PowerCommander, is it really worth it?

[NorthRider]

I don't know if it's my perception or what, but The PCIII with the wally smoothness map runs cooler than a FJR in it's stock configuration. At least it appears to run cooler on my bike.

Has anyone try the 001 map ? does it run cooler than Wally's map? If so what's the trade off ?

 

[afterburn]

I ordered one at a very good price (wholesale, don't ask) so I will be anxiously waiting for its arrival and I can play with it. I will start with the map for the the standard Euro spec FJR, and make an appointment with a highly regarded tuner close to here for a custom map.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[FJRmogul]

Has anyone try the 001 map ? does it run cooler than Wally's map? If so what's the trade off ?

I think the 001 map is the same as the stock map which is leaner than Wally's Smoothness map.

 

[Groo]

And just in case anyone is curious about what a dyno tuning session consists of... Bounce has a nice writeup on his site...

Dyno tuning with a PCIII

 

[mindtrip]

I ordered one at a very good price (wholesale, don't ask) so I will be anxiously waiting for its arrival and I can play with it. I will start with the map for the the standard Euro spec FJR, and make an appointment with a highly regarded tuner close to here for a custom map.
Thanks for all the replies!

Um, okay, I'll ask--where'd you get a wholesale price, cuz I want one!

 

[afterburn]

Let's just say I am closely related to a dealer.

 

[Mike-H]

Let's just say I am closely related to a dealer.

Which translated means: I NOT SHARING

 

[Ari Rankum]

I looked into the PCIII and became uninterested as soon as was unable to find the instruction, "Reconnect the O2 sensor" after having found "Disconnect the O2 sensor". As a systems kind of guy, I'm actually very fond of feedback mechanisms as a means for adjusting inputs according to measured outputs.

Is someone here able to explain why my concerns about a farkle that removes a feedback mechanism are misplaced?

 

[afterburn]

Because in order for the PC to do it's job, you have to disable the feedback loop to prevend the ECU to undo the changes of the PC by correcting its signals based on the reading of the O2 sensor.

Does that make any sense? I'm confusing myself at the moment. I need to get in bed.

 

[jaybird]

I reluctantly post this reply, cause I don't really know what I'm talking about here... :blink: , but the dealer (one of the service techs) suggested I install a "DFO" (Digital Fuel Optimizer) -- as he noticed that after I installed my Blue Flame exhausts, that the engine was not running smoothly. And, that he had installed one of these DFO's on another FJR in the area and that it made a big difference.

And, he was right. The engine has no flutter in any rpm area -- smooth as silk up to 9K. Again, I don't really know how it differs from the power commander -- but it sure helped my 05 FJR. Jay

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

PC is the only way to go. i have the Hoeshot full system and a PCIII with a custom map built by Dale Walker's friend who does some of his work and Dyno's bikes and can build a custom map to your specs, like performance, economy etc. He charges $200 to build a map from scratch and in the case of the FJR with maps at Dynajet anywhere from$70 to $150 depending on how much tweaking. I get 42+ on the freeway with this set up depending of course on variables, like weather,speed, head or tailwinds and the like. I had Wally's smoothness map loaded before with just the cans and it ran greay but not as good as a custom for your area and style of riding.

 

[rogdeb]

I reluctantly post this reply, cause I don't really know what I'm talking about here... :blink: , but the dealer (one of the service techs) suggested I install a "DFO" (Digital Fuel Optimizer) -- as he noticed that after I installed my Blue Flame exhausts, that the engine was not running smoothly. And, that he had installed one of these DFO's on another FJR in the area and that it made a big difference.
And, he was right. The engine has no flutter in any rpm area -- smooth as silk up to 9K. Again, I don't really know how it differs from the power commander -- but it sure helped my 05 FJR. Jay

Do you have a link or phone # for the DFO ?

Thanks

 

[rogdeb]

Never mind !

I found it - thanks

 

[sgoat]

Care to share that phone# / address with the rest of us? Thanks! Sounds like the teclusion (spelling) unit.

 

[Ari Rankum]

Because in order for the PC to do it's job, you have to disable the feedback loop to prevend the ECU to undo the changes of the PC by correcting its signals based on the reading of the O2 sensor.
Does that make any sense? I'm confusing myself at the moment. I need to get in bed.

Yeah, that makes sense. But only for the current implementation of the Power Commander, IMO. I would think a complete Power Commander solution would itself make use of the information from the O2 sensor. It's valuable to know what the composition of your exhaust gases is, and I'm not talking about keeping the comforter pulled over your head. The OEM design attempts to get the combustion right on the front end, then uses the O2 sensor to measure whether the mixture is actually good. Clearly, Yammie doesn't think they can get combustion completely right without measuring the output. If they could, they'd ditch the O2 sensor and save some cost. Using the O2 sensor seems like a good strategy to me.

