Pulled over by CSI

[Checkswrecks]

Been lurking and I think the relevant points are these:

1. You were over the limit. Why he pulled you over is probably because you - out of all the traffic - caught his eye. But why is irrelevant, as you were speeding, be it 71 mph or 171 mph.

2. You mentioned being suspicious he was an officer when you passed. If you didn't listen to your gut, well....

3. He did identify himself right off. Yes, you could've had him follow you to a station, but it sounds like he did things by the book. If he let you off on an 85 in a 70, you oughtn't *****. I really don't think you would have gotten that leniency if you'd led him to a station.

4. As long as he is a genuine sworn officer, it really doesn't matter what department he works in and it was more about his priorities at the minute. Obviously, if your guy did this when he was supposed to be heading to a big homicide, his boss probably would not be happy with him doing a warning stop. I doubt it happened this way, because most CSI tasks are pretty mundane. More likely, if he was heading home or just running bags of evidence to a lab, his boss may appreciate his showing the initiative for what he could have let pass. In either case, you'll never know.

Related bit - I have a neighbor who is a little blonde game warden and always finds that people are floored when she pulls them over with her big green pickup. What people aren't aware of, is that game wardens are officially part of our State Patrol, she is fully trained to work a patrol car, and if they speed through her park or even past her while she's on the interstate while headed to the area she is to patrol, part of her job is to cite them. The best part is that she puts a regulation set of pink handcuffs on the tough guys.

 

[Moosehead]

What we really want to know........When he got out of his SUV(which I hope was a Hummer) die he put his hand on his hip, remove his glasses and look at you sideways? And did he have a scantilly clad hottie in the seat beside him? If so, then he was a genuine CSI for real.

 

[Bustanut joker]

What we really want to know........When he got out of his SUV(which I hope was a Hummer) die he put his hand on his hip, remove his glasses and look at you sideways? And did he have a scantilly clad hottie in the seat beside him? If so, then he was a genuine CSI for real.

Way to get this back on track Moose! :clapping:

'Twas getting a little to serious..

 

[networkguy]

What we really want to know........When he got out of his SUV(which I hope was a Hummer) die he put his hand on his hip, remove his glasses and look at you sideways? And did he have a scantilly clad hottie in the seat beside him? If so, then he was a genuine CSI for real.

I think this is what happened...

 

[Checkswrecks]

What we really want to know........When he got out of his SUV(which I hope was a Hummer) die he put his hand on his hip, remove his glasses and look at you sideways? And did he have a scantilly clad hottie in the seat beside him? If so, then he was a genuine CSI for real.

Way to get this back on track Moose! :clapping:

'Twas getting a little to serious..

C'mon 'Bust, you were focused on this thought:

Dolly 'd probably like them on ewe.

:lol:

 

[MojaveFJR]

Think he just wanted a look at the bike. Come on, the FJR is one sleek, sexy machine and due to lack of badging (which I happen to like), he just wanted to check out your ride.

FJR appreciator.

Calibrated SPEEDO. RIGHT, what was your standard buddy, got a cert date? What is the periodic calibration period on that thing?

 

[Bounce]

My first reply was because, over on https://forums.officer.com/ , I see cops commenting a lot about non-cops decking their vehicles out with emergency lights and some going so far as playing cop.

Without exception it really pisses them off and they caution others about stopping in remote locations for questionable vehicles/officers.

The hard part is if you don't stop for the real officer that's as described above. So what do you do? If you're driving, call 911 and explain what's happening and your concern about the unmarked car trying to pull you over. On a bike it's tougher. If you're in a populated area, indicate that you're pulling over but do it in a well-lit area with lots of people around (preferably a police station). That does 2 things, it makes the stop safer for the officer and you as it gets him/her out of the traffic and you where there's a higher chance of help if it is one of those fake cops.

The remote areas are another thing. Since there's nothing nearby to go to, you're stuck. The trade off is that there's also less risk of it being anything other than an officer if you're remote enough, since sensible people (leaving out endurance riders and non-cops) wouldn't want be out there much more than the general population.

But the forum is rife with conflicting responses. In a thread about recent assaults by pretend cops, they'll give the advice about finding a safer place to stop. In a thread about failing to stop for an unmarked car, they'll bag on the driver/rider for not stopping right away.

