Ported Head

[Bungie]

My 2 cents. Put the bike on a diet (I don't think you can stand to lose much). Next, change the gearing. Wasn't the VMax final gear set a direct swap and you gain a 10% reduction, your 03 had the 'good' primary gear set from the factory. Throw in a heavy duty clutch while your at it.

I'm sure the Gen1's will haze the tires in first and likely the top of second as it sits from the factory, so, you'll need to address the traction issue.

Of course, I'm assuming this is all for quarter/eighth mile drag times. Your bike with these mods will lose no reliability or longevity because the engine has stayed stock. You'll still be able to tour with out destroying the bike prematurely.

 

[ionbeam]

...Put the bike on a diet (I don't think you can stand to lose much...

Hence The Flying Pig Project. Removing 200 lbs would be an awesome way to get the rig to be quicker and faster without having to do anything to the engine. Simply change from shaft drive to chain drive and get about 9%-11% more power to the rear wheel without having to do anything to the power production part of the engine. The shaft to chain drive conversion should get ya about 30 of the 200 lbs that porky needs to lose.

 

[DennisJ]

Where is the weight reduction going to come from? If 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile performance is what you want then the saddlebags are easy to remove. A shorter windshield tilted back (Rifle blocks?) I think the fairings are well optimized so you don't gain anything removing them except more drag. Rider weight reduction may be an alternative. I lost 40 lbs. after my 2012 accident. Was around 195 and 6 ft even' made a huge difference in my insulin requirements and I think the front end is lighter on the 1 - 2 shift when I have poor judgement. If there are other weight reduction possibilities that don't adversely affect the touring capabilities, comfort and just plain fun of the FJR I am interested but don't see the need for greater acceleration.

 

[BkerChuck]

If weight reduction is your goal there are a lot of places you can work from. None of them are likely to be cheap though. Carbon fiber bodywork? Titanium axles and fasteners? Lithium ion battery? Strip unnecessary parts like passenger footrests, swap exhaust to something lighter and better breathing.

I watched a former coworker attempt to remove over 180 pounds from a ZX11 Ninja several years ago. He went so far as to machine his own titanium axles as none were offered commercially.He removed the engine counter- balancers to lose weight, and rifle drilled as many fasteners as he could.

 

[ionbeam]

I was trying to illustrate a point with the Flying Pig, to go quick and fast the bike needs to be light. If the bike can't be light then when hot rodding the engine the power output profile will have to be favorable for moving mass, which probably won't make for a good sport/tour power profile. In my first post I was indicating that a good engine build program needs goals and engine power improvement is a system, you can't modify one element in the middle and expect the whole system to get a lot better.

Power adders are great but again, they aren't really easy to install and get dialed in for acceptable daily use. Things like NOS is really for track only WOT operation. Positive pressure solutions really need a thicker head gasket to reduce compression. Turbos come with a snakes nest of tubing. Supercharging has a lot of parasitic drag and is noisy. Electric superchargers will cook the FJRs electrical system. But most of all, the FJR's spark timing is not accessible and you would have to install an aftermarket ignition system to take advantage of most of the power adders.

 

[Fred W]

There is no question that it could be done. You could spend (an exorbitant amount of) time and money and make an FJR1300 engine put out upwards of around 200 hp. Any 1300 cc engine can do that given enough modifications and money. So as a design challenge it could be done.

The more salient question would be: Why bother? You could just start out with a Ninja 1400 that is already so much lighter, and more highly tuned, and isn't carrying all those expensive creature comforts that we all love on a 700 mile day, and that you'd have to throw in the trash, because they all weigh down the bike horribly.

It's really a bunch of pretty simple physics problems to solve:

If you want to be quick, you need high torque and low mass.

If you want to be fast you need good aerodynamics and high horsepower

If you want to be quick and fast you need minimum weight, maximum torque, and maximum horsepower,

And depending on how long the run is going to be, efficient aerodynamics will come into play.

 

[hppants]

All other things being equal (which they are not), I think the wind plays a big part on this. Getting yourself low, with your helmet tucked behind the windscreen and your legs tucked in well behind the fairings is a big deal.

You can't make the FJR a sport bike. At some point, the ergonomic ends will never justify the means.

I agree with Fred - save yourself a lot of headache, heartache, and money. Sell the FJR and buy a liter sport bike.