That's why I'm surprised the PCIII ditches this potentially valuable system input. Theoretically, the Power Commander could use such an input to verify that the programmed changes in the map actually do no harm.

Am I smoking crack?

 

[DocDanDC]

In my experience the 001map runs cool but does so by running richer on the low end of the RPM's.

The 000map is the same as having No PC map and the bike should run like stock.

When I tried the Wally's map, the dealer mechanic loaded it for me so I know that it was there and not screwed up. It was a hot summer day August '05 @ about 90 degrees F. My FJR ran hot, but it was smooth and seemed to sound OK. Just hot! I went back to the dealer and switched it back to the 001 map. It then ran cool, with two bars and has been fine ever since. He had just done the oil and a TBS right before the map install.

 

[Blue1]

Try the "Carb-Sim" MAP. It richens-up the low-end rpm's(idle on up) where you feel most of the heat. The FJR's fuel has been leaned-out on the low end to meet EPA standards, the "Carb-Sim" fixes that and the surge.

 

[Pam]

Because in order for the PC to do it's job, you have to disable the feedback loop to prevend the ECU to undo the changes of the PC by correcting its signals based on the reading of the O2 sensor.

Does that make any sense? I'm confusing myself at the moment. I need to get in bed.

Yeah, that makes sense. But only for the current implementation of the Power Commander, IMO. I would think a complete Power Commander solution would itself make use of the information from the O2 sensor. It's valuable to know what the composition of your exhaust gases is, and I'm not talking about keeping the comforter pulled over your head. The OEM design attempts to get the combustion right on the front end, then uses the O2 sensor to measure whether the mixture is actually good. Clearly, Yammie doesn't think they can get combustion completely right without measuring the output. If they could, they'd ditch the O2 sensor and save some cost. Using the O2 sensor seems like a good strategy to me.

That's why I'm surprised the PCIII ditches this potentially valuable system input. Theoretically, the Power Commander could use such an input to verify that the programmed changes in the map actually do no harm.

Am I smoking crack?

No, I hope you are not smoking crack. But the way the PCIII works is that it deceives the ECM into thinking the bike is doing something it's not...running lean, running rich, etc... So you see if you are giving it information that contradicts what the PCII is trying to make the ECM believe, then things won't work properly. Now if you want to make changes directly to the ECM, there is a way. A product from Techno Research called Direct Link gives you that option. Not as user friendly, but certainly as (or more) effective. I am not sure if there is a unit for the 06 FJR but I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

Pam

 

[ionbeam]

I don't think Techno Research's Direct Link supports the FJR. Some ECUs will allow you to modify code or change values in EPPROM or SRAM others won't. I'm pretty sure the FJR is a won't.

The PCIII actually sits piggyback on the fuel injectors and does not interface with the ECU. The PCIII intercepts the injector signals and then alters them by some percentage and can delay or alter the timing of the injector pulse but that is it. The ECU doesn't know the PCIII is there. This allows the ECU to continue to use all the factory sensors. If the O2 sensor was still attached, the ECU would detect that that the result of the injector pulse was not what it expected and will alter the next injector pulse, negating the PCIII.

A real short coming of the PCIII in the FJR application is the inability to re-map spark in conjunction with the injector pulse. Altering spark timing will produce slightly more power but will also require higher octane fuel. Advancing spark timing also presents a real chance to do damage. :glare:

My car does allow reprogramming using software that alters values stored in the PCM (my car's equivalent to the ECU). This opens the opportunity to alter everything, for better or worse. Since it actually changes stored values in look-up tables it allows the car to retain the O2 sensors as an active component. We have programmed literally hundreds of cars on chassis dynos and it truly does add considerable power to lightly modified engines.

 

[radman]

Repost from "Throttle lag"

"There are now ten (10) PCIII maps available at the Dynojet site. I run the Dale Walker map as I have the header system. These maps can be altered (and saved) on your home PC any which way you choose, if you think you can improve them, or you can go to a Dynojet shop and have your bike custom mapped for any particular setup/needs/desires you can come up with. This is one of the big benefits of going with the PC over other FI modules. You can (and I do) run a power map for beatin' round da hood, or load a mileage map for that long trip, it solves the surging and rideability issues Yam provided in the oe setup, and, barring getting a custom mapping done, this all comes for roughly $280 and a 1 hour at most install time that even TDub could accomplish with but one trip to the ER. I really don't know of any single bigger engine improvement that I have done that comes close to the value represented by my PC, or, for that matter, on the whole bike. No brainer IMHO."