Practicing Panic Stops?

[starcruiser(aka downn2)]

Ok, Ok, all this talk about how to stay alive has gotten my attention...I've seen several post recommending practicing high speed panic stops, especially if you have ABS on your bike, which I do......as this seems to be very important to you, so I figure I better give it some practice!

Please advise just how you've achieved a proficiency on PANIC STOPS.......maybe you started at 20 MPH, then tried 40 MPH, then 60, then 80, then 100 or what? Do you hit the brakes as hard as you can at say 40 -60mph until you come to a complete stop or what?

 

[RadioHowie]

If you haven't felt the ABS kick in on your rear brake, it's fairly simple to do...just stomp the sucker when you're alone on a straight stretch of road. It WILL scare the shit out of you the first time, but you'll be amazed how the rear will NOT lock up. In truth, you can slam that rear down and the ABS will control the stop SO well, you'll be hauled down to 0mph in short order, straight and true, without a touch of lockup or skid. In fact, you can overheat the rear very easily by doing a hard stop with the rear ONLY. The ABS will modulate the brake well enough to stop you safely, at the absolute limit of adhesion, and at the point where you'll smell the pads when it's all over. Yamaha's engineers deserve kudos for not trading off braking effectiveness for antilock effectiveness.

Speaking personally, I've never hammered the front brakes hard enough to set off the ABS on the front. I am NOT looking forward to the day ABS kicks in on the front, as the brakes haul this beast down fast enough to force a mini-stoppie just with heavy use. Granted, not a panic situation, but Jeezus...I hope I never need ABS on the front.

 

[jayshaw91]

I had to use my ABS once and it was freaky, a rush, and comforting all at once... if that's possible.

Stupid minivan w/ bad brake lights pulled in front of me. Until we got to the light - oh, and it was raining, BTW - I had no idea the brake lights were shoddy on the large, ugly cage I was tailing. Grabbed a handful, stomped the back, things shook (I knew it was ABS) and stopped with a lot of room to spare. 45 to 0 in about .00003 seconds. Incredible. Nice to know I have them, but I don't plan to use them often

 

[HIGHLANDER]

Please advise just how you've achieved a proficiency on PANIC STOPS.......maybe you started at 20 MPH, then tried 40 MPH, then 60, then 80, then 100 or what? Do you hit the brakes as hard as you can at say 40 -60mph until you come to a complete stop or what?

I practice this a lot, both solo and two up with the wife on the back. We find a huge empty lot, slowly roll through the " braking area " making sure it's very clean, no oil, leaves etc., usually the furthest point from the storefront entrance.

Then we start doing exactly what you describe, maybe five runs at each speed , starting slowly and braking harder each time, then increasing speed getting faster all the time, till I'm happy with the practice session.

The good thing about doing it in a parking lot is you can count the parking places and see the progress you've made in shortening your braking distance, by always hitting the brakes in the same spot all the time.

After mastering this art for a couple months, you can then introduce a swerve point into the game. Put something in the braking path , like a bandana, then brake, swerve, brake, or practice swerving under braking.

While your in the same lot, practise slow speed turning sessions, both one and two up. If you " hang off " , like in the twisties, ( but to the outside of the bike, not the inside ) you can get some slow tight turning radiuses, especially two up. We usually start with the low speed exercises first.

Sometime we'd practise this on the way to " group rides " so it's fresh in our heads exactly what threshold braking can be.

Hope that helps.. no matter how many miles anyone has under their belt.. practice is a good thing !!!

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Braking practice could be a chapter in a book. That said, it's pretty much common sense.

Emergency braking should be practiced at various speeds and attitudes.

1) Find a secluded area where you have long sight lines.

2) Practice emergency stops in a straight line for 15, 30, 45, 65 and up to whatever m.p.h. you are willing to ride. If you ride that fast, you need to practice stops from that fast.

3) When you first begin this practice, do not just go slam brakes on fully! Begin with just rear brake, then go front then go both at each speed. This gives you an idea of each brakes stopping power which can be really important for later excercises.