 

[900gc]

There is no question that it could be done. You could spend (an exorbitant amount of) time and money and make an FJR1300 engine put out upwards of around 200 hp. Any 1300 cc engine can do that given enough modifications and money. So as a design challenge it could be done.
The more salient question would be: Why bother? You could just start out with a Ninja 1400 that is already so much lighter, and more highly tuned, and isn't carrying all those expensive creature comforts that we all love on a 700 mile day, and that you'd have to throw in the trash, because they all weigh down the bike horribly.

It's really a bunch of pretty simple physics problems to solve:

If you want to be quick, you need high torque and low mass.

If you want to be fast you need good aerodynamics and high horsepower

If you want to be quick and fast you need minimum weight, maximum torque, and maximum horsepower,

And depending on how long the run is going to be, efficient aerodynamics will come into play.

You mean I can't get all this from polishing the ports? Dang...

 

[HotRodZilla]

Sure, polish the ports and blueprint the motor. That will take weeks, just because it's a time consuming PITA. For those that may not know what true blueprinting is, it requires plastiguage, patience and access to parts. Put a bearing in, torque the bolts and then pull it apart and measure the clearance. If it's out of spec, replace the bearing and do it again. A good blueprinted engine will spin for 30 seconds plus with just a hand spin. It's cool.

Really, one could probably bolt the motor back together and run it just like that, with a few extra horses, simply from the printing; but all that work to run regular fuel and the same compression? For a couple of horses?? ****, if my fat *** lost 40 lbs, that wold have the same effect. In reality, once the blueprinted motor is back together, it's time to start thinking intake, exhaust, high compression, fuel delivery. ALL the things Ionbeam mentioned on the previous page. That's cool for track days, not so much for 700+ mile days with good fuel economy and hardcore reliability.

You outta do it Falsus and let us know how it goes!

 

[Bungie]

Back in my bracket racing days (340 Duster), I got it into the 13's on street tires from the high 14's without spending a nickel on the engine.

Multiplying torque (high stall converter, 4:10 gear set) and chassis mods to put the power on the ground (Pinion snubber, baffed shocks in the front etc) made all the diff. Probably could've got it into the 12's going berserk unbolting **** to shed weight. But I still needed it to get to work in the rain on Monday morning.

 

[Bounce]

Good point. So many people head to the engine mods first without considering how to improve how they get the existing power to the ground.

The current issue of MCNews (US) has a good article about spending chunks of time and money chasing tidbits of improvements.

 

[Geezer]

Polishing the places where air flows sure looks nice, but the results may not be what you expect. A little turbulence can sometimes increase flow volume due to a lot of things that I don't want to understand. Enlarging the ports may help if there is enough material to allow for that, but without a change in valves and/or cams you won't gain much. IMHO, a turbo charger is the best way to go even with all the plumbing. Modern turbo technology has gotten to the point where lag is barely noticeable and the cost is almost reasonable.

 

[falsus nomen]

Ok Ok Ok So it's a complete waste of time. the manufacturing process has advanced to the stage we are now forced to accept nothing can be done to remotely give us an edge.
Guess me putting mothballs in the tank isn't worth killing the little fukers for the miniscule increase in performance then.. The tree huggers are now going to be knocking down me door!

Agreed. There is always ways to smooth out flow and increase fuel air mix.

Keep in mind, some of our bikes were cast over 15 years ago.

Well, allrighty then, the falsus nomen Flying Pig Project

How to make 650 lbs fly quicker, faster and higher.

All hot rodding items on the table. First, let's design the project (OMG, an engineering plan on which to stage a project). First, what target power level are you aiming for? What kind of Sport/Tour driving experience will the upgraded engine provide? Will the torque and HP come from more top end RPM or lower RPM breathing? What goals are there for fundamentals like piston size, rod stroke, combustion chamber volume & shape, valve size, compression ratio and cam profile? On the secondary items, how will the fuel mapping take place and how will you get an aftermarket ignition controller installed? Once all this is settled, it's time to look at air intake, intake runner length, header shape, length and exhaust system. While thinking things over, it's also time to dig out the plastigauge, micrometer and scales for a little blueprinting and balancing.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that an inexperienced person could do a fair amount of harm if they try to do shaping beyond just polishing. I have had the cylinder head off my '04 FJR, I've looked at the intake runners and cylinder head pockets (hardly a pocket) and decided that the 2 - 5 hp wouldn't be worth the work.