 

[HotRodZilla]

My first reply was because, over on https://forums.officer.com/ , I see cops commenting a lot about non-cops decking their vehicles out with emergency lights and some going so far as playing cop.

Without exception it really pisses them off and they caution others about stopping in remote locations for questionable vehicles/officers.

The hard part is if you don't stop for the real officer that's as described above. So what do you do? If you're driving, call 911 and explain what's happening and your concern about the unmarked car trying to pull you over. On a bike it's tougher. If you're in a populated area, indicate that you're pulling over but do it in a well-lit area with lots of people around (preferably a police station). That does 2 things, it makes the stop safer for the officer and you as it gets him/her out of the traffic and you where there's a higher chance of help if it is one of those fake cops.

The remote areas are another thing. Since there's nothing nearby to go to, you're stuck. The trade off is that there's also less risk of it being anything other than an officer if you're remote enough, since sensible people (leaving out endurance riders and non-cops) wouldn't want be out there much more than the general population.

But the forum is rife with conflicting responses. In a thread about recent assaults by pretend cops, they'll give the advice about finding a safer place to stop. In a thread about failing to stop for an unmarked car, they'll bag on the driver/rider for not stopping right away.

That's a pretty good answer Bounce. Just remember that a lot of the cops that are active in "officer" forums are bordering on not being right in the head. Just like this forum, there are a lot of tools saying things that are either blatently stupid and wrong, or just misconstrued. For most of us, being a cop is a job. For some, being a cop is their entire life. Those guys concern me. I say this with a grain of salt, because I worked internet crimes for a few years and cringed everytime I got a case involving some guy that was a cop or claimed to be a cop. This is still the internet.

That being said, people buying lights and running around acting like cops does happen. It does not happen with much frequency. We had a guy in Albuquerque doing it on a large scale just a while back, and he was caught. Other than him, its pretty in-frequent. What does happen is someone will break into a cop car and take a raid vest or jacket and then that guy and his buddys will crash a drug dealer's house pretending to be cops and steal money and drugs. But...People taking the time and money to equip cars with lights just to pull people over...There's a lot of risk involved in that.

So...The CSI guy was totally within his rights to pull Synthian over. Just because we get moved from a division like patrol to something like CSI does not mean we are not still cops. A lot of our SWAT guys are homicide/violent crimes detectives. I have been off patrol for 6 years and I still stop lots of people with my unmarked car. I issue lots of citations too. As far as the "certified" speedo...Yup. Every manufacturer that makes a "police vehicle" installs a "certified speedometer." What that means is the speedo is accurate to within 2mph (+/- 2mph). Unlike our FJRs and your Honda accords that are a little optomistic. We verify our speedo readings with radar and we only use OEM sized tires, so there is no reason for them to lose calibration. IF we end up having a tranny replaced or something like that, we have to send the car off for re-calibration.

As ChecksWrecks said...Judges love "pace" citations. I have yet to find a court that does not allow our speedometer reading as perfect evidence of speeding.

So...Who makes police cars? Well, Ford makes the CrownVictoria and the Expedition and the Explorer for police duty. I know we have some Fusions with lights running around, but I donno if those are "police packages" or just govenment cars equipped with lights. Equipping a non-police package car with police lights voids the warranty, so I donno if they did that or not.

Dodge makes the Charger, and Chevy makes the Impala and the Tahoe. For the most part, most cops with the ability to pull someone over will be driving one of these cars: CrownVic, Expedition, Explorer, Charger, Impala, or Tahoe, and depending on what state you are in, they may have an obvious "Government" plate.

As far as stopping when you see lights...Here is the deal in NM: Statute says that when a person sees red flashing lights behind them, they will pull to the right and stop. Immediately. We cite for people that don't do that. However, usually that is people that just refuse to move for ambulances, or are purposely trying to be difficult, and most times, it is from a marked unit anwyay. But tell me this...If a cop car comes up from behind you with lights on, how do you know if it is marked or unmarked? All you can see is the hood, and those are very seldom marked. So...We use a degree of what is resonable.

