasions the bike was warmed up and otherwise running fine. When going to start bike again no starter, dash lights flash, gauges sweep. Cycle ignition and starts fine. I was concerned after these two instances but otherwise still confident until last night. I had been riding all day about 450 miles in when I stopped to take care of business at a rest stop. Hit the road accelerated to 65 MPH cruising normal for about two minutes when the bike starts surging headlights out leaving me in complete blackness. Luckily nobody was behind me and I safely coasted to the side of the road. While I braked to a stop I watched the gauges sweep over and over, oil light and ABS light flashed. I could feel the bike get ignition and lose it over and over surging. Basically looked and felt like the ignition switch was beyed keyed on and off over and over. Cycled key off and back on and started normally like it never happened. Rode home about 50 more miles without incident.

I tore into the bike today and all 8 spiders look perfect. Brodie harness has been installed for 25K miles. Ignition recall done 17k miles ago but before the recall I never had an ignition failure. I was running a heated jacket off a FZ1 fuzeblock and OEM heated grips when it shutdown. Battery is original with with 12.7 volts off my multimeter. Both terminals are tight cause that was the first thing I suspected was a loose battery terminal.

Is there anything else I should check while I have the tank and Tupperware off?

 

[HotRodZilla]

Your battery is old. You should start by changing that bad boy.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Yes, your battery connection.

Read these two links.

My Surging.

The real reason for surging.

 

[Greb]

A new battery would be a good idea, but has anyone had an old battery exhibit similar symptoms? Thanks Bluesman, my terminals were tight, but I'll make sure the rubber boot isn't pinched and report back

 

[JamesK]

I would still blame the spiders, when mine fist failed (exhibited your kind of symptoms) the offending spider hardly looked bad enough to notice.

 

[Pterodactyl]

What's a spider, please?

 

[JamesK]

What's a spider, please?

These links should give you plenty of reading practice, but the jury is still out whether or not you'll need to worry about these on your Gen III.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=138982

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=125763

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=126635

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=113632&hl=ground&&page=2

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=143241

https://www.google.com/search?q=ground+spider+site%3Afjrforum.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGHP_en

 

[Queensland Ken]

Does sound like a crook battery.

Did up an electrical diagram a while back to try an understand the cascading arrangement of the spiders.

Fixed a few of them now.

I'm going to make a proper diagram one day, but my program didn't work with Win7.

Hope this helps

There are 2 branches joining at S4.

A crook wire / terminal 4 on the S4 will effect the neutrals downstream to the fuel sender and then tail lights. Likewise a crook wire / terminal 5 on S7 will effect spider 8 totally, while a faulty wire / terminal 4 on the same spider will effect both the S8 and S7 spiders.

Now I'm really confused, hope you get the drift.

Credit given to all those who have posted real great information on this forum !!!

 

[Poida-12]

I'm no expert but that sounds like a dodgy ignition switch. By all means, check the battery and the charging rate though.

 

[Donal]

Does sound like a crook battery.
Did up an electrical diagram a while back to try an understand the cascading arrangement of the spiders.

Fixed a few of them now.

I'm going to make a proper diagram one day, but my program didn't work with Win7.

Hope this helps

There are 2 branches joining at S4.

A crook wire / terminal 4 on the S4 will effect the neutrals downstream to the fuel sender and then tail lights. Likewise a crook wire / terminal 5 on S7 will effect spider 8 totally, while a faulty wire / terminal 4 on the same spider will effect both the S8 and S7 spiders.

Now I'm really confused, hope you get the drift.

Credit given to all those who have posted real great information on this forum !!!

Now that is a really useful addition to the info already on the forum................

 

[ionbeam]

If the gauges are sweeping it is because ignition power has been lost for some reason. If the clock and trip odometer reset, it is battery power that has been lost. If those two items do not reset then it is ignition power that has been lost. This should also mean that after a gauge sweep the headlights don't come on until the motorcycle has been restarted. If the headlights stay on it could mean that there is a problem with the red Run/Stop switch though the R/S switch only kills the coils and should leave everything else on.

Even though the ignition switch was replaced I would still be suspicious that it is somehow involved. While the tank is up it would be interesting to know if you can see the yellow sleeve on the wires at the ignition harness connector which indicates you have the new ignition switch that replaces the stock switch.

Queensland' that is an awesome spider chart!

 

[lnewlf]

QK's chart is da shizzle-best yet...

I soldered 12 gauge ground wires to #6 and #4 years ago and that seems to be a solid fix..

 

[Constant Mesh]

Where does the (-) of the rectifier/regulator connect into this network? One hopes it's not at the S1 junction since many high current loads are many junctions away.

 

[Greb]

Thanks all for the excellent info and suggestions. My ignition switch has the yellow sleeve. Checked strain relief on all wiring, no problems there. Like ionbeam stated trip meters didn't zero out so battery power wasn't lost from the cluster. Bike definitely felt like ignition power was cycling. Might have an ignition switch failure, but I guess I can't rule out a spider issue just yet

 

[Greb]

Battery is next on list too

 

[Queensland Ken]

Wouldn't worry about a spider bite yet, Brodie's harness is a fine piece of wiring.

(I used conductive grease in those spider connectors, a bit better than dialectic grease, which is an insulator)

The ECU monitors the bike's voltage, maybe something like the ECU connector has a high resistance pin within the connector ?.

If so you may loose a feed to the gauges, bike runs like crap, ie the control of the injectors or just dies as you ride.

Mind you it does control your headlight relay ?

Your first lot of symptoms do sound like a crook battery. Mine use to play up only when the bike was warm, say after a quick smoke stop.

But my starter relay used to chatter, gauges sweep, the dash would dim, and in my case the trip meters reset.

If you do get a new battery, get them to do a drop / load test to see if has the correct CCA rating, or just buy the OEM.

PS

On the electrical diagram it looks like they take the rectifier -Ve to the frame, like the starter and starter relay, high currents

I'll have a look around for the rectifier -Ve connector one day.

Likewise you have the signal neutrals, no / low currents through the S2 & S5 spiders.

I suppose if you loose the S1, most of the functions of the ECU wouldn't work, OUCH !

 

[Greb]

Thanks Ken, good info there. I've never heard the term "crook battery". Does that mean it is not charging? Or taking too much current to charge?

 

[HotRodZilla]

I think that means it is FUBAR in general.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Aussie slang, the battery could be buggered, fubared, carked it!!!

Like me old and worn out lol lol.

Don't know why, but they seem to loose their cranking ability when warm.

Like one of the battery cells failing.