Look at all that opportunity to polish! Man, just makes ya want to break out the pneumatic hone... It sure makes a feller want to smooth, blend and knife edge ****.

Thank you for the pictures. There is clearly plenty of room for a larger intake valve, and possibly even a larger exhaust valve.

I have had plenty of flying pig projects, this should be nothing new. I've nitrous'ed Acura Legends, supercharged several trucks,

I was trying to illustrate a point with the Flying Pig, to go quick and fast the bike needs to be light. If the bike can't be light then when hot rodding the engine the power output profile will have to be favorable for moving mass, which probably won't make for a good sport/tour power profile. In my first post I was indicating that a good engine build program needs goals and engine power improvement is a system, you can't modify one element in the middle and expect the whole system to get a lot better.
Power adders are great but again, they aren't really easy to install and get dialed in for acceptable daily use. Things like NOS is really for track only WOT operation. Positive pressure solutions really need a thicker head gasket to reduce compression. Turbos come with a snakes nest of tubing. Supercharging has a lot of parasitic drag and is noisy. Electric superchargers will cook the FJRs electrical system. But most of all, the FJR's spark timing is not accessible and you would have to install an aftermarket ignition system to take advantage of most of the power adders.

The sport touring profile isnt ideal, but as you stated, the engine is a system, and there are clearly some weak points restricting it.

Power adders are an afterthought for a bike. If you can't do it with engine, you are doing it wrong. I have considered a turbo for one of my bikes, but not the FJR.

There is no question that it could be done. You could spend (an exorbitant amount of) time and money and make an FJR1300 engine put out upwards of around 200 hp. Any 1300 cc engine can do that given enough modifications and money. So as a design challenge it could be done.
The more salient question would be: Why bother? You could just start out with a Ninja 1400 that is already so much lighter, and more highly tuned, and isn't carrying all those expensive creature comforts that we all love on a 700 mile day, and that you'd have to throw in the trash, because they all weigh down the bike horribly.

It's really a bunch of pretty simple physics problems to solve:

If you want to be quick, you need high torque and low mass.

If you want to be fast you need good aerodynamics and high horsepower

If you want to be quick and fast you need minimum weight, maximum torque, and maximum horsepower,

And depending on how long the run is going to be, efficient aerodynamics will come into play.

Interesting point. I have a bike that can hang with a ninja 14, and its only 675, but modded to hell. I have built and run/raced the following:

Texas top sportsman: 400 smallblock with 300-200 dual stage nitrous on top, 4.70 1/8 mile breakouts.

586 Supercharged, no nitrous

Street: Grand prix GTP , ported supercharger, full build of a GM 3600, 12.4

Acura legend, headers, chip, 125 shot nitrous, 13.1 (best mod was timing, advance of 31 degrees over stock gave an extra 70 hp)

Chevy 5.3L with supercharger

Corvette LT1, all motor, stock bottom end 420 hp, full suspension, built for road racing (still own)

Ford Lightning, upgraded supercharger, 6 speed conversion

Triumph street triple, daytona cams, full exhaust, weight reduction, custom tune

I have built and raced everything from 6200 lb trucks to 370 lbs bikes. In my mind, the FJR is not a pig.

So, yes, I do have specific goals for a build. I would use the '16 6 speed, with the longer rear gearing spline.

I dont need to hit 1/4 mile times with the FJ, I can do 10 flats or high 9s with my triumph street triple build.

I would like to cruise at 90, at about 4k. I would like it to need minimal maintenance. And be the meanest sport touring on the block

An engine is an air pump. Thermodynamics says you can ignore irrelevant aspects such as fuel when designing. Cam, Intake, Exhaust, or cam mods can only produce more air flow, and more air flow is more power. After that, it is just adding the right fuel quantities and timing the spark.

Polishing the places where air flows sure looks nice, but the results may not be what you expect. A little turbulence can sometimes increase flow volume due to a lot of things that I don't want to understand. Enlarging the ports may help if there is enough material to allow for that, but without a change in valves and/or cams you won't gain much. IMHO, a turbo charger is the best way to go even with all the plumbing. Modern turbo technology has gotten to the point where lag is barely noticeable and the cost is almost reasonable.