The other day, I pulled a lady over for blowing through a red light in early morning traffic. I have an unmarked Impala and know that the interior lights make some people nervous. So...I waited until after she got on the freeway and turned on my lights so she wouldn't pull over on an on-ramp. She maintained speed, but did not accelerate. She didn't stop for a while. I hit her with the siren a few times and eventually she pulled over. I was wearing "civilian" clothes which consisted of tan BDU pants and a black department polo that showed my badge. I also had my metal badge showing. All I have to be wearing is my badge, and driving an "authorized police vehicle." The tan pants and black polo are division uniforms and are authorized.

When I approached her car, she would not roll the window down and told me she was on the phone with 911. Since I had called out the stop, they verified to her that I was actually a cop. I even showed her my comssion card...The lady ended up getting a warning. She had her head up her butt and didn't even know she had run a light, so she didn't know why I was stopping her. When she saw me, she called 911 and verified I was genuine. What she did not do was speed up, start driving erratically, or do anything stupid.

Those of us driving unmarked cars with interior lights know some people are genuinly concerned but some will not stop just to be difficult. The actions taken by those people are distinctly different. So...My advice? If you are not sure, activate your emergency flashers and slow down a little. Get on the phone and see if 911 knows anything about you being stopped. Even if it is real, they may not, because depending on the agency, you may have the wrong center. Here, if you call 911 wihtin a 10 mile radius of Albuquerque, you will get Albuquerque Police, but it may be Airport Police, Sheriff's Department, State Police, UNM Police or someone else pulling you over. The county lines north and south of Albuquerque are within a couple miles of the city limits and it could be tribal police, or another county all together.

So...Find a decent spot and stop. Let 911 know where you are. Keep your windows rolled up and watch how the officer approaches. Once at the window, ask the officer for a badge and commission card. If they get pissed off or refuse, leave. A real cop will understand and show you his information. DO NOT drive off just because they are in civilian clothes. I have stopped a few people just to tell them something was wrong with their car, and a few times, I have been in jeans and a shirt. Most guys making stops will be wearing a vest though...I always have mine. I also always have a badge visible.

If you're on a bike, just keep your feet on the ground and your hands on the bars. If the guy isn't really a cop, you can accelerate out of there faster than he can chase you.

For the record, Symian left some important things out of his traffic stop story. I25 just north of Tramway is a cluster. They are still doing some sporatic construction and just widened the freeway to three lanes. The speed limit is only 70 and then drops to 65 right about Tramway. There is a lot of traffic, and 85 in that area is unreasonable. It is not out in the middle of nowhere, it is right at the entrance to Albuquerque, and there are lots of dummies and lots of traffic. When I stop people for going 85 through there, they get citations.

 

[exskibum]

Post of the week, 'Zilla. Seriously. :clapping:

Thanks for taking the time to type out that articulate explanation.

 

[HotRodZilla]

My delicate fingers hurt now cuz I wad mad. Im mad that I don't get to drive.a Hummer with a half nekkid hot chick sitting to me all day long. If that was the case, I'd never retire.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Delicate fingers? ****! The time you spend jerking off using jerkins lotion I'd be willing to be your hands are sissified..

 

[k7lvo]

Speedometers on police package cars are certified and tickets can be written based on the speedometer readings. Many courts prefer the speedometer readings over radar or laser.

I don't know how it is now, but some years ago all of the police cars in Washington state had speedometers marked "CERTIFIED." Troopers were required to periodically check the speedometers using the "patrol car" window of a moving radar against the speedometer every 5 mph through a wide range. Every one of these "CERTIFIED" speedometers had a sheet displaying columns marked "displayed" and "actual." And they NEVER matched! So much for "CERTIFIED."

 

[HotRodZilla]

Speedometers on police package cars are certified and tickets can be written based on the speedometer readings. Many courts prefer the speedometer readings over radar or laser.

I don't know how it is now, but some years ago all of the police cars in Washington state had speedometers marked "CERTIFIED." Troopers were required to periodically check the speedometers using the "patrol car" window of a moving radar against the speedometer every 5 mph through a wide range. Every one of these "CERTIFIED" speedometers had a sheet displaying columns marked "displayed" and "actual." And they NEVER matched! So much for "CERTIFIED."