4) Don't just slam on the brakes the first time! Take successive runs and just do strong, but not pannicked braking to begin with. Then do 2 to three more runs where you take it all the way up to ABS activation. This allows you to test the friction of the surface you are on, but also knowing your brakes means more than just knowing how fast you can stop in a pannick. Avoiding accidents often requires steering input and you need to know what your brakes can do and how to do it. (unless you like high siding that is)

There...do all that, then when you are really good at it (won't take long) you'll be ready to read the riding books that you ordered (search this site). Read the books. They are useful and you never know what kind of lousy made up advice you'll get here....no matter how good it can be!

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

I try to practice as best as possible when out riding, but it never seems to be the full out of my mind stop.

Then on my way to meet my mother last Saturday to trweat her to lunch, there I was zooming down the highway, running late, having a great time just rolling on by all of the other folks out there, when all of the sudden over a hill I am gaining on the car in front of me rapidly.

All of the sudden as I am looking through the rear window of the car to see what is going on, I get the sense i need to bring this baby to a halt, slowly apply both brakes then hit them for all they are worth as yes traffic stopped just like that, if I did not do a stoppie I had to be close. I always get the stretching sound of lock up, but the bike does not lock up. have been able to come to a controlled stop each time I have had a reason to apply these abs breaks at a moments notice.

Love the breaks would not have bought a bike with out them, watched some Harleys coming to a light the other day, two, going along, light goes yellow then red and they try to stop, seemed like they were sliding, one was able to stop the other was lucky and went through the inter section, good thing it wasn't an intersection of doom.

btw the reason for the all out stop was a river inner tube came undown from a boat and they stopped in the road to get it.

have to watch them all, and yes you can practice controlled stops that will be effective for your motor skills when you really have to grab those breaks hard, that way you have at least a sense of what you may encounter, when doing it for real.

 

[temp357]

Take an advanced MSF course?

 

[Timbo2015]

My recommendation for those with ABS who want to test the front brake for the first time is to start at a fairly high speed, 50-60 mph. Let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, and apply increasing force to the front brake until you feel the ABS kick in. Starting with a higher speed is better because the bike is more stable at higher speeds, plus you will have a lot more time to increase the brake force up to ABS activation. After you get used to it, practice at lower speeds and with the rear.

I did this for the first time a few months ago. The most surprising thing is the long, skinny, faint skid mark the front wheel leaves on the road. After testing, I recommend turning around and take a close look for the skid mark.

 

[madmike2]

4) Don't just slam on the brakes the first time! Take successive runs and just do strong, but not pannicked braking to begin with. Then do 2 to three more runs where you take it all the way up to ABS activation.

Exactly! Don't "hammer" the brakes, but train yourself to "squeeze" the brakes, progressively and smoothly applying more pressure.

Since you are already covering the front brake with 2 fingers (aren't you?) try to teach yourself to squeeze the clutch and shift down while you are rolling the throttle closed and squeezing the front brake. Sounds easy, right?

As Orangevale says, continue to increase the brake pressure until you reach the ABS threshhold. You may be surprised at how much brake force is available to you before you reach the front ABS activation point. The rears will activate earlier as the weight is pitched forward onto the front wheel.

Practice, practice, practice! Reading this thread has reminded me that I need to go practice as it's been weeks since I did so.

 

[starcruiser(aka downn2)]

Two people now have recommended practicing stopping using only the front brake......which seems highly unusual,, as that used be a suicidal thing to do back when......I guess linked brakes means if I hit the front brakes some force will be sent to the rear brakes as well and visa versa?

 

[BIODSL]

Ok, Ok, all this talk about how to stay alive has gotten my attention...I've seen several post recommending practicing high speed panic stops, especially if you have ABS on your bike, which I do......as this seems to be very important to you, so I figure I better give it some practice!
Please advise just how you've achieved a proficiency on PANIC STOPS.......maybe you started at 20 MPH, then tried 40 MPH, then 60, then 80, then 100 or what? Do you hit the brakes as hard as you can at say 40 -60mph until you come to a complete stop or what?

I just totaled my FJR by locking, then letting up (I knew better!!) then highsiding. Here's how an MSF instructor told me to practice:

But, you can always practice the braking exercise yourself in a parking lot somewhere. Here’s what to do:

Start off slowly and just squeezing the brakes softly.

Measure your stopping distance each time and mark a place to start your braking. Start your braking there each time as closely as possible.