Exactly Geezer. I have never seen a quality p&p not result in a gain in HP. Its all about flow control and adding a little turbulence can increase power to a large extent.

Also, I already have some friends working on a new cam profile for me. So there is that.

 

[hppants]

A taller tire might get you the gearing you are seeking, with the 6 speed. You could also consider using the pumpkin from the venture, which has a taller ring/pinion combo. That makes your performance objective and increased horsepower/torque demands even higher, though.

I get it - it's about the journey. If no one ever said "What if?", we'd still be living in caves, I suppose.

Wait a minute.... really I DON"T get it.

I do get what you are saying, and your thinking behind the issue, but I don't "get it". Obviously, this is enjoyment for you and you are quite good at it based on your experiences. Personally, I like doing preventative maintenance, and the occasional repair (if someone else tells me which part to change). But I'd much rather ride the bike than work on it.

But that's OK - I don't have to get it. I hope you break new ground with your project. I'll be reading every step of the way. I would recommend you keep the butt dyno out of it. Qualify your gains objectively, and leave no doubt. Offer even the details - weather conditions, fuel type and grade, oil type and grade, clutch condition, etc.

Otherwise, I'm subscribed to the Flying Pig Project.

 

[Bounce]

An engine is an air pump. Thermodynamics says you can ignore irrelevant aspects such as fuel when designing. Cam, Intake, Exhaust, or cam mods can only produce more air flow, and more air flow is more power. After that, it is just adding the right fuel quantities and timing the spark.

So, at what point does the increased flow of air and fuel trade HP for distance because your MPG drops enough to make gas stops more frequent? Elapsed times can often be more about time with the wheels turning than top speeds (or quickness).

I'll admit that it's because I have a different mind set than you. A lot of us chase the next mod. Yours just happens to be the motor while mine is often electrical (heck, my Marshall amp didn't stay stock for long either). But I will also admit that this thread made me think about "granny shifting; not double clutching like ya should".

 

[falsus nomen]

A taller tire might get you the gearing you are seeking, with the 6 speed. You could also consider using the pumpkin from the venture, which has a taller ring/pinion combo. That makes your performance objective and increased horsepower/torque demands even higher, though.
I get it - it's about the journey. If no one ever said "What if?", we'd still be living in caves, I suppose.

Wait a minute.... really I DON"T get it.

I do get what you are saying, and your thinking behind the issue, but I don't "get it". Obviously, this is enjoyment for you and you are quite good at it based on your experiences. Personally, I like doing preventative maintenance, and the occasional repair (if someone else tells me which part to change). But I'd much rather ride the bike than work on it.

But that's OK - I don't have to get it. I hope you break new ground with your project. I'll be reading every step of the way. I would recommend you keep the butt dyno out of it. Qualify your gains objectively, and leave no doubt. Offer even the details - weather conditions, fuel type and grade, oil type and grade, clutch condition, etc.

Otherwise, I'm subscribed to the Flying Pig Project.

Engines are what I know. If you cant tell from my post, I have modded / raced all sorts of things. I don't need a "race prepped" style bike, I have a little triumph if I want to hit the track.

I want something streetable, that I can take out and ride every day, but just a bit more kick. There are a lot of small things you can do, that add up, for example, on a small block chevy, you can go with an electric water pump, instead of chain driven, which frees up ~4-8 HP, depending on what its pumping out. Increases are really Percentages, not necessarily a HP number. Add up enough small percents and you can make a huge difference.

I am here to learn about motorcycle suspension (i know very little). I'll share what I know about engines.

An engine is an air pump. Thermodynamics says you can ignore irrelevant aspects such as fuel when designing. Cam, Intake, Exhaust, or cam mods can only produce more air flow, and more air flow is more power. After that, it is just adding the right fuel quantities and timing the spark.

So, at what point does the increased flow of air and fuel trade HP for distance because your MPG drops enough to make gas stops more frequent? Elapsed times can often be more about time with the wheels turning than top speeds (or quickness).

I'll admit that it's because I have a different mind set than you. A lot of us chase the next mod. Yours just happens to be the motor while mine is often electrical (heck, my Marshall amp didn't stay stock for long either). But I will also admit that this thread made me think about "granny shifting; not double clutching like ya should".