And exactly how do you know this? Did you work for Washington State? Were you the one required to go over the log sheets and decide which cars needed re-calibrated? Did you do something that had anything to do with what you are talking about, or did you "hear" this from someone who "knows?"

If you knew anything about how moving radar works, you would know that EVERY time we measure another cars speed, the unit's displayed speed is checked against the cars certified speedometer to ensure that speed is not being added onto or subtracted from the target car. Lemme explain: If I'm going 60mph in my cop car and I measure a car going 75 going the opposite direction I have to make sure the speedo and the radar match. If the car says I'm going 60 and the radar says I'm only going 55, then that "lost" 5mph will actually be added to the target car. That little math problem works the other way too. FWIW, if the RADAR is not matching the car's speedo on a regular basis, guess which piece of equipment gets sent in for repair first...

Depending on the officer's duty, the exercise you described may get done every day, numerous times a day. I have NEVER seen a speedometer that is off and I have never seen a court or a state agency question the accuracy of their units. Not once, and I have been driving them for 15 years. 10 of those years were spent on patrol where I got assigned to the Traffic unit and issued an average of 20 citations a day. 85% of the cites I issue are speeding cites and I use RADAR, Stopwatch, and pacing. I have been issued 2 Caprices, numerous CrownVics, one Mustang, one Expedition, one Explorer and two Impalas.

Just so you know, I know your comment about Washington state is baloney. How do I know you ask??? I went to "Vehicle Dynamics and Crash Reconstruction" with two guys from WA. One was from Seattle and the other was Washington State Police. We spent 5 weeks together and talked at length about our jobs and court cases. Neither one ever mentioned having to check the certification their car and writing it down. Sorry.

 

[kolonial72]

The best part is that she puts a regulation set of pink handcuffs on the tough guys.

Pink handcuffs FTW!! :lol:

 

[HotRodZilla]

The best part is that she puts a regulation set of pink handcuffs on the tough guys.

Pink handcuffs FTW!! :lol:

Our department actually got a memo forbidding the use of pink handcuffs. Seems a few of the guys and girls were putting them on men that were arrested for beating up their wives and girlfriends. I think one of the studly wife-beaters complained and administration decided that making them walk into jail wearing pink cuffs was degrading. So...They were banned. I'm not sure about the other colors. WTF?? I donno if I would want to walk around with pink handcuffs attached to my butt all night long anyway.

 

[beemerdons]

...I'm not sure about the other colors. WTF?? I donno if I would want to walk around with pink handcuffs attached to my butt all night long anyway.

That's not what HRZ says to Bustanut joker right around Midnight!!! jes' sayin and nuff' said!

 

[HotRodZilla]

...I'm not sure about the other colors. WTF?? I donno if I would want to walk around with pink handcuffs attached to my butt all night long anyway.

That's not what HRZ says to Bustanut joker right around Midnight!!! jes' sayin and nuff' said!

Yeah, but that's different. I never mix business with pleasure :drag: :bad:

 

[k7lvo]

Speedometers on police package cars are certified and tickets can be written based on the speedometer readings. Many courts prefer the speedometer readings over radar or laser.

I don't know how it is now, but some years ago all of the police cars in Washington state had speedometers marked "CERTIFIED." Troopers were required to periodically check the speedometers using the "patrol car" window of a moving radar against the speedometer every 5 mph through a wide range. Every one of these "CERTIFIED" speedometers had a sheet displaying columns marked "displayed" and "actual." And they NEVER matched! So much for "CERTIFIED."

And exactly how do you know this? Did you work for Washington State? Were you the one required to go over the log sheets and decide which cars needed re-calibrated? Did you do something that had anything to do with what you are talking about, or did you "hear" this from someone who "knows?"

If you knew anything about how moving radar works, you would know that EVERY time we measure another cars speed, the unit's displayed speed is checked against the cars certified speedometer to ensure that speed is not being added onto or subtracted from the target car. Lemme explain: If I'm going 60mph in my cop car and I measure a car going 75 going the opposite direction I have to make sure the speedo and the radar match. If the car says I'm going 60 and the radar says I'm only going 55, then that "lost" 5mph will actually be added to the target car. That little math problem works the other way too. FWIW, if the RADAR is not matching the car's speedo on a regular basis, guess which piece of equipment gets sent in for repair first...

