Poll: What Valve Shims Did You Require?

[Fred W]

I previously started a poll thread to determine how often a re-shim has actually been required at the 24k mile prescribed valve clearance checks, and the results were quite meaningful IMO. The vast majority of the first checks were found to be all "in spec", with no shim changes required. I found this to be the case on my first check as well. But subsequent checks are increasingly more likely to need adjustment to the point where it's a 50% chance by the 3rd and subsequent checks. I did also notivce that all 8 of my intake clearances measured at the lower end of the spec range, which makes me suspect that this time around (my second) there will be at least a few that will need changing.

Looking at the Hot Cams 9.48mm diameter full shim kits, it appears that you get only 3 of each size shim (1.20 to 3.50mm in .05 increments) in a couple of plastic cases for $80.

Hot Cams also sells shim "refill kits" where you get 5 of each size shim in 6 incremental sizes per kit for $39, but just in plastic bags (no fancy divided cases). Each refill kit covers a range of sizes as follows:

1.20 - 1.45

1.50 - 1.75

1.80 - 2.05

2.10 - 2.35

2.40 - 2.65

2.70 - 2.95

3.00 - 3.25

3.25 - 3.50

It seems to me that our bikes would likely only use the shims in one or possibly two of these size ranges. Even if I had to buy two refill kits for $78, that would make much more sense to me to get 5 each of the shims that I might actually need than to buy a whole bunch of sizes that I'll never possibly need. I figure that I can procure my own fancy case somewhere locally.

As a point of reference, the FJR parts list has sizes listed running from 1.20 thru 2.40mm in .05 mm increments. But I suspect that you do not often find some of these sizes being used. I mean, how bad can the manufacturing tolerances be? And considering how infrequently any adjustment is actually required, how much range of wear would you expect there be to those initial shims?

I'd like to make up an FJR specific kit for my next valve check (just 4k miles away!!) and which I would then make available to other forum folks to use on a loaner basis. I would only ask that you replace any of the shims that you actually use before returning the kit. Having the right size shims on hand during the planned re-shim event is the key to getting the job done in one session. The individual shims are available from HotCams for $5 each, or from Mamma Yamma at $4.76 ea from Zanottis.

 

[griff]

Fred: I actually went one step further. I am about ready to do my second valve check and looking at what I had to do on the first check, and assuming they will only get tighter, I will probably need only 1.75, 1.80 and 1.85 shims. I bought the hot cams refill kits for these three sizes for about $25 - $6 per kit (5 shims in the kit) plus shipping. With these and probably some swapping, I should be good to go. I would be happy to participate in a valve shim library.

 

[Fred W]

That's a cool idea. If we get a few people to buy 3 sizes each, we should be able to fill in a few more of the probable sizes, once we figure out what those are, to include both the exhaust side as well as intakes (if there is any difference).

 

[mattster31]

When I did my valves over the winter. The main sizes were 180-190, with a few in between. I needed to buy 5 of one size. 3 of another and one single. I didn't bother with the eBay kit because it only provided 3 of each, and I would have been left with a boatload of shims I would probably never need. I now have a handful of 190's (and a few others around that) to offer up should anyone need some.

 

[griff]

That's a cool idea. If we get a few people to buy 3 sizes each, we should be able to fill in a few more of the probable sizes, once we figure out what those are, to include both the exhaust side as well as intakes (if there is any difference).

Not to mention the factory shims which are replaced that typically are 'off' sizes from the 0.05 mm increment.

 

[Constant Mesh]

My '04 OE intake shims were:

Left to Right, #1 to #4

185.4

182.4

183.4

183.6

185.4

183.1

177.8 Oddity, #4 Left

182.1

Measured with micrometer. Numbers not visible.

 

[RaYzerman19]

At our tech day, BikerGeek's shims appeared to be 1.80 primarily, with a couple of 1.77 and 1.83 here and there. I presume then that Mamma Yamma was shooting for 1.80 as nominal. I ended up swapping a couple here and there, and if memory serves, I only used 3 or 4 from the HotCams kit...... if I were doing it again, I would do my check during winter downtime, and order only the shims I needed from Yamaha when I could afford to wait.

 

[Fred W]

if I were doing it again, I would do my check during winter downtime, and order only the shims I needed from Yamaha when I could afford to wait.

That is certainly an option for those of us in Northern climes with big winter down time. Lotta folks aren't so "lucky".

But even for us, there are some negatives to that approach: Leaving the bike in a disassembled state, awaiting parts, requires a dedicated workspace. My garage workspace tends to be the most crowded in those wintry months. And leaving the top end of the engine wide open seems like an invitation for undesired ingress of little stuff. And then there's the age related dementia thing, trying to remember where all the bits and pieces originally came from a week or two later... :blink:

Whether done in winter or riding season, I think a shim library would be the way to go. It's sounding like we would only need a very limited range of sizes on hand.

 

[RaYzerman19]

All good points, Fred. I too suffer from 'old-timers' occasionally and normally like to get things buttoned up ASAP. The wait time here for parts is bad with Yamaha, relative to Honda dealers who can get parts overnight from a central warehouse. Yamaha parts can take a week or two depending on the distribution setup they have local to you. One would expect shims to be a standard item. Perhaps your local dealer has a shim collection, wouldn't hurt to ask if they will exchange with your old ones and what they charge.

As more report in, we may find the range is going to be primarily 1.75 thru 1.85, and there are 3 sizes of replacements. Preliminary theory - Assuming gaps will always get smaller with age, and that one might be able to swap 3 or 4 to get good gaps, one might only need a half dozen 175's, maybe a few 170's. But, considering money, and shims available individually for $1.50 one can afford to build a larger selection.

I have not done a thorough search of Hot Cams or Pro X, but so far, I found individual Pro X shims at Rocky Mountain ATVMC

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&vehicleId=6349&navTitle=Engine&webTypeId=50&webCatId=17&prodFamilyId=26634

We're all interested to see more data, though, so come on guys, report in!!

 

[SkooterG]

Hmmmm.......I am interested in this all of a sudden. I am determined to learn how to do my own valve check in the future. Today I found a Hot Cams shim kit on Craigslist for $50. Which then led me to find the same kit from Amazon for $69.29 with free shipping. Which led me to a search of the forum and this thread. Now, I would't mind a fancy plastic container to keep **** straight, but don't like throwing money away either.

Buy the kit? Buy the refill kit? What is the status of the 'library' kit?

FYI, my last valve adjustment by the dealer a month ago I paid $14.04 for two new shims. Ouch.

 

[carlson_mn]

All of mine were either 185, 188, or 190s if I remember correctly.