To each their own. I have my necessary creature comforts, and I would like some more kick. I do a lot of high speed superslab, and plenty of highway 1 corners.

Yes, you do consume more fuel per RPM. But if you have longer gearing, you can run at lower RPM, balancing that out, so the only side effect is speed.

I guess I need to find a short block and get to work:

Bottom end probably doesn't need touched, possibly oil squirters?

Head to a pro, see what we can do about valve sizing, port and polish. Possibly deck the head for a little more comp?

Cams off to a buddy to see about a regrind or if some other bike cam would have what I am looking for.

Fuel adjustment can come with a Power Commander....

Only major issue I see is with ignition timing.....

 

[Canadian FJR]

Do it and do it big.

Looking forward to this.

Canadian FJR

 

[rushes]

opcorn:

Glad my bike is capable of going faster than I can ride it already!

I love this stuff tho...

 

[Canadian FJR]

https://www.barnettclutches.com/fits-2003-10-fjr1300.html

This may be useful for your build.

I am currently using one in my '03.

Canadian FJR

 

[falsus nomen]

All hot rodding items on the table. First, let's design the project (OMG, an engineering plan on which to stage a project). First, what target power level are you aiming for? What kind of Sport/Tour driving experience will the upgraded engine provide? Will the torque and HP come from more top end RPM or lower RPM breathing? What goals are there for fundamentals like piston size, rod stroke, combustion chamber volume & shape, valve size, compression ratio and cam profile? On the secondary items, how will the fuel mapping take place and how will you get an aftermarket ignition controller installed? Once all this is settled, it's time to look at air intake, intake runner length, header shape, length and exhaust system. While thinking things over, it's also time to dig out the plastigauge, micrometer and scales for a little blueprinting and balancing.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that an inexperienced person could do a fair amount of harm if they try to do shaping beyond just polishing. I have had the cylinder head off my '04 FJR, I've looked at the intake runners and cylinder head pockets (hardly a pocket) and decided that the 2 - 5 hp wouldn't be worth the work.

I was trying to illustrate a point with the Flying Pig, to go quick and fast the bike needs to be light. If the bike can't be light then when hot rodding the engine the power output profile will have to be favorable for moving mass, which probably won't make for a good sport/tour power profile. In my first post I was indicating that a good engine build program needs goals and engine power improvement is a system, you can't modify one element in the middle and expect the whole system to get a lot better.
Power adders are great but again, they aren't really easy to install and get dialed in for acceptable daily use. Things like NOS is really for track only WOT operation. Positive pressure solutions really need a thicker head gasket to reduce compression. Turbos come with a snakes nest of tubing. Supercharging has a lot of parasitic drag and is noisy. Electric superchargers will cook the FJRs electrical system. But most of all, the FJR's spark timing is not accessible and you would have to install an aftermarket ignition system to take advantage of most of the power adders.

This hits the nail on the head. However, it doesn't need to be a track day build, just a nice tuned up build. Turbos on a bike are a mess, and NOS is only good for shorts bursts when you are at WOT. Electric turbo/superchargers are all ******** anyway. Not a big enough engine to drive a reasonably sized twin screw blower, so thats out, plus there isnt a lot of room.

1. I don't see any need to alter intake runner length, or header primaries, the power delivery range is fine. Powerband doesn't need to be shifted up much, mostly just increase breathing. A slightly shorter intake runner might help a little bit for top end breathing.

2. FJR is already oversquare. 79.0 mm × 66.2 mm. Not as much as a ZX-14 (84x65), but still, enough that it can rev. With a slightly shorter runner, could probably make better power out to 10k. Rod stroke is fine. Unless valve clearance is tight, stock bottom end should be ok. If the valve clearance is really tight, so that not much can be done, then punching it out .020" and doing a different piston shape for valve relief and higher compression would be an option, but would want the same wrist pin height, skirts, same rod length, etc.

3. Combustion chamber / Compression. A little extra compression would be nice. As long as the valve clearance is ok, you can mill the head to create slightly higher compression. I don't see a need to alter the combustion chamber size/shape, just clean it up for better airflow.

4. Cam, Timing, LSA, valve springs. Need to check valve clearances before going into this. With a little more lift and duration, but no change to overlap (or very slight), the powerband can stay the same, just breathe a little better.

5. Fuel and Timing. That is yet to be seen, but open to ideas.