Approach that breaking spot at about 15 mph at first. Slowly increase your speed as you gain confidence to about 30 mph. You do NOT need a lot of speed to get good at this exercise so, don’t over-do it.

As you get more confident, do the following to decrease your stopping distance WITHOUT skidding:

Apply both brakes at the same time. Basically, use both hands and both feet to pull the clutch in, downshift to first, apply rear brake, and apply the front brake. Using all four appendages at the same time is easier to remember in a panic situation. Practice it over and over.

Once your weight has transferred to the front fork, slowly increase your squeeze on your hand brake. THIS IS THE KEY TO A QUICK STOP.

If your front tire begins to skid, let up gently on the front brake and then re-apply softer. The bike will regain its line.

Always look at the horizon as far ahead as possible (at dark, this can be a problem as you noted).

Do not increase your rear brake. If the rear begins to skid, stay on that rear brake and ride out the skid.

You will be amazed at how much you can squeeze on the front brake once your weight has transferred to the front of the bike. Just gently keep increasing your squeeze until you stop. Keep your head and eyes UP, not down at the ground. You go where you look.

Another exercise that is very similar is to purposefully cause a rear skid and ride it out. This can be a little freaky at first if you’re not used to doing this but, I used to do it as a kid on bikes all the time. It’s easy. Just remember to stay on the rear brake and look far ahead. This will help you steer through the skid to a stop.

Of course, if you have ABS, you won’t be able to do that exercise.

Hope this helps.

Paul Peloquin

Monmouth OR

 

[madmike2]

Two people now have recommended practicing stopping using only the front brake......which seems highly unusual,, as that used be a suicidal thing to do back when......I guess linked brakes means if I hit the front brakes some force will be sent to the rear brakes as well and visa versa?

While I focused mainly on technique for the front brake, I surely expected anyone practicing panic stops to use both. Why would the technique have been suicidal "back when" unless its because of the limited tire adhesion and the attendant "locking" of the front wheel.

With modern front tire size and compound and since 80% of brake force is directed at the front tire, it would seem that being able to control the motorcycle while using all of the available brake force possible on the front tire is a good thing to practice. Why do you think there are 2 larger discs on the front and 1 smaller disc on the rear? Partly because severe usage of the rear brake only causes it to lock and slide (even with a smaller, single disc) leading to unintended bad results.

Re: FJR linked brakes. IIRC, there is no front brake pressure linked to the rear brake (Someone with a service manual or other specific knowledge correct me if I'm wrong). There is one piston on the front wheel that IS linked to the rear brakes, so when maximum braking is needed, all available pistons should be in used concert by applying both brakes, and, when "dragging" the rear brake while preparing to or entering a turn, one need not worry about applying unwanted full front brake because of the linked set-up.

Personally, I use the front brake exclusively about 85-90% of the time. The rear brake is used at parking lot speeds to stabilize the bike or whenever the road surface (or gravel, sand, etc.) is suspect, i.e., water or oil at a red signal. I do use the rear occaissionally just to keep my rear brake usage in practice.

 

[chickey191]

Two people now have recommended practicing stopping using only the front brake......which seems highly unusual,, as that used be a suicidal thing to do back when......I guess linked brakes means if I hit the front brakes some force will be sent to the rear brakes as well and visa versa?

that would be because something like 80% of your braking comes from the front - NOT the rear.

I didn't notice but perhaps someone mentioned NOT TO SWERVE WHILE BRAKING. MSF teaches you to swerve first then brake. The reason is that the front can wash out under hard braking combined with swerving. You only have so much traction in your tires. If all the traction is being used under braking, then you don't have any left during the swerving. If all your traction is being used in swerving, then it doesn't leave any during braking.

Practice STRAIGHT line panic stops - if you don't have ABS - try locking up the rear wheel and LEAVING IT LOCKED until you stop. If you let up on a locked rear and you aren't near perfectly straight you will high side because the bike will want to straighten up on its own and will throw you off in the process.

Rather than any of us beat a dead horse or talk you into doing something on your own - if you honestly believe that you should be braking with the rear only or mostly..... then you need to get yourself to a class where they can teach you in a controlled environment how to do this.

all that said - parking lot practice SHOULD be done after any layoff from riding - whenever you get a new bike or whenever you change something on the bike or try something new (like 2-up riding). The bike's handling may have changed and you need to understand how so.

controlled practice - at slow and then increasing speeds is good. There are lots of books on the subject -

David Hough's is good as well as Keith Code's and others. MSF is very good (or at least it used to be) at this stuff. Where the MSF (at least the old course) seemed to lack was in higher speed maneuvers.