Depending on the officer's duty, the exercise you described may get done every day, numerous times a day. I have NEVER seen a speedometer that is off and I have never seen a court or a state agency question the accuracy of their units. Not once, and I have been driving them for 15 years. 10 of those years were spent on patrol where I got assigned to the Traffic unit and issued an average of 20 citations a day. 85% of the cites I issue are speeding cites and I use RADAR, Stopwatch, and pacing. I have been issued 2 Caprices, numerous CrownVics, one Mustang, one Expedition, one Explorer and two Impalas.

Just so you know, I know your comment about Washington state is baloney. How do I know you ask??? I went to "Vehicle Dynamics and Crash Reconstruction" with two guys from WA. One was from Seattle and the other was Washington State Police. We spent 5 weeks together and talked at length about our jobs and court cases. Neither one ever mentioned having to check the certification their car and writing it down. Sorry.

Yes, I did, in fact, work for the Washington State Patrol. For over 13 years I was one of the technicians responsible for maintaining and repairing their radars. (And testifying in court cases. I never lost a case.) That period of time included the decade of the 80's, while you were still in high school, I, too saw Caprices, LTDs, Crown Vics, and Mustangs, (none of which were modified for increased performance, BTW) and, no, speedometers weren't repaired when they were off by a few mph. That was the reason for the calibration sheets, which were redone, for example, when tires were replaced. (The only trooper that I ever saw use a stop watch was in an airplane, and he was good! He could fly the plane and run a bank of stop watches that enabled him to call out 2-3 vehicles' speeds at a time, while timing them over half-mile distances. And, YEAH, I WAS IN THE PLANE AND WATCHED HIM DO IT.) They did spend a lot of time pacing, however, because, back in the "dark ages" there weren't enough radars for every trooper to have one. Some of them even had to use the old stationary radars. Yeah, that's what they used back when you were still in school...

BTW, if the patrol speed on the radar doesn't match up with the speedometer/calibration sheet, it's usually not a defective radar, but RF interference or the like. For example, I was once able to repeat a patrol reading of 15 mph when I ran up on a tanker truck 15 mph faster than it was moving. The radar "saw" the back of the truck, not the "ground." Obviously, I didn't spend a bunch of time "repairing" that radar... Do you still have to listen for clear doppler audio, or has that been automated?

20 citations a day??? You had a good fishing hole? and what about that "protect and serve" thing? Not much time for checking disabled vehicles, elderly people with flat tires, etc... Or, maybe the "do more with less" approach is affecting public service as well as the private sector...

I can just imagine how officers specializing in accident reconstruction, and at a school for the same, would get involved in discussing speedometer certification over a beer in the evening. Your baloney call IS baloney.

Yeah, I've called you on this one. Your attitude and your arrogance totally SUCK! You almost sound like one of the cops you mentioned in one of your other posts. You DO put your pants on one leg at a time, don't you? You maybe even make a mistake from time to time?

OTOH, if you want to dial it back, I have no problem carrying on a reasonable conversation. The ball is in your court.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The best part is that she puts a regulation set of pink handcuffs on the tough guys.

Pink handcuffs FTW!! :lol:

Our department actually got a memo forbidding the use of pink handcuffs. Seems a few of the guys and girls were putting them on men that were arrested for beating up their wives and girlfriends. I think one of the studly wife-beaters complained and administration decided that making them walk into jail wearing pink cuffs was degrading. So...They were banned. I'm not sure about the other colors. WTF?? I donno if I would want to walk around with pink handcuffs attached to my butt all night long anyway.