 

[kaitsdad]

if you honestly believe that you should be braking with the rear only or mostly..... then you need to get yourself to a class where they can teach you in a controlled environment how to do this.

+1,000.

Get thee to a class. Do it in a controlled evironment.

 

[odot]

Just play in heavy traffic.....sooner or later...you'll figure it out.

 

[Toecutter]

Just play in heavy traffic.....sooner or later...you'll figure it out.

Odot beat me to it.
I figured it out yesterday, again, exiting the freeway and turning left over the overpass. There was a big rig turning right, blocking all my sight to the right, so I just eased out to the middle, where I saw another one approaching at a fair clip. So, I jumped on it, and about the time I was running out of second gear pull, I noticed some stopped traffic up ahead. Perfect situation for practicing a panic stop, when it counts! I don't recommend doing high stakes practice, such as running hard at a wall and seeing if you can stop in time.

Disclaimer- Never, ever, take this piece of advice.

 

[odot]

Good eye, dude.....and remember....if you rear end a semi on your fjr...make sure you have dental insurance.

 

[Hitcher]

Please advise just how you've achieved a proficiency on PANIC STOPS.......maybe you started at 20 MPH, then tried 40 MPH, then 60, then 80, then 100 or what? Do you hit the brakes as hard as you can at say 40 -60mph until you come to a complete stop or what?

There's a big difference, in my recent experience, between practice and reality. The reason I now ride an FJR, apart from gaining enlightenment, is because I wrote off my ST1300 on the arse of a Toyota RAV4 in circumstances that weren't really my fault.

"How could that be, Hitcher?" I hear you ask?

Well, a Sunday ride turned to custard when the driver of the said RAV4 that I was following managed to get his vehicle into reverse gear at about 100kmh in the overtaking lane along which I was following. My first indication that something may be awry was noting his reverse lights had come on. "Interesting," I thought. Followed a couple of moments later by the realisation that he had come to a complete stop. "Holy ****!" I went for the anchors (STs have linked brakes that I rate highly in most circumstances) and felt the front wheel lock up. I eased off that and went hard on the rear and then re-engaged the front. Too late I ran out of options and impacted the rear of the RAV before getting the Honda to a stop. If I had reacted immediately I had seen the reverse lights come on, the extra second or two would have possibly given me a chance to go around him.

The Police laid careless driving charges against the RAV driver (it was his first day out in an automatic vehicle) and I now get to ride an FJR.

But back to the topic, I regularly practice stopping. I generally don't do it at speeds in excess of 80kmh. My drill is to do a few stops using the rear brake only to start, then a few with the front brake only and a few using both brakes in tandem. I also aim to be in first gear by the time I come to a dead stop. I then put a foot down, do a head check for other traffic and go immediately. I've been doing this for a few years now. An outcome of this is that I automatically downshift when stopping, so never have to fanny around while stationary looking for first gear.

 

[Fred H.]

One point many folks miss in practicing braking, is to include their passenger in the drill. I practice emergency stops with my wife on back, so she knows what to expect under heavy hard braking. Of course, I warn her about it before I do. It has helped in many cases where I had to put the binders on hard when she is on back as now she knows how to react. It has taught her to keep her hands on or near the grab rails at all times.

On the 06 with linked brakes and ABS you won't be able to get full braking force on the front brakes unless you use BOTH front and rear brake levers. It takes a bit of re-learning on linked brakes, as like many folks, I try to go real easy on the rear so it won't lock up. ABS takes the worry out of locking the rear, so you are free to put more pressure on it, and since this also applies force to the front brakes, you won't get full front brakes without adding some rear. I try to use both brakes together on every stop.

Which brings me to another point. You should brake the same way on almost every stop as you would in a panic stop. This is because in a panic, you will fall back to your normal stopping routine by default. So if you stop with BOTH brakes (on an 06 anyway) every time, this will be what you do by habit in a panic.

After owning two bikes with Linked Brakes and ABS, I won't ever buy another bike without them.