I guess that memo hasn't arrived here and it'd be a different story if the officer were male. Her regular cuffs are stock issue, while this is an extra pair kept on the turn signal so she can grab them in a hurry if need be. In addition to the psych impact, the color lets folks downstream in processing know to watch the wearer, plus she always gets her own cuffs back.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Yes, I did, in fact, work for the Washington State Patrol. For over 13 years I was one of the technicians responsible for maintaining and repairing their radars. (And testifying in court cases. I never lost a case.) That period of time included the decade of the 80's, while you were still in high school, I, too saw Caprices, LTDs, Crown Vics, and Mustangs, (none of which were modified for increased performance, BTW) and, no, speedometers weren't repaired when they were off by a few mph. That was the reason for the calibration sheets, which were redone, for example, when tires were replaced. (The only trooper that I ever saw use a stop watch was in an airplane, and he was good! He could fly the plane and run a bank of stop watches that enabled him to call out 2-3 vehicles' speeds at a time, while timing them over half-mile distances. And, YEAH, I WAS IN THE PLANE AND WATCHED HIM DO IT.) They did spend a lot of time pacing, however, because, back in the "dark ages" there weren't enough radars for every trooper to have one. Some of them even had to use the old stationary radars. Yeah, that's what they used back when you were still in school...

BTW, if the patrol speed on the radar doesn't match up with the speedometer/calibration sheet, it's usually not a defective radar, but RF interference or the like. For example, I was once able to repeat a patrol reading of 15 mph when I ran up on a tanker truck 15 mph faster than it was moving. The radar "saw" the back of the truck, not the "ground." Obviously, I didn't spend a bunch of time "repairing" that radar... Do you still have to listen for clear doppler audio, or has that been automated?

20 citations a day??? You had a good fishing hole? and what about that "protect and serve" thing? Not much time for checking disabled vehicles, elderly people with flat tires, etc... Or, maybe the "do more with less" approach is affecting public service as well as the private sector...

I can just imagine how officers specializing in accident reconstruction, and at a school for the same, would get involved in discussing speedometer certification over a beer in the evening. Your baloney call IS baloney.

Yeah, I've called you on this one. Your attitude and your arrogance totally SUCK! You almost sound like one of the cops you mentioned in one of your other posts. You DO put your pants on one leg at a time, don't you? You maybe even make a mistake from time to time?

OTOH, if you want to dial it back, I have no problem carrying on a reasonable conversation. The ball is in your court.

Haha...Ok, I'll back down a hair. But in all fairness to me, 1980 is like a bazillion years ago. I don't even know any cops that old. I didn't graduate highschool until 1990, and crappy 1980's American cars have very little to do with anything from the last 20 years.

So...On the baloney call, believe it or not, that's what ******* cops talk about during 5 weeks of stuff related to determining speed. It probably started with what RADAR units we were using and the new (back then) leads that Kustom was putting out to connect the RADAR unit to the cars speedometer module. Donno if you have seen those, but they are cool. If there is too much of a difference between the car's indicated speed and the RADARs measured speed, it wont display a target speed.

That reduces some of the inherent operator error, like picking up the back of a semi instead of the road. Donno when you left, but the newer same-lane units eliminated a lot of the shadowing or ghosting so many guys complained about years ago.

And yes, we still use audible dopplar. Audible is/has been part of the tracking history since before me. Display has to match speed estimate and audible has to match display. Donno how they'd automate that, but I'm sure someday...

Im not trying to be arrogant or be an ***, I'm just a grumpy ******* lately due to a sudden influx of too many people that have been watching CSI, so for that I apologize. Court cases from 8 and 9 years ago have been popping up and attorneys are losing their minds.

Like you, I haven't lost a case yet based on my testimony, but jurys are funny things and sometimes they look for reasons. Mostly my stuff gets stipulated to because of the pre-trials, but they look for other reasons to boot a case.

So...20 citations a day was from when I was assigned to Traffic and unless there was a good crash, all I had to do was write tickets. Where I worked, a lot of cars were good for 2-3 cites each...And I was working 10-15 hours a day. It was fun, paid good, and I didn't have kids, so I wrote lots of tickets, made lots of arrests and spent lots of time in court. It was still pretty easy to change a flat or two. Even though I used some stationary and some laser, I prefer moving RADAR, so I didn't issue "unfair" or BS cites.

FWIW, I have never seen anyone use an actual stopwatch. Kustom Golden Eagles sport a stopwatch mode that takes all the manual labor out of it. Pick a measured distance, enter that into the unit and hit the button when the car enters and exits. Instant speed with no radar signal.

So...Obviously things change over time and in the last 16 years, I have never seen one of our speedos be off. Not even after a tire change.